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For instance, for a radio-signal to travel from New York to Chicago (1178 km) has been measured as taking exactly 3.93 milliseconds. If, the time taken for a radio-signal to travel in the opposite direction, from Chicago to New York also takes exactly the same time, it should be assumed that the measurement is correct.
However, it should be noted that the Michelson & Morley experiment was based on the idea that the earth would drag the aether around with it
Towards the end of the Nineteenth Century, efforts were made to create a world clock that would be able to give the correct time anywhere in the world, a kind of Universal clock.
It should be noted that this issue of the speed of light being constant in all directions could have been treated as more of a philosophical problem than as a practical one but this would have meant that the principles of physics were no longer true, since the solutions that were arrived at would be inaccurate.
a radio-signal to travel from New York to Chicago (1178 km) has been measured as taking exactly 3.93 milliseconds. If, the time taken for a radio-signal to travel in the opposite direction, from Chicago to New York also takes exactly the same time
The only way in which it could be thought that the speed of light was constant is if a universal aether existed, that permeated the whole of the Universe and remained absolutely at rest with respect to it.
This would mean that the position of anything that moved within the Universe could be calculated according to its position and time with respect to the aether.
The presence of Dark Matter which makes up 85% or more of all matter in the Universe, and possesses similar properties to that of the aether: [ ... ] undetectable
The problem with this scenario is that the Michelson & Morley experiment at the turn of the nineteenth Century all but ruled out the existence of an aether.
However, it should be noted that the Michelson & Morley experiment was based on the idea that the earth would drag the aether
The other solution in which the speed of light is constant, is that the speed of light is a Universal Constant and that both time and space change to enable it to remain constant in all inertial frames of reference.
Although, some are of the view that special relativity raises the possibility wormholes exist
However, another lesser known property of special relativity is that it chops and dices space and time until the possibility of any sentient life forms is reduced almost to zero.
why should this topic not be moved to new-theories?
Towards the end of the Nineteenth Century, efforts were made to create a world clock that would be able to give the correct time anywhere in the world, a kind of Universal clock
Halc: This implies that say Earth has an absolute coordinate relative to the aether. I defy you to specify such a coordinate in a meaningful way, that is not relative to another object, but only relative to the origin of the aether. Any location (of that origin in particular) specified relative to another object would be relative, not absolute. Absolute location without a reference is even more meaningless than absolute velocity. Physics even has a term "peculiar velocity" which is as good as any choice of absolute velocity, but has no concept whatsoever of absolute position.
The experiment ruled out the anisotropic nature of light, which was presumed up until then. This was a physical test with a physical conclusion. Assumption of the aether is a metaphysical assumption.
As it is treated today. Einstein was always careful to assign isotropic light speed by convention (practical philosophy) rather than suggesting that there was a test for it, which would make it physics.
And we now have clocks that are good enough to prove that you can't have a universal clock.A clock on a hill will run at a different rate from an identical clock at sea level.
However, it should be noted that the Michelson & Morley experiment was based on the idea that the earth would drag the aether around with itNot really.
The agency that runs the GPS system does not use or refer to special relativity
Quote from: HalcQuote from: McQueen on 16/05/2021 19:11:14This would mean that the position of anything that moved within the Universe could be calculated according to its position and time with respect to the aether.This implies that say Earth has an absolute coordinate relative to the aether. What exactly is a Universal frame of reference and what purpose does it serve? Sir James Jeans states that the presence of an aether would provide a Universal frame of reference. May I suggest that he had probably thought about this problem as deeply as anyone else?
Quote from: McQueen on 16/05/2021 19:11:14This would mean that the position of anything that moved within the Universe could be calculated according to its position and time with respect to the aether.This implies that say Earth has an absolute coordinate relative to the aether.
All I can say that anyone who thought that light might be anisotropic must have been as dumb as a door post, because at the end of the nineteenth Century, when all these arguments took place, scientists were as familiar with waves and their properties as the scientists of today are familiar with relativity; therefore everyone was aware that the speed of a wave is isotropic it is the same in all directions and is dependent solely on the properties of the medium, it is traveling through.
What about the Sagnac effect.
Sir James seems not to have mentioned absolute position/location at all, so you’ve only skirted the question. If the aether is supposedly everywhere, how can it be meaningful to talk about your position relative to it? No matter where you are, the aether is ‘here’. Sounds pretty useless to describe the location of anything if each thing is always described as 'at the aether'.I’m just pointing out that ‘position relative to the aether’ is no more meaningful than saying that Earth is one parsec north of 'space'.
You contradict yourself. A wave in a medium appears isotropic only if you are stationary relative to the medium. I drop a pebble off a bridge into moving water, and the waves move downstream far faster than upstream. It isn’t isotropic at all. Light was thought to be like that as well until the Michelson-Morley experiment demonstrated otherwise, forcing a rethinking of the old intuitions.And no, light is not a wave. It merely has some wave-light properties in some situations.
The wave speed, v, is how fast the wave travels and is determined by the properties of the medium in which the wave is moving. If the medium is uniform (does not change) then the wave speed will be constant. The speed of sound in dry air at 20 C is 344 m/s but this speed can change if the temperature changes. https://www.compadre.org/osp/EJSS/4473/258.htmThe speed of a wave is a property of the medium - changing the speed actually requires a change in the medium itself. If the medium does not change as a wave travels, the wave speed is constant. http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/semester1/c20_wave_speed.html
Sagnac is an empirical effect and is predicted by SR regardless of any additional metaphysical assumptions about aether or actual one-way speed of light. Of course even Newtonian mechanics predicts it, so it doesn’t much act as a falsification test between those theories.
What does any of this have to do with a universal time clock? Even if there was a detectable aether, you'd still not get that.
and that has exactly the same properties as the aether was supposed to have
As I have pointed out before, it doesn't.
Well this is a fairly, how should I put it, (dense?), statement. Has any thought been given to the size of the Universe? I don’t suppose it has, or such a statement would not have been possible. As a matter of fact my own calculations for the individual components of dark matter is that each ‘virtual’ photon that makes up dark matter has an energy of about 10-40 joules. This gels beautifully with the fact that Dark matter is thought to constitute 85% of the matter in the Universe. My theory “Gestalt Aether Theory” outlines the physical structure of photon. It states that since electrons are charged particles that are known to radiate energy, that they probably mediate their energy by emitting and absorbing ‘electric’ energy. The way in which they do this is to emit short pulses of electric energy: The emitted pulses of energy are polarized, with the initial pulses of electric energy being stronger than subsequent pulses of electric energy. This gives rise to a solenoid formation. The definition of a solenoid is that there no open loops of energy, all loops are closed loops. This gives the photon structure, because this is what these pulses of energy emitted by the electron form into. The gaps between the pulses of energy give the photon structure a capacitor type of construction that enables the initial energy it is emitted with to be conserved. The photon after emission is in a stable configuration: The truly significant point of such a photon construction, is that it enables the electron to emit all frequencies and wavelengths of photons, absolutely naturally and to mediate its energy very precisely and efficiently. Also, the question of how can an atom that is only 10-10m is diameter absorb a photon that has a wavelength of 5.65x 10-9m. becomes immaterial. Such questions become immaterial because the emitted photon maintains exactly the same shape and energy as that with which it was emitted. At present there are weird theories that all the atoms in a surface co-operate when a photon is absorbed, ina kind of co-operative movement! The theory is that the whole of the Universe is permeated by such photons that were formed at the time of the Big Bang. After all there is almost a consensus that if there had been a Big Bang, there must have been light also. The photons that were emitted at the time of the Big Bang possess exactly the same structure as that of the photon described above but possess such low energy, on the order of 10-40 Joules, that they for all purposes can evade the conservation laws and have life times compared to that of the proton or electron. Therefore, according to this theory the whole of the Universe is permeated by these infinitesimal electric dipoles that are more or less fixed in place but enjoy 360 degrees of freedom. They are oriented at random until an electron emits a ‘real’ photon at which time the ‘virtual’ photons of the virtual photon field, line up in the direction of the emitted real photon and the energy of the emitted real photon travels along this line of aligned virtual photons, whose ends rest on infinity. The existence of this ‘virtual’ photon aether, not only accounts for dark matter but also explains how light can spread out in keeping with the inverse square law, but also explains how each individual photon is able to maintain the energy with which it originally emitted. So that using monochromatic light it is possible to see the colour of light even after it has travelled great distances. And yes there are experiments that could quite easily identify this 'aether'. The aether in the form of what we hitherto bellieved to be electromagnetic fields are all around one even as one works at the computer. It is fairly certain that precise experiments could be devised.
I had alread answered this question in another thread, so I am just quoting that answer here.
Quote from: McQueen on 19/05/2021 05:41:08I had alread answered this question in another thread, so I am just quoting that answer here.It wasn't a good answer there either.In particular, you need to solve the thermalisation problem.
If you have lots of photons, all with the same energy " about 10-40 joules"And you let them bounce around where there's matter, they will have their energies shifted until they more or less resemble a black body spectrum.And, of course, if there's already a BBR spectrum, they will get churned into that.So, why are they still here (even though the CMBR has been thermalised- so it can't be a matter of "they haven't had time")?
Not enough attention is being paid to the data.
Quite.You should learn what the data is, then you won't ask stupid questions like this.
Maybe that's because you are such a bonehead
It didn’t take place and Dark Matter is the proof of that, since light can travel through dark matter with seemingly no interaction at all.