[neilep (OP)]

[]Has science devised a way for us to see through someone elses eyes yet ?...and if not...why not ?

People with normal vision seem to see the same colours, but can we ever be sure of subtle differences between shades and hues from one individual to another ?

For our American chums please feel free to change the spelling of colour to color.
Ta very much.[:X][:X]

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[qpan]

I think that most people with "normal" vision probably see the same colours- have you tried one of the colour tests with a number written in bubbles of slightly different colours? If our perceptions of colour differed too much, then many people would not be able to read those numbers.

Just my opinion. Hell- my, white could be your black!

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe

[Ylide]

Color is perceived when photons of light of a particular wavelength are absorbed by the color-sensing parts of the eye called the cones.  (and the transmission of the energy from that photon absorption is a signal sent to the optic nerve and then to the brain, of course)  It's commonly accepted among the people who "decide" color that there is some very slight variation in perception of hues, (based on # of cones, I imagine) as the human eye can resolve something like 10 million distinct colors.  But, barring a genetic defect like color blindness, rest assured that we're seeing basically the same colors.

This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People

[tweener]

I would basically agree with Jay that the machinery is very much the same person to person (barring defects) and thus we probably see the same color.  Red is red.  Blue is Blue.  The argument may come in on subtle differences in shades of the same color.  Just ask my wife - she'll tell you I'm wrong every time!

The same question could arise for hearing or any of the senses.  This problem could be investigated further with the communication system I was proposing the other day where we could use an implanted device to send signals directly from one person's brain to another.  That would eliminate the barrier of language.


----
John

[chris]

Our appreciation of colour is entirely a construct of our brains.

There is no way to know whether the experience that I call "red" (produced by my brain when light in the red part of the spectrum enters my eye) is the same psychological experience that you or any other person (or animal) 'sees'.

We agree on the colour of things because that is what we have been taught - that when we see that colour it's called "red". But try explaining a colour to a blind person who has never had sight. You cannot do it except in metaphor. It is a unique and individual experience. My 'red' might in fact by your green.

Scary thought !

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[cuso4]

Identifying different colours is through learning. If you teach a child that the red colour we are seeing is called 'green' then every time he sees the red colour he'll say it's green. Although I don't think anyone would actually try this experiment, it will be so cruel to the child.

Angel

[tweener]

Actually this "experiment" is done all the time.  Our neighbors to the south call my Red "rojo" and Green "Verde".  It's all just verbal symbols for some external stimulus.  As long as we can agree what symbol ties to what stimulus we're ok.  If not, we're speaking a different language and have something to learn.  Right?

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[neilep (OP)]

Thank you for all your valuable incites....I figured that it's a matter of accepting that each colour we see is most certainly the same as each other and that the possibility of differenes in shades and hues is almost a certainty....With regard to aural senses I can certainly vouch for  vastly individual differences as I demonstrate quite specialist Hi Fi equipment and the subjectivity that each individual has is most obvious. I would presume as mentioned, this must also apply to all the other senses too. Thanks again

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[bezoar]

But there are subtle differences in our perception of color (American spelling).  For instance, when we get to the blue greens, I see the color as green, whereas most of my friends see is as bleu (French spelling, for Quantum), yet I am not color or colour blind.  On the same subject, did anyone read "Island of the Color Blind" by Oliver Sacks?  Fascinating book.

[chris]

Yes, but I'm making more of a philosophical point which is that the "experience" that my brain calls "green" - i.e. the way it responds to the presence of light in the green part of the spectrum - may be totally different to what another person calls 'green'. So what I call green might in fact be yellow in another person's head. But because we are brought up knowing this colour is green, that is what we call it. The experience that your brain generates for you when you look at something called 'green' may however, be totally different to that which my brain produces for me. But there is no way we can ever know !

Individuals with synaesthesia can appreciate what I am talking about (although I (sadly) don't have it myself). In this 'condition' there is presumably some mis-wiring in the brain that enables people with synaesthesia to, for example, taste shapes, hear colours or feel words, as well as experiencing them the 'normal' way that you or I do.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Donnah]

Chris, do you think that ESP could be a form of synaesthesia?  You could "see" another person's thoughts, or "feel" their emotions.

[OldMan]

Now that is funky I can just imagine it...

 "Would you like mustard with your hotdog sir?"
"Doesn't matter, as long as I say Circles it'll taste great!"

[Qing]

just out of interest, how do these people hear colours? (would it be like photons stimulate the generation of electric impulse? very bad guess[])

Qing

[cuso4]

How can you 'hear' colour? I don't think there's any photoreceptor in the ears.

Angel

[chris]

Synaesthetics 'hear' colours because the nerve fibres that connect to the part of the brain that decodes sound also project (aberrantly) to the parts of the brain involved in colour vision. In this way when the synaesthetic hears a certain word, for instance, they also 'see' a colour because both brain regions are activated.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[bezoar]

Do you think that could be part of the problem with autism?  They are hypersensitive to touch.  And there's a great book written by a high functioning autistic Temple Grandon called "I Think In Pictures."  Maybe it's an exaggerated form of synaesthsia.

[Qing]

what about they are seeing blue and meanwhile someone said the word "red",do they start to see it as blue or may be purple?

Qing

[baby2michaelt]

i don't know it is hard to tell but bezoars idea sounds like it is ighly possible and it makes sence that autism could be an exaggerated form of synaesthia(i think i spelled that right). I guess tha it could be proven but how?

baby2michaelt[}:)]

[tweener]

I wonder if young children have more ability to "hear" colors and "see" sounds etc. because the brain has more neurons and interconnections during childhood than it does after the person matures.  My thought is that the extra connections Chris explains as synaesthesia exist normally in the young and then usually go away as a person matures but sometimes don't go away.

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[Donnah]

The additional neurons and interconnections in the brain must explain why teenagers know so much more than us dumb adults.  Maybe I'll ask my 17 year old son.[]