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My last [testosterone] test at M.D. came back okay.
I have found that exercise is a temporary improvement for POIS. I've been long distance runner/swimmer for 32 yrs. Exercise = Endorphins. For me, staying away from alcohol and caffeine has helped with both conditions. Supplements: I've taken supplements for over 30 years. Vitamin C is my constant forever. I take a B complex, D, fish oil, garlic, magnesium and potassium, also some calcium.For me, this forum is therapeutic and cathartic. I actually feel better as a result of constructive, positive dialogue. Since I feel better as a result, it strengthens my immune and nervous systems. It reinforces healing. It seeps into the subconscious. It actually becomes a tool.
But I absolutely know that there is a "rock solid case" for a concommitant psychological and behavioural genesis, if not actual cause. Thus, I try to work on all aspects of POIS to diminish it: exercise, sleep, nutrition, my mind, my back, supplements, psychiatrist, chiropractor , you know all the stuff we talk about all the time. For me, I prefer natural methods.
Girlwind--Deep in my gut I suspect a broad holistic approach may bethe most valuable to me.
Steve--Very interesting news--It's positive news--I have been very curious about the "escape" experiences people have talked about--Because if you can escape once ,twice, thrice............?
Steve-- ...but the last 20 months I have been basically abstinentPois was "tolerable" and had a defined 2-3 day dissipation pattern. Then in early/middle 2007 things fell apart. Imprudent behavioral choices with their psychological consequences ignited POIS. Now 20 months later, I've rid all imprudent behaviour, reduced POIS "episodes". Can I return to 2004/5 condition? I don't have a clue, but I'm optimistic.
I am in NC and none of the doctors I have seen to know or are willing to answer anything about it.
Pro, i really love your description of "unawakened" state, dissociation. I feel the same thing. You find the good expression. It's the more difficult symptom to explain to my doc.I used the words : - mental confusion- stupor- derealisation- "i feel like sleeping" / dreamlike state- loss of vigilance and loss of consciousness At the moment, my best theory to try to explain this is the unbalanced ratio DHEA/cortisol. Saving cortisol release might be a key factor (avoiding all physical , psychological stressors as diet or light) and for flulike cases at least , inflammation.
None of the physicians I have approached are able to diagnose the problem.
I have a delay post "O" of about 1 to 6 hours before this awful condition begins.
Steve--I understand your symptomatologic chart: 1-5 with % of loss.For me it can be understood as behaviours that trigger an anxiety/panic episode. In my experience it would reflect an hyperexcitatory state. This is why I have posted a lot about my GAD and my POIS. I cannot disentangle them.You know, sometimes I feel we're in a maze or house of mirrors never finding the exit, always running into reflections of ourselves. I submit to you there is an exit. I don't know quite where yet, but I'm optimistically looking.
Total % loss...For me1) openness to dating 2% loss2) dating 5% loss3) arousal behavior 10% loss4) genital contact 20%loss5) orgasmic sexuality 95% lossAfter a two day experiment at stage 2), for us, dating, my partner and I went back to stage 4), for us, non orgasmic genital contact.I'm feeling fatigued, confused, flushed, tired, runny nose, arthritic in my knees and lower back.I'm negotiating with my partner to do a three day experiment at stage 2, for us, after the long weekend and before a three day trip we have next week.
Day two of three of 'no arousal behavior', as negotiated with my partner. Life is returning to me. I am grateful...
Day three of no arousal behaviors. I'm more available to other people, practicing a little, administrating my life more. I notice my meditation is up and I've lost 6 pounds. Nothing earthshaking. The Red Sea didn't part. I haven't been conversing with burning bushes...but I feel more solid internally.
Quote from: SteveD on 20/01/2009 07:49:31Day two of three of 'no arousal behavior', as negotiated with my partner. Life is returning to me. I am grateful... Quote from: SteveD on 20/01/2009 18:25:00Day three of no arousal behaviors. I'm more available to other people, practicing a little, administrating my life more. I notice my meditation is up and I've lost 6 pounds. Nothing earthshaking. The Red Sea didn't part. I haven't been conversing with burning bushes...but I feel more solid internally.More "romantic" blogging. Please familiarize yourself with the 2,500+ posts for the last 2 years to get a firsthand understanding of the nature of this forum.This is a 2nd warning.
QuoteB_Jim, can you explain the DHEA/cortisol relationship just a little more?Did you get the idea from the partial successes of Relora and Fenugreek?1/ Yes. I gave a scientific theory p33 : QuoteA recent study measuring the levels of DHEA-s and cortisol, in connection with dissociative symptoms occurred during a stress shows that people with a higher DHEA-s/cortisol have fewer symptoms of dissociation and better overall performance.2/ In a lot of psychiatric disorders, the dhea/cortisol ratio is not stable. More severe than brainfog, the derealization is a dissociative state linked to this ratio.It seems there is a double regulation between cortisol and Dhea. - Dhea and cortisol are antagonists (high cortisol is opposed to low Dhea)- Dhea may be converted to cortisol if needed. (high stress) Example : panic attacks ( "A hypothetical explanation of Panic disorder" , German journal of psychiatry , 2001) QuotePanic attacks may be due to very low DHEA levels to relative to cortisol level possibly resulting from conversion of dhea to cortisol.Panic/Fears = excessive stress = excessive release of cortisol = body can't answer and converts Dhea to cortisol = dissociative state 3/ Possible explanation for Pois :We know that cortisol is release with stress and with inflammation too (cortisol is the anti-inflammatory hormone of body.)After orgasm the Pois sufferers with flu-like symptoms (dr Waldinger's Pois form) may have an allergic reaction and inflammation (Il-6). Body may answer with cortisol release and may cause an unstable cortisol/Dhea ratio. I suppose the ratio is stronger with Relora (cortisol is not "wasted" all the time, DHEA 227% increased (?) is available if needed).
B_Jim, can you explain the DHEA/cortisol relationship just a little more?Did you get the idea from the partial successes of Relora and Fenugreek?
A recent study measuring the levels of DHEA-s and cortisol, in connection with dissociative symptoms occurred during a stress shows that people with a higher DHEA-s/cortisol have fewer symptoms of dissociation and better overall performance.
Panic attacks may be due to very low DHEA levels to relative to cortisol level possibly resulting from conversion of dhea to cortisol.