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Quote from: Jaaanosik on 18/04/2020 17:06:08Do we have a net forward momentum in the background frame or not?I'll answer your question once you've answered mine:Quote from: Kryptid on 17/04/2020 23:26:15Might you know the answer to this question?So, what must the overall linear momentum be at the end of the stroke in order for the total momentum at the end of the stroke to match the total momentum before the stroke?0 angular momentum + 0 linear momentum = 0 angular momentum + ? linear momentum. What is the value of the question mark?
Do we have a net forward momentum in the background frame or not?
Might you know the answer to this question?So, what must the overall linear momentum be at the end of the stroke in order for the total momentum at the end of the stroke to match the total momentum before the stroke?0 angular momentum + 0 linear momentum = 0 angular momentum + ? linear momentum. What is the value of the question mark?
0am + 0lm = 0am + 0lm
7am + 3lm = 3am + ?lm
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 18/04/2020 17:20:260am + 0lm = 0am + 0lmSo then you agree that a complete lack of net momentum at the beginning of a stroke means that there must also be a complete lack of net momentum at the end of a stroke as well.Quote from: Jaaanosik on 18/04/2020 17:20:267am + 3lm = 3am + ?lmThat would be 7. But, of course, your ship starts out with zero total momentum before the engine turns on. So those numbers should all still be zero.Now about your newest design: I'm not sure whether the round things are balls or whether they are reels. I'm going to assume they are reels given your description. In that case, the ship will gain forward momentum as the CMGs are reeled in and the CMGs will gain momentum equal in magnitude and opposite in direction so that the total momentum remains zero.
What reference frame?
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 18/04/2020 17:28:02What reference frame?The barycenter's.
Sorry Jano, but there some laws you just can't break. Your attempt is doomed for failure.
The barycenter moves in the background frame.This not the barycenter of plain linear momentum when barycenter is stationary in the background frame,Jano
I hope you see the big problem!We have to write some values on the left side ... and we have to have some values on the right side!!!7am_1 + 3lm_1 + 5am_2 + 5lm_2 + ... + 2am_n + 8lm_n = 3am_1 + 7lm_1 + 5am_2 + 5lm_2 + ... + 8am_n + 2lm_n
At the risk of being labelled a pedant, may I remind Jano that the dimensions of momentum are MLT-1 and angular momentum ML2T-1. They are not the same thing, and not being dimensionally equivalent, cannot be added.
There is no linear momentum, so nothing happens, correct?
Not only that but when one ball is shot out it will have higher velocity than it came in.True miracle! Increase of speed out of nothing!
If v_L - v_R = 0 then v_L = v_R is true as well. Where did 0 go?
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 19/04/2020 00:23:46There is no linear momentum, so nothing happens, correct?Just because the net momentum is zero doesn't mean that nothing happens. The ball will be shot out by the spring and the rest of the device will recoil in the opposite direction. The total momentum, however, is still zero.Quote from: Jaaanosik on 19/04/2020 00:23:46Not only that but when one ball is shot out it will have higher velocity than it came in.True miracle! Increase of speed out of nothing!There is no miracle. All that has happened is that potential energy was converted into kinetic energy. If you calculate the momentum, you will see that it is conserved. The momentum of the recoil is equal to the momentum of the ball.Quote from: Jaaanosik on 19/04/2020 00:23:46If v_L - v_R = 0 then v_L = v_R is true as well. Where did 0 go?It's still there.
Is the increased tension in spring, atoms moving faster
caused by something?
Where did atoms momentum come from?
The problem is delta time. We can talk all day about energy/momentum, where they are.Force, m*dv/dt and impulse are essential for momentum, energy transfer between systems.If you say the momentum is 0 then can we have dp/dt?p - momentumJano
...It's caused by the conversion of kinetic energy into potential energy....
I have no idea why it is so difficult to admit that linear momentum is like kinetic energy and angular momentum is like potential energy.
f we convert kinetic energy to potential then we have to convert linear momentum to angular momentum.
If a magnet flies in space around a rotating magnetic field generator.When the generator is off then nothing happens the magnet flies straight ahead.If we turn on the magnetic field then we trap the magnet into a 'circular orbit', potential energy, the magnet has angular momentum.The magnet can orbit the generator multiple times around their barycenter.When the generator is turned off the magnet flies away, the potential energy is transformed into kinetic energy.
The angular momentum into the linear momentum.
Is flying out magnet going to have the same linear momentum?
How come you admit kinetic energy to potential energy conversion but you deny linear momentum to angular momentum conversion?
You keep talking that the system HAS TO BE DEFINED in a way that linear momentum is 0.The system definition can be changed. We can change the boundaries - space and time.Initial and end conditions...
So let say:generator mass m=10magnet mass m=1INlm - linear momentummagnet_lm = 10generator_lm = 0OUTmagnet_lm = 20generator_lm = 2Can we get the numbers above?
Bobolink,here is the problem that Kryptid and it appears you too do not understand.
...Not unless you violate conservation of momentum. 10 + 0 does not equal 20 + 2. If the total momentum of the system starts out at 10, then it can never be anything other than 10 (unless you add momentum in from an outside source).
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 18/04/2020 21:04:17Bobolink,here is the problem that Kryptid and it appears you too do not understand.I think we both understand that you want your conjecture to be correct so you are ignoring all attempts to help you understand the reality of the situation. It is clear that you won't listen, because that would destroy your fantasy that you have figured out something that scientists say is not possible. I don't think you are a troll, you are just someone who has a conjecture based on a limited and flawed understanding and are excited that you think you have made a great discovery. So, I guess all I can say is have fun living this fantasy. [Shrug]