Naked Science Forum
General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Jolly2 on 22/04/2021 02:41:16
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Need some help with the maths.
There are 0.6% trans people in America.
So does that mean the trans gender pay gap is something like for every dollar a cis women earns a trans women earns half a cent?
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It means for every 1,000 women, 6 of them are trans.
Pay rate is not included in the data.
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It means for every 1,000 women, 6 of them are trans.
Pay rate is not included in the data.
There are more trans women then men generally but the 0.6 is for both gender changes.
The numbers are configured as an aggregate. So it's the earnings of 1000 women compared to the earning of say 5 trans women in total, that's how the gender pay gap is figured, no wonder they never talk about the teans gender pay gap
Looks like the trans gender wage gap is worse then half a cent for every dollar a women earns. Probably more like trans people earn 0.01 of a cent for every dollar a cis women earns.
Maybe we should encourage Jeff Bezos to change gender it would end the gender pay gap over night and seriously improve the trans gender stats. And all he would have to do is add women to his facebook profile.
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cis
Does this mean normal?
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Cis is the opposite of trans.
What is "normal" for one person is abnormal for another. I guess Petrochemicals hasn't realised that yet.
The fraction of the population who are trans has essentially nothing to do with the gender pay gap.
It's not clear why Jolly thinks they are related.
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So it's the earnings of 1000 women compared to the earning of say 5 trans women in total, that's how the gender pay gap is figured,
No it is not.
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I don't know about the USA, but there is no pay gap in the UK: it is illegal to pay anyone more or less for the same work. There is however a significant earnings gap because fewer women work full time or occupy the highest-paid jobs.
It is interesting to note that, according to Treasury statistics, women favour substantially less risky investments (e.g. cash ISAs) than men (who prefer stocks and shares ISAs). Nothing to do with marketing or discrimination - the banks will sell anyone whatever they want - but apparently inherent psychology. This may explain the top earnings gap: you have to speculate to accumulate.
Might also explain the preponderance of M → F transitions: it's a big commitment with lots of risk.
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Nothing to do with marketing or discrimination
Prove it.
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This may explain the top earnings gap
You do know that the research shows that it's largely due to prejudice, don't you?
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So it's the earnings of 1000 women compared to the earning of say 5 trans women in total, that's how the gender pay gap is figured, no wonder they never talk about the teans gender pay gap
Looks like the trans gender wage gap is worse then half a cent for every dollar a women earns. Probably more like trans people earn 0.01 of a cent for every dollar a cis women earns.
Again, that's not how that works. If there are ten people working a given job, where nine are men and one is a woman, that does not translate into the woman making ten percent as much per hour as one of the men would.
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Nothing to do with marketing or discrimination
Prove it.
https://personal.natwest.com/personal/investments/natwest-invest.html is a fairly typical advert for popular investment schemes from one of the largest banks. I can't see how it is targeted to encourage men to invest in stocks and shares and women to invest in cash ISAs. https://www.barclays.co.uk/investments/ is another big player. If you can point out the bias or discrimination, please do so.
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Nothing to do with marketing or discrimination
Prove it.
https://personal.natwest.com/personal/investments/natwest-invest.html is a fairly typical advert for popular investment schemes from one of the largest banks. I can't see how it is targeted to encourage men to invest in stocks and shares and women to invest in cash ISAs. https://www.barclays.co.uk/investments/ is another big player. If you can point out the bias or discrimination, please do so.
You seem to have muddled cause and effect.
Did it not occur to you that a lifetime of being told that risk taking was "masculine" or "unladylike" would lead to the observed investment purchasing bias?
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This may explain the top earnings gap
You do know that the research shows that it's largely due to prejudice, don't you?
I wouldn't be surprised if the "research " showed it, but I don't know it.
Interestingly, the CEO of Nat West Bank (see above) is female, along with the monarch, the last prime minister, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and two of the last five heads of MI5. AFAIK they all earn the same salary (adjusted for inflation) as their male predecessors.
Away from the public sector, where prejudice might be expected to have some influence on career progress, your earnings depend on your willingness to take risks, or what the public is prepared to pay to watch you do your "thing", so prejudice is no bar to high earnings. Entrepreneurs rather than employees will be found at the top of the earnings table, and also at the bottom.
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a lifetime of being told
By whom? Queen Victoria has been dead for 120 years! Nobody discouraged my nephew's girlfriend from being a fighter pilot, Pauline Cutting from practising surgery in war zones, or my neighbor from living with a family of gorillas. Oddly, I don't know many blokes who put their lives on the line to the same extent, though said nephew is a test pilot for parachutes....but he's probably insane.
One son has taught what we used to call "civics" to 6th-formers. I don't recall him telling the girls not to invest in stocks and shares: "Banking and investments" was taught to the entire class at once, as it was in my primary school days.
I recall a language teacher explaining gendered nouns to a rowdy mob "Boys and girls are different, and the French and Germans take it to extremes that are considered unbecoming in English."
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So it's the earnings of 1000 women compared to the earning of say 5 trans women in total, that's how the gender pay gap is figured, no wonder they never talk about the teans gender pay gap
Looks like the trans gender wage gap is worse then half a cent for every dollar a women earns. Probably more like trans people earn 0.01 of a cent for every dollar a cis women earns.
Again, that's not how that works. If there are ten people working a given job, where nine are men and one is a woman, that does not translate into the woman making ten percent as much per hour as one of the men would.
Unfortunately that is how the gender pay gap work it's the difference between all the pay of women employed compared to all the pay of men. That's how feminists calculated it. As an aggregate, which is why feminists groups like the Factual feminists lead by Christina Hoff Sommers have been arguing the suggested pay gap isn't real and is explained because women generally work In lowering paying areas like teaching or choose to spend more time with friends then working every hour of the day as men often do. You can find plenty of examples of Christina Hoff Summers arguments if you search.
cis
Does this mean normal?
Cis is a term used by some to denote a person who accepts the gender of the sex they were born with. So a man who was born Male or a women born female would be cis.
CIS comes from latin and is a prefix for 'on this side of' as trans is a prefix of the opposite side.
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Cis is the opposite of trans.
What is "normal" for one person is abnormal for another. I guess Petrochemicals hasn't realised that yet.
The fraction of the population who are trans has essentially nothing to do with the gender pay gap.
It's not clear why Jolly thinks they are related.
I think mr chemist might be arguing that trans women are not really women.
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A perfectly valid argument, and one that is seriously exercising the world of sport. However hard you try, your fat/muscle ratio at peak fitness remains decidedly masculine and even if you pile on the fat for a Sumo contest, your upper body strength remains greater than for a woman of the same weight. There is serious talk of introducing new classes of competition, two based on XY chromosome counts and a third "open" class for anyone who fancies a go.
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your earnings depend on your willingness to take risks,
LOL
Every day Boris takes the risk that someone will point out that he's a liar and that... nothing will be done about it.
There is no risk.
The worst that happens is he gets voted out and gets a job as an "advisor".
Well none of his advice while in office was worth squat so...
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I think mr chemist might be arguing that trans women are not really women.
No, he's not saying that at all.
People looked for a word to mean the opposite of trans.
And the chemists already had one, so people who aren't trans are cis.
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women generally work In lowering paying areas like teaching
So, the prejudice is (as it has been for a couple of hundred years) that teaching isn't a "proper" job, so it's poorly paid.
If it was a real job then men would "have to" do it.
Again, you are muddling cause and effect.
It's not women who chose that teaching (and nursing) should be poorly paid.
On the other hand, it is broadly men who decided that politics should be well paid.
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Cis is a term used by some to denote a person who accepts the gender of the sex they were born with. So a man who was born Male or a women born female would be cis.
CIS comes from latin and is a prefix for 'on this side of' as trans is a prefix of the opposite side.
So normal. CIS is a term invented by and used by the transexual community. Limey is used by Americans to refer to British people, but being as I am not American I am not party to the use of the term.
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So normal. CIS is a term invented by
What's with the CAPITAL LETTERS?
Do you mean this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States
a term invented by and used by the transexual community.
No
Since the fool has set his software to ignore me, Petrochem doesn't receive broadcasts from planet Earth.
Could someone quote this please?
That way he might learn.
People looked for a word to mean the opposite of trans.
And the chemists already had one, so people who aren't trans are cis.
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Cis has meant "same" and trans has meant "opposite" since the Romans decided to write in Latin.
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Every day Boris takes the risk that someone will point out that he's a liar and that... nothing will be done about it.
In fact, politics is a high-risk occupation. You may be elected in a by-election, serve 6 months, and lose your seat at a general election through no fault of your own. Ministers are selected and deselected on the whim of whoever has control of the prime minister's scrotum, and whether you are regarded as a charming rogue or an utter bastard depends on how much the editor of the Daily Mail had to drink last night. Survival in office depends entirely on the fact that the alternative is even worse.
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Cis has meant "same" and trans has meant "opposite" since the Romans decided to write in Latin.
I don't think the Romans where so particular, if the emperors where anything to go by. Prey tell Allinicus, whatus beus theus termusesessss forii sistershaggus or slaveussexussseiii?
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Ministers are selected and deselected on the whim of whoever has control of the prime minister's scrotum,
Things are looking up. You have realised you were wrong to say this
your earnings depend on your willingness to take risks,
Cis has meant "same" and trans has meant "opposite" since the Romans decided to write in Latin.
Aside from the Catholic Church, nobody still writes in Latin.
So that's not where the terms "cis" and "trans" as used in this context are from, is it?
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Oh yes it is. Not only via chemistry and crystallography where the prefixes are in common use, but cisalpine and transalpine turn up in geography. Also cislateral and translateral in medicine (particularly neurology) and biology. Translate, transpire, transilluminate, transparent....all mean "across" but the opposite is rarely needed. When working in Bradford, I was once invited to visit a client in Transpontine Halifax but I think he was showing off. Et quis non latina dicet hodie? Cur scriptum italicum extet?
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the prefixes are in common use
And the point you have missed is that, in chemistry they aren't prefixes- they are words.
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I think he was showing off. Et quis non latina dicet hodie? Cur scriptum italicum extet?
Irony; much.
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Quote from: alancalverd on Yesterday at 22:27:37
Ministers are selected and deselected on the whim of whoever has control of the prime minister's scrotum,
Things are looking up. You have realised you were wrong to say this
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/04/2021 23:17:56
your earnings depend on your willingness to take risks,
I think my statements are entirely consistent. Ministerial posts attract an additional £67,505 on top of an MP's stipend, but you have to take a chance on who the PM will be shagging (or being shagged by) next week if you take out a loan on the basis of total earnings.
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the prefixes are in common use
And the point you have missed is that, in chemistry they aren't prefixes- they are words.
cis-2-butene, trans-2-butene. Prefixes. quod erat demonstrandum.
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Since I didn't say they couldn't be used as prefixes that was a waste of a post or two.
I said they could be used as words.
Anyone for trans fats?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat#Trans_fat
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Quote from: alancalverd on Yesterday at 22:27:37
Ministers are selected and deselected on the whim of whoever has control of the prime minister's scrotum,
Things are looking up. You have realised you were wrong to say this
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/04/2021 23:17:56
your earnings depend on your willingness to take risks,
I think my statements are entirely consistent. Ministerial posts attract an additional £67,505 on top of an MP's stipend, but you have to take a chance on who the PM will be shagging (or being shagged by) next week if you take out a loan on the basis of total earnings.
If someone says " I might pay you another 80% of your salary for a while- until Boris changes his mind; do you want to accept it?" there is no risk in saying yes.
The "worst" that can happen is that you don't keep your bonus for long.
And if you get blown out, you can always get a non job as an advisor which will pay even more.
There's no risk.
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Unfortunately that is how the gender pay gap work it's the difference between all the pay of women employed compared to all the pay of men. That's how feminists calculated it.
Source?
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Cis is a term used by some to denote a person who accepts the gender of the sex they were born with. So a man who was born Male or a women born female would be cis.
CIS comes from latin and is a prefix for 'on this side of' as trans is a prefix of the opposite side.
So normal. CIS is a term invented by and used by the transexual community. Limey is used by Americans to refer to British people, but being as I am not American I am not party to the use of the term.
Well I dont think the people that created the terminology wanted to Express negative connotations but it is the case that some in the trans activists community use CIS as a slur. Cis is bad, cis and white worse, cis white and Male is effectively Hilter, for some.
They want to smash the CIStem 😊
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Well I dont think the people that created the terminology wanted to Express negative connotations but it is the case that some in the trans activists community use CIS as a slur. Cis is bad, cis and white worse, cis white and Male is effectively Hilter, for some.
Source?
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Unfortunately that is how the gender pay gap work it's the difference between all the pay of women employed compared to all the pay of men. That's how feminists calculated it.
Source?
Why are you asking for a source I already referenced the factual feminists and I'm not allowed to share links.
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I already referenced the factual feminists
Where?
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women generally work In lowering paying areas like teaching
So, the prejudice is (as it has been for a couple of hundred years) that teaching isn't a "proper" job, so it's poorly paid.
If it was a real job then men would "have to" do it.
Again, you are muddling cause and effect.
It's not women who chose that teaching (and nursing) should be poorly paid.
On the other hand, it is broadly men who decided that politics should be well paid.
Its broadly politicians that decided politicians should be paid well.
As for teaching compared to other forms of employment, public schools are funded by government, I'm sure teachers in private schools earn a lot more money. But also other areas of employment are directly related to sales of products and services they produce, it's a different economic which allows for greater returns.
Besides many consider there time at school wasted and a mistake education
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Well I dont think the people that created the terminology wanted to Express negative connotations but it is the case that some in the trans activists community use CIS as a slur. Cis is bad, cis and white worse, cis white and Male is effectively Hilter, for some.
They want to smash the CIStem 😊
They are quite free to use the term, as I say' limey ' ' John Bull' are terms Americans use for the British, particularly the English, I don't use them as I am not a 'Yank', which is a term to describe Americans by non Americans. Yankee being different as it is a term for those on the winning side of the civil war.
term - a word or expression used in relation to a particular subject, often to describe something official or technical
https://www.dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/term
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Why are you asking for a source I already referenced the factual feminists and I'm not allowed to share links.
Not allowed to share links? Was that a part of the conditions under which you were allowed back?
Anyway, this is how the wage gaps are actually calculated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap#Calculation
The non-adjusted gender pay gap, or gender wage gap is typically the median or mean average difference between the remuneration for all working men and women in the sample chosen. It is usually represented as either a percentage or a ratio of the "difference between average gross hourly [or annual] earnings of male and female employees as % of male gross earnings".
It's about comparing averages, not totals.
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Why are you asking for a source I already referenced the factual feminists and I'm not allowed to share links.
Not allowed to share links? Was that a part of the conditions under which you were allowed back?
No I think it was just extra punishment for telling jokes.
Anyway, this is how the wage gaps are actually calculated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap#Calculation
The non-adjusted gender pay gap, or gender wage gap is typically the median or mean average difference between the remuneration for all working men and women in the sample chosen. It is usually represented as either a percentage or a ratio of the "difference between average gross hourly [or annual] earnings of male and female employees as % of male gross earnings".
It's about comparing averages, not totals.
As the factual feminists point out when you actually adjust for hours worked, type of career, and lifestyle choice the wage gap disappears. It's still an aggregate of all working men and women. mean or mode average?