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Author Topic: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case  (Read 9118 times)

Offline Quixote

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Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« on: 14/03/2003 00:19:49 »
Hello every one- I was wondering if anyone could give me an explanation or ideas for causal concerning this situation.

I am a biology student, but not necessarily a fan of marijuana- I do have friends however that are.  One in particular was an avid smoker for about two years, until recently, he developed a conditioned response to the inhalation of smoke from the plant.  The first episode came randomly, without warning, and every time he's tried to smoke since then, he experianced an extremely elevated heart rate, which essentially caused him shortness of breath, etc.  The degree of the heart rate increase seemed to be proportional to the amount of THC (tetrahydrolcannibinol) consumed.  

This intrigued me, and I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the topic for me.  The first time it had happened, the doctors originally diagnosed him with an anxiety attack.  The marijuana was not laced.  And this person has never exhibited any forms of anxiety before or since then... in fact he has always been one of the most relaxed, laid-back people I've ever met.  

Any comments/suggestions are encouraged and appreciated-  Have a great day- to all!!!!


 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #1 on: 15/03/2003 02:01:55 »
Hi Quixote,
Was your friend smoking mj that was organic, or hydroponic?  If it was hydroponic and was not "flushed" (fed only water) for 3 weeks prior to harvest, your friend could be reacting to the chemical nutrients.  You can get a LOT more information from my friend who does medical research on mj and develops web pages.  Go to  www.daystarconcepts.com and email her from there.  Tell her Donnah sent you.  Hope this helps.
 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #2 on: 06/04/2003 09:47:12 »
Dear Quixote

I have a friend, who is now an ex-smoker, who developed a similar conditioned response to your friend, though to 'normal' cigarettes rather than hash.

He had always been a heavy smoker and had never suffered any side effects. But whilst at a conference in the US about 15 years ago he ran out of cigarettes and was offered a packet of a different brand belonging to someone else.

After only a few puffs he developed tachycardia (rapid heart rate) and breathlessness (like your friend). Putting the experience down to nerves because he was due to stand up and talk in front of a large audience later that day he put out the cigarette and forgot about it.

Later, in the evening, he was given another of the same brand of cigarettes that provoked the first episode and precisely the same thing happened again. He could smoke other brands of cigarettes without any problem, however.

Talking with a colleague who's research interest is in learned responses, we think that the experience was an example of 'Pavlovian conditioning' whereby nervousness produced the unpleasant symptoms which, because they occurred simultaneously with smoking, were associated in the brain with smoking and hence, rather like Pavlov's dogs that salivated when he rang a bell, our friends developed anxiety symptoms associated with smoking.

TNS
 

Offline pat

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #3 on: 08/04/2003 18:53:34 »
Seen this week's press releases by Prof. John Henry from London (he was interviewed on Naked Scientists in about October 2001 - see http://www.thenakedscientists.com/html/shows/2001.11.11.htm [nofollow])

Apparently marijuana damages the lungs more significantly that tobacco smoke with the result that 15 years of pot smoke is equivalent to 60 years of cigarettes. Ouch.

Also, the relationship between hash and mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, is highlighted in today's Daily Telegraph (sorry, no link to today's edition, I'll find one).

Pat.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #4 on: 12/04/2003 17:09:14 »
Isn't hash made using a process that involves alcohol?  Dr. Hulda Regehr Clark, in her book The Cure for All Cancers, cites alcohol as the cause of serious, cumulative damage to the human body.  Ironically, mj is sometimes prescribed for cancer to alleviate pain and depression while improving the patient's appetite.

Do you know what the ratio of mj/cigarettes was in the study?  If it was 1:1 there must have been some extremely buzzed study subjects.  Did they use one particular brand of cigarettes (and the hundreds of chemicals used in the processing) and one type of mj (Indica or Setiva/hydroponic or organic)?  Also, like hay, if the mj is not properly dried it can grow mould[}:)].  This can have some very serious repercussions for cancer patients trying to derive some benefit from the plant.  

An old folk remedy used by hillbillies in the Ozarks is smoking mullein to treat lung ailments.  I guess the theory involves a direct application to the lungs.  Never tried it myself.  Anyone know more?
 

Offline shug

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #5 on: 26/10/2003 12:58:57 »
Pat, that's regurgitated Reefer Madness. Did you read the BMJ article?

Here's what it said:
"...there is no evidence at present on whether smoking cannabis contributes to the progression of coronary artery disease, as smoking cigarettes does.

It may be argued that the extrapolation from small numbers of individual studies to potential large scale effects amounts to scaremongering. For example, one could calculate that if cigarettes cause an annual excess of 120 000 deaths among 13 million smokers, the corresponding figure for deaths among 3.2 million cannabis smokers would be 30 000, assuming equality of effect. Even if the number of deaths attributable to cannabis turned out to be a fraction of that figure, smoking cannabis would still be a major public health hazard. However, when the likely mental health burden is added to the potential for morbidity and premature death from cardiopulmonary disease, these signals cannot be ignored.

=========

All supposition and speculation - not one fact that proves cannabis is particularly harmful. Its a scare story, not science.



Donnah, no - hash is not made using alcohol. There are quite a few ways of making it but that isn't one of them (if it is its very uncommon). It is one way of extracting the oil, however, but oil isn't very common and id usually smoked with tobacco.
 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #6 on: 26/10/2003 13:23:59 »
quote:
Originally posted by Donnah

Hi Quixote,
You can get a LOT more information from my friend who does medical research on mj and develops web pages.  Go to  www.daystarconcepts.com and email her from there.  Tell her Donnah sent you.


Sounds like a "hook up" to me. Donnah, do you get a cut from the deal?:D

Hash is the oil from the plant, as Shug said. It's usually the resin from the pipe or bowl allowed to sit and gum up. It can also be the "boogery" oil from the leaf.

Mmmmmmmm, hash.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #7 on: 27/10/2003 00:01:47 »
Shug, thanks for jogging my memory...it is hash oil I was thinking about.  

Ron, I'm happy to hook people up with others who know more than I do on a given subject.  I don't need a cut, Deb has already done a lot for me.
 

Offline chris

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #8 on: 27/10/2003 10:50:06 »
Shug :

It may be argued that the extrapolation from small numbers of individual studies to potential large scale effects amounts to scaremongering. For example, one could calculate that if cigarettes cause an annual excess of 120 000 deaths among 13 million smokers, the corresponding figure for deaths among 3.2 million cannabis smokers would be 30 000, assuming equality of effect. Even if the number of deaths attributable to cannabis turned out to be a fraction of that figure, smoking cannabis would still be a major public health hazard. However, when the likely mental health burden is added to the potential for morbidity and premature death from cardiopulmonary disease, these signals cannot be ignored.

Far from reassuring us, the quote you have provided actually highlights the potential dangers, and concerns harboured by the medical profession, about the safety of cannabis. Perhaps you are being misled by the use of the word 'scaremongering' at the top, but more careful reading actually reveals a more sinister undertone to the above quote.

You claim that there is no evidence that cannabis is harmful, although there is a suggestion that it might pose a threat to cardiopulmonary and mental health (possibly amongst susceptible individuals), but where is your evidence that cannabis is entirely safe ?


"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
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Offline shug

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #9 on: 27/10/2003 19:32:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Shug :

It may be argued that the extrapolation from small numbers of individual studies to potential large scale effects amounts to scaremongering. For example, one could calculate that if cigarettes cause an annual excess of 120 000 deaths among 13 million smokers, the corresponding figure for deaths among 3.2 million cannabis smokers would be 30 000, assuming equality of effect.



And thats where your argument falls apart. There is no equality of effect. (Even ASH agree! newbielink:http://www.ukcia.org/research/SmokingGun/RespondingToBLFClaims.html [nonactive])

And the govt's own experts
"The high use of cannabis is not associated with major health problems for the individual or society." (5.1)
 - Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, (UK Government) Home Office, March 2002.

Cannabis has been used for thousands of years and there is not a single known death as a result.

There is no correlation between cannabis-only use and increased cancer rates, as there is with tobacco.

In fact one study carried out by Kaiser Parmanante found that cannabis-only users had a lower rate of cancer than people who smoked no cannabis and no tobacco.
newbielink:http://www.kaiserpermanente.org/locations/california/mod44/mod44-19.html [nonactive]
from which
"In an exhaustive study of ten years of mortality data for over 65,000 men and women, Kaiser Permanente research scientists found no statistically significant association between marijuana smoking and death."

Can you say that about tobacco?


Hugh Robertson
Legalise Cannabis Alliance
PO Box 198
Norwich NR3 3WB
 

Offline roberth

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #10 on: 28/10/2003 02:41:52 »
Statistics are great, aren't they. If I had one foot in a bucket of ice and the other one in a fire, on average, I would feel great.

I would guess that if cannabis was injested rather than smoked, there would be no ill health effects. The mere fact that it is generally smoked means you are breathing in many chemicals that are not completely expelled (tar and CO). These chemicals, similar to the ones in tobacco smoke (apart from the nicotine and thc) would have the same harmful effects. The only difference would be in the quantity.

I have a question on a related topic. When buying cigarettes, you have an option of "normal" or reduced levels of nicotine, tar and CO. How are these components removed from the tobacco and does it reduce the adverse affect? (I realise that it's bad for you anyway.)
 

Offline chris

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #11 on: 28/10/2003 11:39:37 »
Great question.

New regulations have actually banned the use of misleading advertising like "light" and "low tar", which seek to give the impression that they are in some way healthier, because experiemnts showed that if you give people low nicotine cigarettes they merely smoke more cigarettes in total so that their total nicotine intake remains the same. Similarly no one has proved that lower tar cigarettes are any less unhealthy in the long run.

As far as cannabis goes, Iagree with your point entirely - lungs were not designed as receptacles for marijuana smoke and taking any foreign substance like that into your chest will cause harm. They physical and psychological effects of the active agent itself, are another matter entirely.


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Offline shug

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #12 on: 28/10/2003 19:58:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

They physical and psychological effects of the active agent itself, are another matter entirely.


"the active agent". Mmm. There are 60+ cannabinoids and plenty other chemical in cannabis. A lot more than one active agent. Its basic errors like this that give away your total lack of in-depth knowledge and apparent liking for propoganda.

You might as well compare oxygen to air as compare THC to whole cannabis.
 



Hugh Robertson
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PO Box 198
Norwich NR3 3WB
 

Offline george

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #13 on: 28/10/2003 22:20:12 »
Is anyone aware of any evidence that regular cannabis use turns you into a fastidious pedant ?
 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #14 on: 28/10/2003 23:25:57 »
Hahahahahaha......That's funny, George. I was thinking the same thing.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #15 on: 28/10/2003 23:29:19 »
Shug, you will get more bees with nectar than you will with vinegar.  I have noticed that numerous pro-mj groups seem to take a combative stance on the issue.  While I understand the frustration of getting an unfair law changed, I think it will happen faster if scientific evidence is gathered and presented in a logical, unemotional manner.  As you said, there is a huge body of info on the subject, and that can speak for itself.

Sparring with Chris is like preaching to the converted; he's already said that he approves of the medicinal use of the plant's properties but, as any good doctor would, he expresses concern regarding the safety of the most common method of delivery (smoking).  Your work is important, Shug, and I would like to see you use your energy where it will be most effective.
 

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Re: Marijuana- effects? ...bizarre case
« Reply #15 on: 28/10/2003 23:29:19 »

 

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