The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?  (Read 233744 times)

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« on: 03/08/2006 23:18:12 »
Quote
Maternal Dietary Risk Factors in Childhood Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia (United States)
Jensen CD, Block G, Buffler P, Ma X, Selvin S, Month S.

...
Abstract

Objective:   Acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) is the most common childhood cancer, and the second most common cause of mortality in children aged 114 years. Recent research has established that the disease can originate in utero, and thus maternal diet may be an important risk factor for ALL.

Cancer Causes Control. 2004 Aug;15(6):559-70.    http://www.springerlink.com/content/t87661x864l14368/fulltext.pdf


Is vitamin D deficiency in childhood leukemia an underestimated reality?
Could cod liver oil - the old remedy, a relic from the past - help in the
empirically arranged but clinically effective today's treatment protocols?

Regards,

Enrico Incarbone MD
(Lucky father of an ALL survivor)


ALL: Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia (common type: 65-75% alive after 5 years)


Unable to evoke the interest of local colleagues, I am sending this message through the Web.

Quote
I meant to discuss about Evidence Based Medicine or Patient Oriented Decisions...

It's about whether to strongly and officially recommend a nontoxic nutrient when data to prove its efficacy are still unconfirmed.
In the case of a disease of unknown cause and poor treatment results (2/3)...unsatisfactory results, or 'suboptimal' if you prefer.

It's Philosophy of Science and practical medicine altogether

ikod  [^] 

                   thanks to the >100000 viewers!


To support this one I started a special
"Cod Liver Oil" topic in Complementary Medicine.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=5065.0

You are kindly invited to read and discuss both topics.

iko




Key words:  nutrition leukemia diet cod liver oil vitamin

Parole chiave:  nutrizione dieta leucemia linfoblastica olio di fegato di merluzzo vitamine




I can't tell you how many times I've came back to this topic and read postings over and over. I still haven't read it all yet! I can only thank you for being here and for sharing your knowledge and thoughts.

"A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle."

Kahlil Gibran

Thank you dqfry!
This thread started with a question for young scientists and open-minded medical students*:

Quote

Is vitamin D deficiency in childhood leukaemia an underestimated reality?
Could cod liver oil - the old remedy, a relic from the past - help in the
empirically arranged but clinically effective today's treatment protocols?


The aim was to make some smart girl/boy cross "cod liver oil" and "leukemia" on PubMed database and find the old 1988 "Shanghai report".
Then we would have discussed the opportunity to give some "cod" to leukemic patients.
Your totally unexpected, dramatic, precious contribution fixed the limits of this issue, proving, at the same time, that our message is reachable by parents and patients.
They are -in the end- the real target of this topic.

ikod

*a young scientist!

"the Shanghai Report":  http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/112672783/PDFSTART






We know from the 'Shanghai report' that daily doses of vitamins A and D (actually cod liver oil!) -taken for at least one year- could be able to reduce leukemia incidence to half or 1/3.
It's not much, but we (parents) should give it a chance and offer this protection to our sick children, to avert relapse risk.
 



Quote from: iko2006-2008

"Now every evening, everywhere in the world, some parent
is reminding one of the kids to take his 'cod'."

one parent's dream

Parents don't need to ask a doctor or get a prescription
before giving a glass of orange juice and/or
cod liver oil caps to their children,
either they are healthy or sick.


Good NEWS on D-vitamin!!!

Quote

Vitamin D insufficiency in the pediatric oncology population:
defining who is at risk and the need for standardized screening.

M. A. Helou, G. Massey, G. Francis, K. Godder, J. Laver
 
Abstract:
Background: Survivors of childhood cancer are at increased risk for osteoporosis. Contributing factors include direct effects of chemotherapy and radiation therapy on bone, secondary hormone deficiencies, and chronic illness. However, vitamin D insufficiency could be a major risk factor during and after cancer therapy. Vitamin D insufficiency is common in healthy school aged children (median 25-hydroxy vitamin D [25(OH)D] = 28 ng/mL, 55% <30 ng/mL, 5% < 10 ng/mL.) Based on this data, we hypothesize that vitamin D insufficiency would be common among children with cancer. If vitamin D insufficiency is prevalent, correction may contribute to better bone health and immune responses in children with cancer. Methods: We determined the serum levels of 25(OH)D, PTH, calcium, and phosphorus for 40 children with leukemia or lymphoma currently on therapy (group 1), 34 children with leukemia or lymphoma off therapy (group 2), 16 children with solid tumors currently on therapy (group 3), and 10 children with solid tumors off therapy (group 4.) Prevalence of 25(OH)D insufficiency ( <32 ng/mL) and severe deficiency (<10 ng/mL) was compared by Chi square test to the healthy reference population (established by Weng, et al.)
Results: For the majority of patients, calcium and phosphorus levels were within normal limits. Conclusions: Vitamin D insufficiency was very common in all groups, especially in children with solid tumors on therapy (Group 3.) 25(OH)D levels did improve off therapy, but for Group 2, still remained significantly less than normal reference population (p=0.0001.)

The data suggests that vitamin D status should be determined for all children at diagnosis of malignancy with a strong recommendation to consider vitamin D supplementation during treatment and follow up.

J Clin Oncol 26: 2008 (May 20 suppl; abstr 10023)




Something is finally "moving" on the clinical research side...
I hope(dream) that many parents -on the other side- are giving 'cod for more than one year'!

Quote

Unfortunately, if vitamin D is needed mainly, and too much vitamin A is either toxic or counteracting "D" wonderful effects (J.Cannell et al. Nov.2008), we would need a special cod liver oil formula:


a moderate amount of vitamin A, plenty of D-vitamin and lots of omega-3!


This probably WAS the original cod liver oil, before they started removing D-vitamin, erroneously thinking that it was too close to toxic amounts.     Two thousands I.U. per day of vitamin D3 were considered almost toxic for humans.
What a shame: we seem to have destroyed the original formula.






55220
« Last Edit: 27/06/2011 21:18:00 by iko »


 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #1 on: 09/08/2006 22:48:44 »
I will put it in a more interesting way, like a sort of quiz for fresh brains and open-minded medical students that might be interested in this very specific topic.
To make this corner a bit less neglected.


Quote
It could take more than a human life to read everything about human leukaemia, but a few basic answers are still missing...


 
many others plus me


- Using PubMed you find over 190000 citations for "leukaemia" (they were over 120000 in 1999).

- Just one citation crosses "leukaemia" and "cod liver oil".

It's a 1988 old paper with astonishing data that when confirmed, - and they won't be ever confirmed, I am afraid - could have the power of some thousands of those other scientific reports. In practical terms.




Quote
I am not at all sure there is a single cause of leukaemia – why should there be only one cause?
I think it is fairly certain that some leukaemias are caused by viral infections.

another someone

Studying homozygous twins lives from the cradle to the end of life we get lots of data about gene & environment interactions: if a certain disease is due to an inherited genetic defect, the incidence in twins will be much higher than in the general population. If the cause is mostly environmental, the incidence in twins will be similar to the control population.
The risk of leukaemia in identical twins is higher for children, decreasing to normal over 15yrs of age, these observations suggesting that multiple factors responsible for human leukaemia are probably in the environment.

Surely there is not a single cause for leukaemia, and in most cases it is not genetically determined (apart from some toddlers in which genetic damage has been demonstrated looking back at the DNA sampled at birth for screening tests).
In most mammals it is a viral and infectious disease. Feline leukaemia in cats is an easy model: cats get the FeLV bug, develop a flu-like disease and neutralizing antibody to get rid of it. In some animal no antibody comes out (defective immune reaction?), viruses persist for a certain time and damage cell precursors, then a leukaemia or lymphoma start.
In humans it doesn't seem so easy and crystal-clear. Thanks to Bob Gallo HTLVI retrovirus has been found in a small subgroup of human T-cell leukaemias in 1981...He was almost the last researcher who studied new human viruses in leukaemia and so spotted the AIDS retrovirus shortly after.
Epstein Barr Virus (EBV) is perhaps involved in some leukaemia or lymphoma but the mechanisms are still unclear.
Mel Greaves's hypothesis (the last "hit" may be infectious) is quite interesting:
A series of genetic mutations make a cell clone expand a bit too much, then a strong stimulation, an overridden immune response to an infection by a common pathogen (strepto, mycoplasma, adenoviruses, toxoplasma,CMV, EBV, parovirusB19 etc.) leads to sustained growth of the expanded clone and starts bone marrow and organ invasion.
The internal environment ("milieu interieur": infection-inflammation-immunity) around these immature and unstable cells might be fundamental, at least in the initial phases and later on, during the post-therapy so called remission phase. Unfortunately, research in this context is lacking.
The whole interest seems to be on the bad cells themselves (blasts).

iko 

 
Quote
"We had been studying those cells in a bottle for too long,
and forgot to have a look at the original container..."

 Anonymous
« Last Edit: 11/06/2008 18:32:14 by iko »
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #2 on: 10/08/2006 00:53:04 »
Given comments that have been made, from yourself, and I believe quotes from elsewhere, about the relevance of vitamin D to the immune response; I would ask whether you are suggesting that vitamin D deficiency is a primary cause of leukaemia, or whether you are merely suggesting that adequate vitamin D levels can help the immune system fight a latent leukaemia, and that a deficiency in vitamin D is merely causing an impairment of the immune system that might lead to a failure of fighting a  latent leukaemia?



George
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #3 on: 10/08/2006 08:20:36 »
Thank you George, for trying to resuscitate this hypoxic topic!
No primary cause, no major breakthrough or bright discovery...
Just a neglected area of investigation.
If even 1 patient out of 100 benefit from a non-toxic nutritional support, it would be worth trying.
In this "setting" only 65-75% of patients are alive after 5 years.

You have exactly got the point!

quote:

"Vitamin D levels can help the immune system fight a latent leukaemia, and that a deficiency in vitamin D is merely causing an impairment of the immune system that might lead to a failure of fighting a latent leukaemia.."

another_someone




But I didn't have a chance to cite
the 1988 report from Shanghai yet.

For me everything started from there in the summer 1999.

We'll make it step by step (for medical students, I mean).
Bye

iko







Addendum:

Let's have a quick look at the past and more
recent improvements in patients' survival after
standard chemotherapy for childhood leukemia:

Click down here to see the diagram:

http://www.abpi.org.uk/publications/publication_details/targetLeukaemia/details/detail_pg16_b.asp





Improvement in survival after diagnosis of children under 15 with ALL or non-ALL between 1971 and 1997.
Results from the National Registry of Childhood Tumours, provided by the childhood Cancer Research Group, University of Oxford.



from:  Target Leukaemia  website: The Association of British Pharmaceutical Industry
http://www.abpi.org.uk/publications/publication_details/targetLeukaemia/tl-questions.asp


Click on the Image

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4987.0;attach=69;image

Important Note: In the last 5-10 years treatment protocols are practically unchanged.
« Last Edit: 08/07/2011 09:17:58 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #4 on: 11/08/2006 09:55:11 »




Did anybody search for that basic abstract in PubMed?
It doesn't take much...
Enter PubMed database:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed
just write: leukemia and cod liver oil.
then Enter.  and read.
I'll wait. 


PostScriptum:
(yes, I like P.S., no unfair increase in the number of posts! Less chatting-effect in a scientific forum...)
Over the years I learned that it does not pay much to quote a paper, even talking to a distinguished scientist or colleague. I am getting more and more convinced that clever people have to check the facts themselves, analyse data from their own point of view and then think.
Skepticism is a bad beast in a discipline that should be 100% scientific but has got too many "black holes" and unknown things to be so.
You cannot just start with: "Hey folks, there is this 1988 chinese paper that changed my life..."
No way.

iko
« Last Edit: 28/03/2008 22:13:07 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #5 on: 12/08/2006 18:35:46 »
...Taking advantage of this relatively uncrowded topic of the forum,
please allow me to squeeze in a sort of essay (and forgive my italian-english).
In memory of my father and our long discussions about aircraft and medical sciences.


running title:
"The Shanghai Report"


Engineers versus medical doctors: practical application of statistical analysis

...

Engineers (fiction)

…In 1988, analyzing routine maintenance reports related to a particular type of airplane, engineers discover that the aircrafts in which red fluid had been used, had significantly less troubles in the hydraulic system, compared to the ones with blue fluid.  Even the plane that recently crashed had blue fluid, but the causes of that accident didn’t seem related to a hydraulic system failure.  There is no evidence suggesting that red fluid is chemically superior, compared to the other.


After a meeting with all the technical staff, a decision is taken.   A dispatch is immediately sent to all the airliners flying that type of plane with an official recommendation to use red fluid for the hydraulic system.   A technical team working for the company will try to find out all the differences between the two chemicals and solve the problem.   Results will eventually be published in a special Aviation bulletin.



Medical Doctors (reality)

…In 1988 a group of epidemiologists analyze data related to children suffering from different types of leukemia in Shanghai.   Data from a similar group of healthy children are used as reference control. They surprisingly find a significantly lower incidence of leukemia in children taking cod liver oil for more than one year.
A scientific report is sent to a widely known medical journal (Cancer), peer-reviewed, accepted and published after a few weeks.
Strangely enough, a possible therapeutic effect of cod liver oil administration to leukemic children is not even mentioned by the Authors.


Click down here to see the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=3164642&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_DocSum


Cod liver oil contains vitamin A, which has well established positive effects in a particular type of leukemia, and vitamin D3, known to be necessary for bone (marrow?) growth and suspected to be important in controlling immune reactions.
Long term use (more than one year) to reach the protective effect would be feasible in leukemia: most treatment protocols last more than one year and during the 3-5 years after diagnosis the risk of disease relapse is high.
Cod liver oil is considered a nutrient, not a drug: nontoxic at normal dosages, it does not interfere with most of the commonly used pharmaceutical products.  It should be defined 'historically safe', having been extensively used since the beginning of the last century for various ailments (rickets, tuberculosis, etc.).




 
…In 1999 an italian doctor reads the article and decides to get more information writing a letter to the Author (who moved to USA in the meantime).  He basically asks two questions:
 1) are there further studies to confirm a protective effect of cod liver oil?
 2) was the protective effect stronger in older children, suspected to develop leukemia after an overridden immune response to a common pathogen? (Mel Greaves’s hypothesis: “the final hit may be infectious”).
  He gets a kind reply from the Author in a short while, but the content is pretty dismal for human science as a whole.
No further data are available to confirm those results: cod liver oil is not anymore commonly used.  The over ten year old study is unfortunately “buried” in 5 inches diskettes and a detailed revision of those data is almost impossible.


Tricky Note:
The "Shanghai report" is almost unreachable by a rough search through Medline databases. A peculiar text-string: "cod liver oil containing vitamins A and D" makes it impossible to find it out just crossing "leukemia" and "vitamin d"...you have to go for cod liver.

       


Getting close

…In late 1999 a team of Finnish pediatricians investigate bone turn over in children suffering from cancer (40% leukemias) at completion of therapy. They find abnormal data related to calcium and bone metabolism that explain the high incidence of osteoporosis and pathological fractures observed in these patients. Together with calcium, vitamin D is found significantly lower (P<0.0001). These alterations are referred to bone invasion by cancer initially, but most of all to chemotherapy damage later. These Authors suggest to consider a controlled clinical trial to evaluate the possibility of vitamin D and calcium supplementation.


Click down here to see the abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10531569&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

Suprisingly, in 1999, writing from the very same country (Finland) the bright hematologist T.T.Timonen gets published in Ann.Hematol. "A hypothesis concerning deficiency of sunlight, cold temperature, and influenza epidemics associated with the onset of acute lymphoblastic leukemia in northern Finland." In the end of the summary: "is hypothesized that sunlight deprivation in the arctic winter can lead to a deficiency of the 1, 25(OH)2D3 vitamin, which might stimulate leukemic cell proliferation and block cell differentiation through dysregulation of growth factors in the bone marrow stromal cells, causing one mutation and an overt ALL in progenitor cells damaged during the current or the previous winter by influenza virus, the other mutation."

"A hypothesis concerning deficiency of sunlight, cold temperature, and influenza epidemics associated with the onset of acute lymphoblastic leukemia in northern Finland."  by T.T. Timonen, 1999.

Click down here to see the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10525828&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum

...but all this is just supporting Mel Greaves’s hypothesis: “the final hit may be infectious”.
Timonen T.T. actually introduces the concept that vitamin D3 deficiency itself might cause leukemia in some patients.



Closer and closer…

…In 2005 a group of pediatricians in Mansoura, Egypt, investigate bone turnover in 43 children with leukemia. They measure bone mineral density (BMD) and markers of calcium homeostasis (including vitamin D3) at diagnosis, after induction chemotherapy (3months), and during maintenance therapy (12months). They find that osteopenia is a serious problem at presentation and after chemotherapy and it seems to be of the low turnover type. Vitamin D3 is reported significantly lower (P<0.0001) in all patients, lowest at presentation but even later it is rarely close to the half of the control value. They conclude that osteopenia in childhood acute leukemia can get benefit from osteoblastic stimulation by sodium fluoride and vitamin D3, which help mineralization of bone.
The Authors of this astonishing research never suggest that the impressive and persistent vitamin D3 deficiency found in all the children might have been present much before the diagnosis of leukemia.

Click down here to see the abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16085546&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum





...one paragraph missing
(it might sound too much personal
I'll leave it empty for now).

   
http://www.continuingeducation.net/images/caribbean11.gif
Future

...in 2008 at the annual congress of the most famous association for Hematology and Oncology a little group of doctors joining the Childhood Leukemia Conference are celebrating the 20th anniversary of the “Shanghai report”, together with the Authors and a bunch of epidemiologists. Some folks tell funny stories about fishes and make the usual jokes about vitamins.
The first results available are not statistically significant yet (no placebo group, no double blind, it's hard to tell), but patients seem to grow up much better and may be -fingers crossed- have fewer relapses. There is skepticism about the decision to recommend the stinky natural association of vitamins A and D instead of purified synthetic compounds, and the supposed synergistic action of the two cofactors has not been demonstrated yet.
Research to develop and test vitamin D analogues is still far behind: Randomized Clinical Trials will take years but a major pharmaceutical company is supporting them.
A researcher from Israel is showing his final results related to the synergistic effects of carnosic acid (rosemary) and vitamin D on leukemic cells.

A couple of years have past since the Wisdom In Medicine Panel (WIMP!) and the Association of Parents Against Leukemia together with the Commonsense Committee revised the data and took a decision. They immediately issued a special recommendation to be sent to all the families concerned.

Now every evening, everywhere in the world, some parent is reminding one of the kids to take his ‘cod’.



...Epilogue.

Engineers (final fiction)

…In 2008 a Polytechnic professor is illustrating the now famous “blue-fluid case” to a group of students of the Aviation Safety course. She is one of the engineers who 20 years before decided to send as soon as possible a dispatch to all the owners of that type of plane. For various reasons, the recommendation to use red fluid for the hydraulic system was not taken into account by few of them. Over the years, there had been other three near-accidents due to a major hydraulic system failure: two planes had to rush to emergency landings, one was flying in bad weather conditions and almost hit the peak of a mountain.  All of them were still using blue fluid. Further and stronger official recommendations were issued, mentioning the incidents and the “growing evidence” that blue fluid could have been the cause.
It took years of investigation to solve the problem: obviously multiple factors were involved. After checking all the data again and again the puzzle was completed. The final piece was an "innocent" chemical in the blue fluid, a stabilyzer substance that had been able to damage only seals from a specific defective batch, and only after a certain period of time. It had been extremely hard and difficult for the whole team of investigators.
The results of this study were finally published in a special Aviation bulletin.
The professor is stressing her point:
"Once you have looked at your results and redone all the calculations, if it is all statistically sound, do not waste anymore time...just move! What did you do all that work for...if you do not put it into practice?"
She is smiling a bit saying:
"Sometimes it is tough to keep on the ground hundreds of planes...but it may happen, and you must be perfectly sure of your results. It takes guts".
At the end of the lesson a student asks:
"How many lives did you and your team save by informing everybody so early?"
The teacher now becomes serious again:
"Do not forget that there is a backup emergency system, reliable enough in normal weather conditions. By the way, our duty is to make aircrafts safer and safer, doctors save lives".

Yes. The professor is right. Doctors and nurses run from emergency rooms to operating theater, from clinic to outpatients, day and night, taking care of their patients in an endless struggle with time (and budget problems). Technology has finally "invaded" Medicine: CATscan, ECHO, MRI and even fiberoptics (that started in aircrafts much before) brought a sort of peaceful revolution into this branch of Science.
The old stethoscope is now almost obsolete and finally engineers work close to doctors these days.
Engineers respect doctors and probably think that they must be special to manage in such a peculiar discipline full of "black holes" and unknown causes...they are a bit scared when they see treatment protocols being improved by trial and error.
They trust medical doctors anyway.

Nevertheless, back in 1988, a couple of open-minded medical doctors discussing the results of the "Shanghai report" together with one or two engineers and a parent of a leukemic child, could have made the difference.

...even now, in this new hypertech century, "it takes guts" to propose cod liver oil use as a nutrient for leukemic patients.




The End 


Iko




  "Il sole dona la vita, il sole se la riprende"    M.U. Dianzani   1975

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=4987.msg241504#msg241504
 










Thank you Zoey,
for asking about my favourite quote.  Well, to explain it properly, in a short 'essay' in english... it will take me more than a few minutes!  But translating it is the easiest thing:

"The sun gives life, the sun takes it back"


These words concluded one of the best lectures I attended in my life. At the 3rd year of Medical school, General Pathology course, more than thirty years ago. Professor Mario Umberto Dianzani was our teacher, Dean of the Medical Faculty and a distinguished scientist, totally dedicated to his students.  Later on he has been Rector of the University of Turin for several years before retiring.
In those days biochemistry was 'the' thing: new cofactors and vitamins were deeply explored by medical research.
I'm sure I owe to his excellent lectures my following research interest in cofactors.


"Aging of cells and living organisms" was the subject of the lecture.

In less than one hour we went from the origin of life on our Planet to the present time.
Volcanoes and oceans plus UV light to catalyze the synthesis of organic compounds (Miller's experiment), then nucleic acid formation after million years of random combinations.
Primitive organisms, bacteria and algae.  Again the sunlight creates energy through photosynthetic processes and here come trees and forests! Different species of primitive life, unicellular, multicellular towards more and more complex organisms, thanks to spontaneous mutations, natural selection and evolution. For the whole 'biosphere' survival is always tightly bound to its origin, to the sunlight.
Sunlight and ultraviolet rays give energy and feed the whole system, nevertheless they are responsible -in the end- for lipid peroxidation and DNA damage.  A series of biochemical reactions lead to senescence in multicellular organisms too.
Complex systems are progressively deranged: skin, bones, muscles, nerves, glands and immune cells get older...diseases follow.
The sun itself puts an end to our lives.

Magic

... 




"Il sole dona la vita, il sole se la riprende"
Mario Umberto Dianzani, 1975.




« Last Edit: 02/01/2011 11:13:37 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #6 on: 13/08/2006 14:48:13 »


The real question is: why a scientific evidence found in 1988 has not been used, put into practice, for our patients' sake? It would have been so easy to confirm those data, arrange a meeting and send a despatch to all the pediatric-oncology departments...after that a proper study could have been started and a scientific article eventually published.

Unfortunately we are humans, not aircrafts!



iko
« Last Edit: 06/06/2008 08:56:41 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #7 on: 15/08/2006 20:43:09 »
MYSTERY



"There is certainly a secret behind spontaneous remissions in leukemia,
whether this is important or not for future research, we do not know."


Marcel Bessis, 1977.


Jean-Pierre Soulié, Marcel Bessis, Jean Bernard et Jean Dausset


Remissions after exchange transfusions in acute leukemia.
On the possible antileukemic properties of normal blood. Historical notes and recent reflections.
Bessis M, Bernard J.
Blood Cells 1983;9(1):75-82

Can artificial intelligence help us understand “spontaneous remissions”  in leukemia?
Marcel Bessis
Blood Cells 1993;19(3):660-1

      
In 1988 Marcel Bessis was an old scientist in his seventies (he died in 1994).  Either he missed the "Shanghai paper" or read it in '94 and collapsed.
He seemed to be sort of a genius, a scientist full of curiosity more than a medical doctor, sometimes looking at things from a totally different point of view.
Before the introduction of chemotherapy, he witnessed a few spontaneous remissions of leukemia after infections or blood exchange in infants (most remissions did not last longer than few months) and got this convinction that the real cause was in the "milieu interieur", the internal environment.

He probably died together with his questions.

His last question about the future application of "artificial intelligence", the extraordinary power of computers to solve the 'mystery' , is an extremely good point.
It seems so normal today to reach, analyze and combine information of any sort in seconds, but imagine how it was few years ago: long days and years spent in libraries to grab just a bunch of data.

...Let's show everybody how powerful this forum is compared to a message in a bottle or even person to person e-mails.
I sent lots.


iko


Paradox


Spontaneous remissions in acute leukemia are so rare and short-lasting to be considered paradoxical events.   Consequently, they are too often ignored and disregarded by the scientific community.

Quote

  Paradoxical results are not uncommon in studies of carcinogenesis.  Ignoring these paradoxes is tantamount to saying the prevailing theory holds in all instances except the paradoxycal cases.  However ignoring "outliers" in data analysis is not satisfying; it should be the last refuge when all else fails.
But more importantly, ignoring paradoxycal results means missing potentially exciting new avenues for research.
Rather than relegate the paradoxycal results to the periphery of investigations, they should be the centerpiece of a paradox-driven research portfolio.


Summary in:
 
"Paradoxes in carcinogenesis: New opportunities fo research directions."
Stuart G Baker and Barnett S Kramer
BMC Cancer  2007, 7:151

this article is available from:  http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/7/151





Bessis Marcel     (1917-1994)


                          

Inserm actualités 1994

Marcel Bessis vient de nous quitter. De la campagne d'Italie à la première rémission des leucémies aiguës, tel pourrait être le titre du chapitre initial de l'oeuvre de Marcel Bessis. C'est pendant la campagne d'Italie qu'il avait proposé de traiter les blessés victimes de graves écrasements musculaires par le grand échange du sang, l'exsanguino-transfusion. C'est à l'hôpital Saint-Antoine que, un des tout premiers, il traite par l'exsanguino-transfusion les nouveau-nés victimes de la maladie hémolytique par conflit Rhésus. D'où de pénétrantes études sur cette maladie du nouveau-né qu'il reproduit chez le raton, qu'il retrouve chez le muleton du Poitou, victime des anticorps anti-baudet sécrétés par la mère jument. C'est enfin, en novembre 1947, à l'hôpital Herold, pour la première fois dans l'histoire des leucémies, la rémission complète d'une leucémie aiguë obtenue par l'exsanguino-transfusion, début d'un long combat.
Cependant, Marcel Bessis, se consacrant entièrement au laboratoire, devenait le pionnier des nouvelles méthodes microscopiques. Il applique la microscopie électronique à l'étude des structures des cellules sanguines normales et leucémiques. Il reconnaît, décrit des formes, des structures nouvelles. Surtout, il met au point la microcinématrographie accélérée en contraste de phase. Il passe de l'anatomie à la physiologie. Il crée littéralement l'écologie, l'éthologie des cellules sanguines, reconnaissant les informations qui couvent à l'intérieur de la cellule, d'organelle en organelle, de mitochondries en centriole. C'est ainsi qu'on lui doit la première description du nécrotaxis, de cette mort cellulaire qui inspire actuellement de nombreux travaux.

Marcel Bessis, comme les grands hommes de sciences, a su constamment allier la rigueur technique à une réflexion générale philosophique dont témoignent des essais sur l'histoire de la recherche scientifique, la créativité dans l'art et la science, la définition du soi et du non-soi.
Cette oeuvre, très étroitement liée à celle des chercheurs de l'Inserm, a été accomplie à l'Institut de pathologie cellulaire de l'hôpital de Bicêtre, puis au Centre d'écologie des cellules du sang à la Salpêtrière.
Membre de nombreuses académies et sociétés savantes étrangères, Marcel Bessis avait été élu en 1979 membre de l'Académie des Sciences.

Professeur Jean Bernard


http://infodoc.inserm.fr/histoire/Histoire.nsf/(WWWReponses)/5AFB06BDC8B13BE480256DCC004EBFBF?OpenDocument&Infos



« Last Edit: 02/01/2010 16:55:49 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #8 on: 19/08/2006 10:21:14 »
August 19th 2006.

First positive result: if you write "leukemia cod liver oil" on Google this topic comes first, just before the 1988 "Shanghai paper".
At least a scared parent who is looking for something good on the nutritional side will find an updated essential review about cod liver oil.
Extremely synthetic -I must say- and without complicated medical terms...engineers like it this way.

The today famous 1988 "Shanghai report" is safe now. Thanks to this fantastic world wide web...and related search engines.
For a while it had run a risk of disappearing, together with thousands of other "old" and "useless" scientific reports from the past century.
Even Marcel Bessis and his mystery about spontaneous remission is back on the stage.

We can easily predict the different reactions after reading this topic:

- Medical doctors won't take it into account as they did before (no controlled trial available).

- Engineers will be amazed, but they would probably find it by pure coincidence, searching for: "Aviation bulletin" or "Hydraulic system".

- Parents of leukemic children will consider to give their child some cod liver oil, instead of getting confused between hundreds of alternative and unproven nutritional supplements.
...and they (the parents) will immediately start feeling better...and less terrified.

Why are these parents so scared?

Just because they are told that their child's disease will be effectively cured in a certain percentage of cases after a series of cycles of highly toxic drugs.
But in a consistent number of cases (25-30%) the disease will come back, resistant to further treatment.
When this happens, more toxic cycles of chemo will be required, and may be RADIATION TREATMENT and a bone marrow transplantation.
In some patients with aggressive types of leukemia, the disease comes back even after a graft, in one case out of two...

After chemo and during maintenance therapy there is no official recommendation for parents:
going down to the seaside or up to the mountains, to the pool or living sealed at home, staying in the shade or in the sunshine, eating this food and avoiding that...nothing.
There is no confirmed evidence about these factors (are we sure?).
So do what you want, but please follow your regular checkups every two weeks and then every month.

In the meantime...we all wait and see if and when IT strikes again.

There is just enough to go mad or/and spend your days in useless searches through medical databases...



When IT strikes back it's a real tragedy for patients and parents.
They suddenly realize why doctors were never totally relaxed during their regular checkups, even  months and years from stop-therapy.  The invisible enemy is back and nobody seems to know why, as it was at the very beginning of their illness.  Girls and boys have grown up and forgotten about those awful days, such a long time has past, wasted without anything specific to do or even try, to avoid all this mess coming back again.
Something should be done for these people.
Quick.








We know from the 'Shanghai report' that daily doses of vitamins A and D (actually cod liver oil!) -taken for at least one year- could be able to reduce leukemia incidence to half or 1/3.
It's not much, but we (parents) should give it a chance and offer this protection to our sick children, trying to avert relapse risk.
 





...in 2006 I joined the Wisdom In Medicine Panel (WIMP!) as a junior member. I have been in the Association of Parents Against Leukemia since '99. We are still looking for the Common Sense Committee. It seems a bit difficult to find one though. Then we'll arrange a meeting to revise all these data and take a decision...

Unfortunately, it's just a dream.
  


Another positive fact:
...there should be quite
enough cod liver oil for
all our sick children...

www.randburg.com/is/lysi

iko


     

...
After a diagnosis of childhood leukemia

It would be like having to drive across the desert with your family in a jeep, after having been told by the mechanic who fixed the engine that you had one chance in three of getting stuck in the middle of the desert!
Your immediate reaction would be trying desperately to get better informed and, checking the old and greasy car's instruction manual, you might find that a particular brand of light yellow oil is strongly recommended for that type of engine.
Surprisingly enough, nobody ever told you that.
What would you do then, wait for 'confirmed evidence'...or rush to buy a few cans of the special oil?
 





        


Today's patients and children's parents cannot afford to wait for a scientific confirmation, they need more hope and a little help right NOW.





Vitamin D As Treatment

How much vitamin D should one take if they have cancer? We don't know as the research is far from complete. Although vitamin D may help, it should only be taken in addition to standard cancer treatment. It should not be considered a first, or only, treatment but used in addition to regular chemotherapy or surgery. Oncologists and surgeons work miracles every day.
Remember, vitamin D may be toxic in overdose, although one expert recently said, "worrying about vitamin D toxicity is like worrying about drowning when you are dying of thirst".

That said, many people think "if a little is good then a lot is better". This is definitely not true about vitamin D.


http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/cancerMain.shtml


...in the meantime, waiting for scientific confirmation, a little bit of 'cod' every day should work just fine.
 
« Last Edit: 02/01/2010 17:00:38 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #9 on: 19/08/2006 14:03:06 »


Speaking of why giving stinky "cod" instead of specific synthetic substances, let's borrow this note from the anti-oxidant topic of the Forum:

quote:

A quote from the article is "Just because a food with a certain compound in it is beneficial to health, it does not mean a pill with the same compound in is"


That's exactly right. A pill sometimes works better than the original food and viceversa.

Scientists versus Mother Nature and her tricks

In the late '70s researchers opened their enormous freezers where thousands of serum samples from blood donors had been stocked since over 10yrs before. They wanted to test vitamin A concentration (knowing that it is well preserved in frozen samples) and look for a correlation with cancer incidence in those individuals. Experimental data in animals had demonstrated a positive effect of retinoic acid on precancerous lesions.
They found a strong inverse relation between vitamin A concentration and risk of tumor. All the media started recommending vitamin A to prevent or even fight cancer.
Few years later a proper RCT (randomized clinical trial) was started: a group of nurses and doctors took either a certain dose of vitamin A or a placebo every day for years. The conclusion of the study was disappointing: no difference in cancer incidence with or without vitamin A.
Some clever mind offered an explanation for this: vitamin A had been found increased in blood donors who had lower risk of cancer because it had been eaten together with some other more effective anticancer compounds.
Here we go with all the broccoli, cabbage, cauliflowers and so on...they are rich of vitamin A and probably have other mysterious anticancer factors.

iko



Addendum:
Vitamin A instead of cod liver oil would play the same trick...if you gave vit.A to patients because the ones taking 'cod' had higher levels of retinoic acid in their blood and were doing better (hypothesis!), you could get poor results because you are not giving together Vit.D and a bit of omega-3 fatty acids, the original recipe.

:mudneddA
 Vitamin D instead of cod liver oil would play the same trick...if you gave vit.D to patients because the ones taking 'cod' had higher levels of vitamin D3 in their blood and were doing better (hypothesis!), you could get poor results because you are not giving together Vit.A and a bit of omega-3 fatty acids, the original recipe.



Conclusions:

The reason why only CLO should be recommended in childhood leukemia as a nutritional support is that we have unconfirmed, neglected, and perhaps weak evidence of its efficacy thanks to a study published in 1988.

But we do have it and we should use it for our patients' sake.

The alternative use of one or more components of CLO separately, suggested by anyone's deductions or thoughts, should be considered unsubstantiated and empirical.

This level of evidence is obviously useless in the case of toxic and expensive drugs that require properly arranged experimental tests before being approved and used in patients.

On the contrary, weak evidence should be quite enough in the case of nontoxic and inexpensive nutritional supplements (especially those historically-safe like cod liver oil).


Parents don't need to ask a doctor or get a prescription
before giving a glass of orange juice and/or
cod liver oil caps to their children,
either they are healthy or sick.

iko  

« Last Edit: 12/08/2010 12:15:50 by iko »
 

Offline lotusbunny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #10 on: 03/09/2006 11:27:12 »
Hi iko,

this is a very interesting topic, I'm surprised not more have joined in.

It does look like Vit D is very importantly related to various cancers, especially as you say, cell proliferation and differentation.

I've been searching around at different websites and have found a couple you may be interested in.
http://pharmacology.case.edu/department/faculty/primary/macdonald.html [nofollow]

This one looks at the research of VDR's and the transcription process.

The other site is;
http://www.umass.edu/microbio/chime/pipe/2000/rxr/intro.htm [nofollow]

This one deals with Retinoid X receptors.

I have found a few other sites if you are interested in the molecular/genetic side of this.

Hope this is of some interest :)

Debs
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #11 on: 03/09/2006 16:39:20 »


I'm happy that somebody replied to this underdiscussed (but with some "viewers") forum...even if I had to recruit her from another topic! Thank you anyway, I was almost thinking to send some question to myself...

The point here should be more phylosophical about Science.
A comparison between different ways of using statistical evidence in aircraft and medical sciences...

A major problem could have been a sort of misunderstanding in results communication:

- doctors were not interested in cod liver oil use in their patients (for various understandable good reasons)

- parents of leukaemic children -on the other side- were not informed that some positive evidence had been found.

- If anybody had wanted confirmed evidence of something like that in a controlled study...

Well, it would have been like dividing airplanes into two groups (red-fluid versus blue-fluid) and counting the accidents in the two sets until more significant evidence had come out.
Can you imagine a placebo group versus cod liver oil in this setting (1/3 die in 5-10yrs)?

 Neither that has been done...just nothing.


So called alternative treatments are usually defined "unproven".  When they are tested and found useless they become "disproven".

In this very specific case, i.e. use of cod liver oil in childhood leukemia, we should be in between from unproven to proven (weak evidence) with no toxicity and very low costs.

Recommendations could be sent directly to the parents concerned (but who should tell them and how?).

Scientific evidence will come in years. Patients may benefit from a nutritional supplement today.

Quote
Parents do not need to ask a doctor or get a recipe before giving orange juice
 and/or cod liver oil to their children, either they are healthy or sick.

iko
« Last Edit: 20/10/2008 21:28:06 by iko »
 

Offline lotusbunny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #12 on: 03/09/2006 17:10:54 »
I have a question.

Could an over abundance of vit D over stimulate the retinoid X receptors and thus transcription of RNA, and actually lead to further cancers rather than reducing them, by prolification of cellular tissue? Which would then possibly explain why sitting in the sun can cause cancer.
I wonder if UV denatures receptors, like the RAS receptor not being able to turn off?

Debs

PS. I've found some reference to ubiquitin/proteom pathways which also seem to be a factor. I'm still trying to work all that one out at the moment. I'll post back if it has any relevance.
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #13 on: 03/09/2006 17:27:37 »
I cannot answer your questions: I just read "something" about these complex interactions: I'm a sort of beginner. Even experts would find it hard...

When multiple factors are interacting so closely like in biology, nothing is streight and easy to predict or even understand. You need lab.research, standard conditions, knockout genes and many other things to make it simpler and...still.

Quote
...why sitting in the sun can cause cancer.
lotusbunny
 

This is an interesting point: apparently regular and prolonged (most of the year) exposure to sunlight without burning makes your body produce vit.D3 and prevents skin tumors!
Isn't it neat?

Check this out on PubMed easily:
cross "Holick m" and "skin cancer" and find all the reviews where this point is quite stressed (epidemiological data).
I warn you: a vitamin D3 tsunami is going to hit the media pretty soon...this stuff has been around in scientific press for too long.
Up with the old cod liver oil!
iko


P.S.  Ubiquitin is everywhere...in my next life I'll try to study and understand something about it: it is too difficult.
For now I'd like to give 'cod' to most of the children with leukaemia. This seems really impossible to achieve.


« Last Edit: 17/10/2008 16:43:19 by iko »
 

Offline lotusbunny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #14 on: 03/09/2006 19:30:47 »
Maybe low level contant Vit D, as in continuous small amounts of sun exposure, allows the body to find an equalibrium and gradually increase its level to optimum. Where as intense saturation of Vit D over stimulates at causes damage to receptors?
Usually when they talk of too much vit D, it is about kidney damage and its lost ability to metabolise it. I wonder if it is much more than this.
One of the articals I've found talks about bacteria and RXR.
It mentions the bacterias ability to cause macrophage apotosis and so limit the T cell response, so damaging the innate immune system. But RXR and LXR seem to protect the cells, when given an antipoptic regulator AIM/CT2
I think you mentioned T cells be the problem in leukemia? I'll have to find out more about it. I don't know much about the illness.

I'm a novice myself, I just study topics as my hobby. I love learning and would dream of working in research.

At this moment I'm still working hard on the methyl bromide front.
I have access to a number of databases with the OU. This is going to be a long work, but I love it :D

Debs

Ps I hope I'm not boring the pants off you, please say if I am
 

Offline lotusbunny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #15 on: 03/09/2006 19:59:19 »
Sorry, my English in the last post was a bit erratic, my calcium levels have dropped.
It makes thinking and writing a bit foggy. I appologise when that happens
:D
Debs
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #16 on: 03/09/2006 20:06:57 »
There is no evidence of toxicity due to hyperproduction of vitamin D3 by sunlight exposure.  Internal mechanisms seem to inactivate and/or stock in the skin byproducts of this hormone.  Vitamin D intoxication has been reported in the cases of prolonged assumption by mouth of excessive doses of fish liver oil or synthetic compounds. This is what I knew and it's not much. Toxic levels of vitD (It is a fat-soluble vitamin) lead to abnormal calcium adsorption and accumulation mainly in the kidneys.

quote:

I think you mentioned T cells be the problem in leukemia? I'll have to find out more about it. I don't know much about the illness...

...It could take more than a human life to read everything about human leukaemia, but a few basic answers are still missing...

many others plus me


keep up the good work

iko
« Last Edit: 26/04/2009 13:04:03 by iko »
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #17 on: 22/09/2006 21:27:57 »
Some recent hints on the vitamin D side...
...to keep my monologue alive.

Vitamin D compounds: clinical development as cancer therapy and prevention agents.

While 1,25 dihydroxycholecalciferol (calcitriol) is best recognized for its effects on bone and mineral metabolism, epidemiological data indicate that low vitamin D levels may play a role in the genesis and progression of breast, lung, colorectal and prostate cancer, as well as malignant lymphoma and melanoma. Calcitriol has strong antiproliferative effects in prostate, breast, colorectal, head/neck and lung cancer, as well as lymphoma, leukemia and myeloma model systems.
Antiproliferative effects are seen in vitro and in vivo.
The mechanisms of these effects are associated with G0/G1 arrest, induction of apoptosis, differentiation and modulation of growth factor-mediated signaling in tumor cells. In addition to the direct effects on tumor cells, recent data strongly support the hypothesis that the stromal effects of vitamin D analogs (e.g., direct effects on tumor vasculature) are also important in the antiproliferative effects.
Antitumor effects are seen in a wide variety of tumor types and there are few data to suggest that vitamin D-based approaches are more effective in any one tumor type. Glucocorticoids potentiate the antitumor effect of calcitriol and decrease calcitriol-induced hypercalcemia. In addition, calcitriol potentiates the antitumor effects of many cytotoxic agents. Preclinical data indicate that maximal antitumor effects are seen with pharmacological doses of calcitriol and that such exposure can be safely achieved in animals using a high dose, intermittent schedule of administration. AUC and C(max) calcitriol concentrations of 32 ng.h/ml and 9.2 ng/ml are associated with striking antitumor effects in a murine squamous cell carcinoma model and there is increasing evidence from clinical trials that such exposures can be safely attained in patients. Another approach to maximizing intra-tumoral exposure to vitamin D analogs is to inhibit their catabolism. The data clearly indicate that agents which inhibit the major vitamin D catabolizing enzyme, CYP24 (24 hydroxylase), potentiate calcitriol killing of prostate tumor cells in vitro and in vivo. Phase I and II trials of calcitriol, either alone or in combination with carboplatin, taxanes or dexamethasone, as well as the non-specific CYP24 inhibitor, ketoconazole, have been initiated in patients with androgen-dependent and -independent prostate cancer and other advanced cancers. The data indicate that high-dose calcitriol is feasible on an intermittent schedule, no dose-limiting toxicity has been encountered, but the optimal dose and schedule remain to be delineated. Clinical responses have been seen with the combination of high-dose calcitriol + dexamethasone in androgen-independent prostate cancer (AIPC) and, in a large randomized trial in men with AIPC, potentiation of the antitumor effects of docetaxel were seen.

from: Trump DL et al.


Anticancer Res. 2006 Jul-Aug;26(4A):2551-6.




...the 'protective effect' of cod liver oil
versus childhood leukemia
suggested by the
Shanghai study in 1988 finds a support in
this more recent report about vitamin D:



Anticlastogenic potential of 1alpha,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 in murine lymphoma.

Sarkar A, Saha BK, Basak R, Mukhopadhyay I, Karmakar R, Chatterjee M.
Department of Pharmaceutical Technology, Jadavpur University, Calcutta, India.

Vitamin D3, having gained scientific interest for so long because of its role in mineral homeostasis, has now received great importance as a possible antitumor agent.
This study was undertaken in an attempt to visualize the possible anticlastogenic potential of the vitamin in an ascitic mouse lymphoma model namely, Dalton's lymphoma. Frequencies of structural type chromosomal aberrations, sister chromatid exchanges and micronucleus assays have been chosen as the genotoxic endpoints in the proposed investigation. All these cytogenetic markers have been found to be markedly elevated during the progression of lymphoma in bone marrow cells.
Vitamin D3 effectively suppressed the frequencies of chromosomal aberrations and sister chromatid exchanges in the lymphoma-bearing mice during the entire phase of tumor growth that significantly coupled with almost two-fold increase in survival time (37 +/- 2 and 68 +/- 2 days in lymphoma controls and vitamin D3-treated lymphoma-bearing mice, respectively), thus substantiating the antineoplastic efficacy of this secosteroid. The outcome of this study also is clearly reflected in the depletion of circulating (serum) vitamin D3 levels in the lymphoma control mice compared with normal (vehicle) controls while a still higher level was maintained in the VD3-treated lymphoma mice. This anticlastogenic property of the vitamin has so far been neglected and this is the first attempt to unravel the vitamin D3's effect in combating tumor development in vivo by limiting the frequencies of chromosomal aberrations, sister chromatid exchanges and micronuclei at least in transplantable murine model studied herein.

Cancer Lett. 2000 Mar 13;150(1):1-13
.


...but an anti-mutagenic effect of vitamin A
had been previously reported by several investigators.
This is one example:



Antimutagenicity profiles of some natural substances.

Brockman HE, Stack HF, Waters MD.
Department of Biological Sciences, Illinois State University, Normal 61761.

Selected antimutagenicity listings and profiles have been prepared from the literature on the antimutagenicity of retinoids and the carotenoid beta-carotene. The antimutagenicity profiles show: (1) a single antimutagen (e.g., retinol) tested in combination with various mutagens or (2) antimutagens tested against a single mutagen (e.g., aflatoxin B1).
Data are presented in the profiles showing a dose range for a given antimutagen and a single dose for the corresponding mutagen; inhibition as well as enhancement of mutagenic activity is indicated. Information was found in the literature on the testing of selected combinations of 16 retinoids and carotenoids vs. 33 mutagens. Of 528 possible antimutagen-mutagen combinations, only 82 (16%) have been evaluated. The most completely evaluated retinoids are retinol (28 mutagens), retinoic acid and retinol acetate (7 mutagens each), and retinal and retinol palmitate (6 mutagens each). beta-Carotene is the most frequently tested carotenoid (15 mutagens). Of the remaining retinoids and carotenoids, 8 were evaluated in combination with a single mutagen and the other 2 were tested against only 2 or 3 mutagens. Most of the data on antimutagenicity in vitro are available for S. typhimurium strains TA98 and TA100. Substantial data also are available for sister-chromatid exchanges in vitro and chromosome aberrations in vitro and in vivo. This report emphasizes the metabolic as well as the antimutagenic effects of retinoids in vitro and in vivo.

Mutat Res. 1992 Jun;267(2):157-72
.



One, two, and three!
Vitamin D, vitamin A, and even
omega-3 fatty acids have an
anti-mutagenic capability.
A natural mix of rare and precious moleculae
in a cheap, smelly, light yellow oil...

Desmutagenic and bio-antimutagenic activity of docosahexaenoic acid
and eicosapentaenoic acid in cultured Chinese hamster V79 cells.

Kuroda Y, Shima N, Yazawa K, Kaji K.
National Institute of Genetics, Mishima, 411-8540, Shizuoka, Japan.

The antimutagenic activities of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) were examined by studying their effects on induction of 6-thioguanine (6TG)-resistant mutations by ethyl methanesulfonate (EMS) in cultured Chinese hamster V79 cells.
DRA had a remarkable inhibitory effect against the cytotoxicity of EMS, when cells were simultaneously-treated with EMS, showing a blocking or scavenging activity of DHA in reduction of surviving fraction of cells. DHA had not so significant effect, when cells were treated before and after treatment with EMS. On the other hand, EPA had marked inhibiting effects against cytotoxicity of EMS, when cells were treated with EPA, before, simultaneous and after treatment with EMS. Against the induction of mutations by EMS, an antimutagenic activity of DHA was found when cells were pre-treated, simultaneously-treated or post-treated with DHA. EPA was also effective in reducing EMS-induced 6TG-resistant mutations when the cells were treated using the three different treatment procedures described above.
The results suggest that in cultured Chinese hamster V79 cells, DHA and EPA may have both desmutagenic activity, which inactivates EMS chemically and/or enzymatically and bio-antimutagenic activity which suppresses mutation fixation after DNA is damaged by EMS.

Mutat Res. 2001 Oct 18;497(1-2):123-30.



One, two, and three...
and four! Cod liver oil contains
even vitamin E that has similar
antioxidant properties, and who
knows if this is the end of it...


Not long ago I read that those peculiar omega-3 so good for our brain (EPA & DHA) that
we get from sea creatures, mainly blue-fish, seem to be made by the ocean plankton itself.
Humans and even those fishlets are not able to synthesize them.
It is a wonderful hypothesis: those special unsaturated fatty acids represent a sort of vitamin
for all of us and come directly from where life originated million years ago on this Planet...
Our survival seems to be inevitably bound to the sea and the sunshine.



ikod
« Last Edit: 04/08/2010 18:33:14 by iko »
 

Offline Zoey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
    • http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/#special
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #18 on: 05/10/2006 00:47:41 »
You may want to contact some of the vitamin D researchers who are belong to the vitamin D council.
   Below is the  link to a recent article by Michael Holick, long a researcher in vitamin D. He does mention leukemia in the article.  His bio, link below, is on the Vitamin D Council web site and has his contact information there along with other researchers you may want to contact.
Zoey
http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/scientists.shtml
Link to Holick's recent article:
http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/116/8/2062
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #19 on: 05/10/2006 08:16:35 »
Thank you Zoey,
I wrote to prof. Holick a couple of months ago and he sent me the pre-print of that jci paper!
Since then I realized that a vit.D 'tsunami' was coming soon...
I wrote to the vit.D council to inform them about this topic of the forum just few days ago.
The comparison engineers versus doctors came out just writing to this forum...and became -to me- the most important issue of this topic.
I had been looking for an example for a few years...and finally it came out.
Thinking of my father and his beloved aircraft safety science.
I tried to write a short 'essay' to strenghten my point and realized I'm not a writer...
But you probably got my point of view here:

-I'm going directly to the children's parents.
 It's a sort of emengency: we're almost 20 years late.

-I'm going for cod liver oil (not vit.D3 alone).
 Original recipe, with no prescription and low costs.
 The only 'evidence' we have is for cod liver oil.
 And it'is historically safe.
 This is obviously rejected by vitamin D supporters.
 I would not like to watch again the vit.A failure in cancer prevention...I learned my lesson.
I do not want to be any longer the only parent (I guess) to remind one of the kids to take his 'cod' in the evening...and watch him grow up taller than his older brother, perfectly healthy again (thanks to his doctors!), swim like a fish (cod), well and fit.

In this particular case we could do without evidence based medicine for a while.
It is emergency based medicine, to find a remedy for an old mistake of the past in a neglected field of investigation.
This is only my personal opinion, of course.

Please do give me back my wise and white-haired professors of Medicine and their old "ex-adjuvantibus" criteria.
And keep so called evidence based medicine somewhere else just for now.

Here we have a case of weak evidence because nobody wanted to search more

...The old Norse name for cod liver oil was "lysi" – light, and the oil was actually used to fuel lamps all over Europe.
 
iko   
« Last Edit: 08/02/2007 22:04:05 by iko »
 

Offline Zoey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
    • http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/#special
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #20 on: 05/10/2006 22:18:48 »
Hello Iko,
 "tsunami" is right. However, even with major, major efforts to publicize the issue, vitamin D deficiency, and it's symptoms, are likely to continue being unrecognized or misdiagnosed, as with other vitamin syndromes. I wrote an article for my web page about vitamin D deficiency related to seizures and came away wondering how many "miraculous" cures of seizures [esp. in young children] might occur were there not a mental block to seeing the obvious [going beyond the engineering approach to evaluating seizure disorders]. Cod liver oil is available in gel caps so the resistance to the taste is easily overcome now. Resistance to figuring out why A and D may work better together may be more difficult to overcome.
  I am looking for information to document the prevalence of vitamin B12 deficiency in the USA for an article. According to the federal agency I contacted, there is not, cannot be, a "problem" with B12 deficiency here because we have food abundance. How can anyone find a novel solution to a problem if they cannot consider information that doesn't fall into the current doctrine?
  Have you written anything up summarizing your experience with your child's recovery and how you became interested in the issue of vitamin A & D [cod liver oil]? If so, can you post it or send me a copy? Maybe an essay on why novel approaches to treatment need to be considered is in order.
  This book may interest you, "Military Strategies for Sustainment of Nutrition and Immune Function in the Field" by the Committee on Military Nutrition Research, Institute of Medicine. It is available to read on the net:
http://newton.nap.edu/catalog/6450.html
  It contains a chapter by Richard Semba on vitamin A and his research, with some references to leukemia.
Zoey
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #21 on: 05/10/2006 23:09:31 »
Hi Zoey,
part of my personal story is in this topic, inside the short essay "the Shanghai report".
Some other bits in my cod liver oil topic (complementary medicine)...and I may keep the rest for myself. The point here shouldn't be about the single medical history of my younger son: in 1999 he was lucky to have a middle-risk type of ALL, went through all the scheduled chemo plus spinal punctures (!) without major complications -thanks to our splendid and dedicated nurses and doctors- and now is a mature young adult studying at the Polytechnic to become an aircraft engineer and move to LA asap (he likes it there).
If you read my 'novel', there is an italian doctor who finds in 1999 the now famous 1988 "Shanghai report".  I was 11yrs late and found it by pure coincidence, crossing CLO and leukemia: we just got PubMed at home and in my office, my son was sick...so long hours on Medline data bases were 'physiological', just normal.
I didn't want to interfere with the treatment, so we started with 1 CLO capsule a day (!!!) for 24 months (better than nothing...over 720caps!). After stopping any treatment he was ready for the standard daily dose of 4-6caps.
He is alive thanks to his doctors and their medical knowledge.
Cod liver oil might have helped him or not (we'll never know that): it has certainly been good on me, it gave me the feeling of having done something for my son (big placebo effect).

The real question here is: why a scientific evidence found in 1988 has not been used, put into practice, for our patients' sake?
It would have been so easy to confirm those data, arrange a meeting and send a despatch to all the pediatric-oncology departments...after that a proper study could have been started and a paper eventually published.
But we are humans, unfortunately, not airplanes!




Vitamin B12 deficiency is pretty rare (but exists!) in developed countries: as a result of malnutrition (alcoholics, faddists, anorectics etc.) or impaired adsorption caused by gastric atrophy.
Please find something about vitamin B12 from the "form of vitamin" topic of this forum (cells/microbes/viruses), two posts from few weeks ago:


Vitamin B12 deficiency could cause pernicious anemia and/or severe neurolgic damage, psychotic behaviour and in rare cases irreversible blindness. I remember a report of few years ago about a young man left completely blind after a badly managed vegan diet.


Dementia caused by vitamin B12 deficiency

Behrens MI, Diaz V, Vasquez C, Donoso A.
Departamento de Neurologia y Neurocirugia, Hospital Clinico Universidad de Chile.

Cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency can cause polyneuropathy, myelopathy, blindness, confusion, psychosis and dementia.
Nonetheless, its deficiency as the sole cause of dementia is infrequent. We report a 59 years old man with a 6 months history of progressive loss of memory, disorientation, apathy, paranoid delusions, gait difficulties with falls, and urinary incontinence. He had suffered a similar episode 3 years before, with a complete remission. On examination there was frontal type dementia with Korsakoff syndrome, a decrease in propioception and ataxic gait. Cerebrospinal fluid examination showed a protein of 0.42 g/L. Brain computed tomography showed sequelae of a frontal left trauma. Brain single photon computed tomography (SPECT) was normal.
Complete blood count showed a macrocytic anemia with a hematocrit 29% and a mean corpuscular volume of 117 micron3.
Plasma vitamin B12 levels were undetectable, erythrocyte folate levels were 3.9 ng/ml and plasma folate was normal. The myelogram showed megaloblastosis and the gastric biopsy showed atrophic gastritis. Treatment with parenteral B12 vitamin and folic acid reverted the symptoms, with normalization of the neuropsychological tests and reintegration to work.

Rev Med Chil. 2003 Aug;131(8):915-9
.




iko

I forgot to explain how vitamin B12 deficiency could develop even on a regular diet.
Gastric atrophy leads to impaired production of a special protein (Intrinsic Factor) that binds B12 and allows its absorption in the intestine. Liver can stock large amounts of B12 enough for approx. 6 months.
So if the stomach stops making IF, after 6m on a regular diet vitamin B12 deficiency becomes evident (to somebody who can diagnose it on the spot!). Large amounts of B12 by mouth can allow the intestine to absorbe enough vitamin anyway. But in case of severe deficiency, parenteral administration for a few days is recommended.
bye

iko
« Last Edit: 24/06/2010 22:21:44 by iko »
 

Offline Zoey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
    • http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/#special
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #22 on: 06/10/2006 09:24:54 »
Hello Iko,
 Quote:
The real question is: why a scientific evidence found in 1988 has not been used, put into practice, for our patients' sake? It was so easy to confirm those data, arrange a meeting and send a despatch to all the pediatric-oncology departments...after that a proper study could have been started and a paper eventually published.

 True, but where is the financial incentive for the research? Where is the profit to be made if cod liver oil is effective in preventing or treating ALL or any other disease? Where is the interest or even capacity to take in new information that requires changing, if not abandoning one's beliefs about the nature and progression of ALL or any other disease?
  The issue you raise echos what Alred Sommer encountered while his life saving research findings regarding vitamin A were dismissed by his peers--for a decade. He expresses it eloquently in his essay, "A Bridge Too Near".
http://whale.to/v/sommer.html
 A google search on ALL and cod liver oil turned up about 200 links. The Shanghai study is not totally buried, but the information is not getting out quickly.
  We might get closer to finding cures for many diseases if we would view disease in terms of natural processes, not due to "outside invaders" and "forces beyond our control."
   Thanks for the information and references on B12. My searching indicates deficiencies may be more widespread than generally believed in "developed" countries.
  The focus of the article is on reversible myelopathies. I was diagnosed with syringhydromyelia four years ago (T6-T10). By the dearth of information, and the medical "advice" offered,  it was obvious this would be a do-it-yourself-spinal cord repair job.
   Within two days I had more information than could be found at the National Organization for Rare Diseases. While the official word is surgery is the only viable treatment, my searching began turning up cases that were healed with acupuncture or that resolved on their own.  
   Last spring I had some rather dramatic improvement in spinal cord pain and other symptoms while experimenting with large doses of B12 and folic acid for another reason. The change was so great, I did a google search on B12 and hydromyelia, then syringomyelia.
  Immediately a case of hydromyelia reversed with B12 supplements turned up, and of syringomyelia as well. These were not anecdotal. Medical reports of myelopathy reversed go back a good eighty years.  The search for the mysterious substance in liver that cured pernicious anemia is what led to the identification of B12 in 1948. Since it was so successful in curing spinal cord disease, why are cures like these not routine?
   More searching turned up many cases in which myelopathies were reversed when the underlying nutritional disorder was identified and treated. Physicians in several countries have written on the subject and the need for all health care providers to be informed and to look for nutritional factors any time a patient develops myelopathy. I see their articles gathering dust on library shelves.
   The most common nutritional causes of myelopathy turning up are B12 or copper deficiency, less often vitamin E deficiency and exposure to nitrous oxide which can induce B12 deficiency. The situations in which myelpathy may be reversible is the primary focus, with an emphasis on recognizing the need to evaluate for these possibilities even when there are no overt symptoms of deficiency.
   My rant may be similar to yours. There are several nutritional causes of spinal cord degeneration. The symptoms may appear to be those of multiple sclerosis, transverse myelitis, found one case of Parkinson's, or the myelias. So why isn't anyone who develops signs of myelopathy routinely evaluated for these possible causes of their symptoms? Why isn't every health care worker in the world made aware of this important information. Well, if B12 deficiency is rare, why waste the money testing for it?
   Guess we need also to keep raising our voices and looking at ways to be heard. The reason I asked you about writing on cod liver oil and ALL, was not to focus on your son, but on the issue of a possible treatment\preventive for ALL that deserves more attention.
   There are lots of options on the internet to make your voice heard and generate more interest in this issue. If nothing else, post an article\essay about ALL\cod liver oil on web sites devoted to ALL, or other forums like this and direct readers to this dicussion. That may raise awareness and interest promoting further research.
Regards,
Zoey
P.s. Some links on reversible myelopathy:
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlPrinter=true&xmlFilePath=journals/ijn/vol2n1/vitamin.xml
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/inside.asp?AID=58&UID=
http://bioline.utsc.utoronto.ca/archive/00002888/01/ni04171.pdf
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/citation/65/3/E7
 

Offline Zoey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
    • http://www.indiana.edu/~pietsch/#special
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #23 on: 10/10/2006 03:53:51 »
Hello Iko,
  Can you tell me where I can find a copy of the Shanghai Report online?
Thanks,
Zoey
 

Offline iko

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1626
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #24 on: 10/10/2006 08:29:54 »
Hi Zoey,
I think the article is too old to be available online.
I got it from the library few years ago.  Surprisingly enough, in the whole text you cannot find more than in the abstract about cod liver oil and incidence of childhood ALL or AML.
Believe me, this important finding is not even in the title and is not expanded/discussed in the text.
I might scan it for you and send it by e-mail.
Let me know
Ciao!

iko
« Last Edit: 10/10/2006 08:38:22 by iko »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #24 on: 10/10/2006 08:29:54 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums