Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 15:45:51

Title: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 15:45:51
It is believed that when light lands on an object the object becomes visible due to reflection but this may not be what is happening. I propose that what is believed to be reflected light is possibly a secondary phenomenon of reactivated electrons on the surface of the object its self. Light is one of many less understood natural occurrences and can be as difficult to comprehend as gravity, space or time. Light its self is produced by electromagnetic radiation stemming from its original source the humble electron I believe that the transformation of an electron to a photon is reversed as the photon lands on an object and stimulates the electrons at the surface reproducing photons. So in conclusion, reflection NO, activation YES. Objects can produce their own light from the outside just as glow worms and many other creatures can produce chemically stimulated light from within. Any thoughts on this new theory?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 16:19:36
Light its self is produced by electromagnetic radiation

Light isn't produced by electromagnetic radiation: it is a form of electromagnetic radiation.

I believe that the transformation of an electron to a photon

Electrons cannot become photons, as that would violate conservation of charge (unless they annihilate with a positron).
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 16:35:54
Light isn't produced by electromagnetic radiation: it is a form of electromagnetic radiation.[/quot
Light isn't produced by electromagnetic radiation: it is a form of electromagnetic radiation.
A photon is electromagnetic radiation and that is where light comes from if the light does not come from electrons and electromagnetic radiation that is producing photons then I'm in the dark.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 16:51:04
Photons are electromagnetic radiation (the smallest possible quantity of electromagnetic radiation, to be precise).
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 16:57:46
Photons are electromagnetic radiation (the smallest possible quantity of electromagnetic radiation, to be precise).
Now we are getting somewhere so what about the theory I have put forward pretty good don't you think.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 17:00:54
Now we are getting somewhere so what about the theory I have put forward pretty good don't you think.

What do you think reflection is, exactly? What do you think is happening on the quantum level?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 17:14:07
What do you think reflection is, exactly? What do you think is happening on the quantum level?
This is the theory I don't think that it is a reflection I think the object is producing its own light from its surface due to being stimulated by photons that land and produce a glow from the electrons on the surface of the object.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 17:15:00
This is the theory I don't think that it is a reflection I think the object is producing its own light from its surface due to being stimulated by photons that land and produce a glow from the electrons on the surface of the object.

No, I mean, what do you think modern science's explanation is for reflection at the quantum level?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 17:19:18
No, I mean, what do you think modern science's explanation is for reflection at the quantum level?
I must say I'm a bit confused with this question but I assume it is the same thing. What is it that science is reported to be reflecting at a quantum level?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 17:39:29
I think the object is producing its own light from its surface due to being stimulated by photons that land and produce a glow from the electrons on the surface of the object.
What is the difference between that and reflection?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 17:44:50
What is the difference between that and reflection?
A reflection would be the same photon bouncing back my theory suggests that it is a newly produced photon that is returning from the object.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 19:11:41
What is the difference between that and reflection?
A reflection would be the same photon bouncing back my theory suggests that it is a newly produced photon that is returning from the object.
How could you tell?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 19:21:41
How could you tell?
Now that is a very good question and I'm very glad you have asked. We will have to manufacture a device that we will call a, new photon created light Spectrum analyzer machine I will leave that part for your very competent self to deliver.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 20:01:01
How could you tell?
Now that is a very good question and I'm very glad you have asked. We will have to manufacture a device that we will call a, new photon created light Spectrum analyzer machine I will leave that part for your very competent self to deliver.
OK.
There aren't many things you can measure about light, but the wavelength is one of them
Ordinarily, if you measure the light before and after it hits a mirror the wavelength is unchanged.

But if the mirror is moving, the light is doppler shifted.
What does that tell you?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 20:07:02
But if the mirror is moving, the light is doppler shifted.
What does that tell you?
That would mean that the light coming of the mirror is moving towards or away from the doppler tester machine.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 20:16:57
It has to be going towards the machine- or it wouldn't get there to be tested.
And, relativity says it is traveling at the speed of light.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 20:25:07
It has to be going towards the machine- or it wouldn't get there to be tested.
And, relativity says it is traveling at the speed of light.
My apologies I meant to say that the source of light is moving towards or away not the light its self to give a doppler effect.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 21:08:51
Well, if the light bulb is staying still, the mirror is moving and the light is doppler shifted, is that light coming from the mirror or the lamp?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 21:16:25
If the bulb is still and the mirror is moving and you get a doppler shift the light is coming from the mirror.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 21:35:03
We will have to manufacture a device that we will call a, new photon created light Spectrum analyzer machine I will leave that part for your very competent self to deliver.

The two photons should be identical, so such a device cannot be built.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 21:43:11
The two photons should be identical, so such a device cannot be built.
I think you may be correct that's why Bored chemist is thinking doppler but that may prove very difficult.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 21:50:45
We will have to manufacture a device that we will call a, new photon created light Spectrum analyzer machine I will leave that part for your very competent self to deliver.

The two photons should be identical, so such a device cannot be built.
Watch this space...
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 21:52:08
Watch this space...

Was I wrong? If so, I'm willing to be corrected.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 21:53:27
If the bulb is still and the mirror is moving and you get a doppler shift the light is coming from the mirror.
So, what's the difference between reflection- which changes the wavelength of the waves and  creation of a new photon- with a new wavelength?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: trevorjohnson32 on 17/08/2021 21:53:46
Light is a wave, no photon, that's just theory. A wave is a denser part of a medium spreading outward to a less dense part of that medium, so light has space-time as its medium, so light is space.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 21:55:48
Light is a wave, no photon, that's just theory.

Ignoring the fact that "just a theory" is not a bad thing when it comes to science...

Photons are quite well documented. We can detect them. We know they are there.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 22:04:46
So, what's the difference between reflection- which changes the wavelength of the waves and  creation of a new photon- with a new wavelength?
I find the question difficult to understand but I can say this if the mirror is moving towards the doppler detector and we get a blue shift it just means the light is being compressed and the opposite for the redshift. I think the big problem with using a mirror to detect any shift is that the mirror would have to be moving very fast to see any noticeable change in pattern.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: trevorjohnson32 on 17/08/2021 22:19:31
Light is a wave, no photon, that's just theory.

Ignoring the fact that "just a theory" is not a bad thing when it comes to science...

Photons are quite well documented. We can detect them. We know they are there.
what shape is a photon is it like a long french fry?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 22:21:22
what shape is a photon is it like a long french fry?

As best as we can tell, it's shaped like either a wave or a point (depending on the measurement method).
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 22:32:51
Light is a wave, no photon, that's just theory. A wave is a denser part of a medium spreading outward to a less dense part of that medium, so light has space-time as its medium, so light is space.
Be quiet; the grown ups are talking.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 22:34:55
So, what's the difference between reflection- which changes the wavelength of the waves and  creation of a new photon- with a new wavelength?
I find the question difficult to understand but I can say this if the mirror is moving towards the doppler detector and we get a blue shift it just means the light is being compressed and the opposite for the redshift. I think the big problem with using a mirror to detect any shift is that the mirror would have to be moving very fast to see any noticeable change in pattern.
It's pretty much a rhetorical question.
I don't think there is a way in which we could distinguish the way that modern physics treats the reflection of light from the idea of the photons conveying their  energy to the electrons and then the energy being re-emitted.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 17/08/2021 22:35:34
Be quiet; the grown ups are talking.

Mind your manners, please...
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 22:37:13
I think the big problem with using a mirror to detect any shift is that the mirror would have to be moving very fast to see any noticeable change in pattern.
Well... radar speed traps work just fine.

It's also possible to accelerate a bunch of plasma to a very high speed, and reflect light off it.
You get a doppler shift.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 22:49:18
Well... radar speed traps work just fine.

It's also possible to accelerate a bunch of plasma to a very high speed, and reflect light off it.
You get a doppler shift.
I think the speed camera is measuring the change in distance of the moving vehicle over time not the same type of shift. The plasma method may be the answer if that is possible.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/08/2021 23:03:02
I think the speed camera is measuring the change in distance of the moving vehicle over time not the same type of shift.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_speed_gun#Doppler_effect
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 23:24:30
Quote from: Just thinking on Today at 07:49:18

    I think the speed camera is measuring the change in distance of the moving vehicle over time not the same type of shift.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_speed_gun#Doppler_effect
It seems to be the case if I am correct that would mean that the radar device can measure 1 billionth of the speed of light and if so that is sensitive enuff to detect a change of one kilometre per hour. My apology for douting.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 17/08/2021 23:39:50
The problem with measuring a return signal whether it is light of a mirror or radar of a target is that whether the return signal is a deflection or a newly created photon is that it will return with the same response either way so nothing can be learned by this method but if so how?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/08/2021 08:50:15
The problem with measuring a return signal whether it is light of a mirror or radar of a target is that whether the return signal is a deflection or a newly created photon is that it will return with the same response either way so nothing can be learned by this method but if so how?
What you learn is that there is no difference.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 18/08/2021 09:46:47
What you learn is that there is no difference.
It sounds like it would be difficult if not impossible to confirm.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/08/2021 10:47:13
If there is no way, even in principle, to tell the difference between two things then are they actually different?
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 18/08/2021 16:00:35
If there is no way, even in principle, to tell the difference between two things then are they actually different?
If one photon is replaced with another at the speed of light it will be very difficult to tell but yet they are different.
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: trevorjohnson32 on 18/08/2021 23:15:48
A shaded a day

One day
Bored chemist say
ADULTS ARE TALKING
ABOUT PHOTON RAYS!
but the waves
came in
and bored chemist
starts to spin
and says
if only water waves
were particle too
then I could BS
may way through
these waves
these waves
good day!

Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Kryptid on 18/08/2021 23:36:28
A shaded a day

One day
Bored chemist say
ADULTS ARE TALKING
ABOUT PHOTON RAYS!
but the waves
came in
and bored chemist
starts to spin
and says
if only water waves
were particle too
then I could BS
may way through
these waves
these waves
good day!

I warned you against spamming like this. For that reason, expect to be given a "vacation".
Title: Re: A new way of seeing light
Post by: Just thinking on 19/08/2021 12:11:41
It's pretty much a rhetorical question.
I don't think there is a way in which we could distinguish the way that modern physics treats the reflection of light from the idea of the photons conveying their  energy to the electrons and then the energy being re-emitted.
It's pretty much a rhetorical question.
I don't think there is a way in which we could distinguish the way that modern physics treats the reflection of light from the idea of the photons conveying their  energy to the electrons and then the energy being re-emitted.
I think I can see how I may be wrong if a beam of light hits a mirror and the mirror is at an angle to the beam how could a new photon continue on the diverted angle not only would a new photon be created but it would have to stay on the same course this seems contradictive to the nature of directed light.