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Excerpt From "The Biology of Belief ..." By Biologist Bruce Lipton , Chapter 5 : "Biology and Belief " , " Mind over Body " :
"How the Mind Controls the Body" From the same above mentioned source and chapter : Quote : "My insights into how beliefs control biology are grounded in my studies of cloned endothelial cells,the cells that line the blood vessels. The endothelial cells I grew in culture monitor their world closely and change their behavior based on information they pick up from the environment. When I provided nutrients, the cells would gravitate toward those nutrients with the cellular equivalent of open arms.When I created a toxic environment, the cultured cells would retreat from the stimulus in an effort to wall themselves off from the noxious agents. My research focused on the membrane perception switches that controlled the shift from one behavior to the other.The primary switch I was studying has a protein receptor that responds to histamine, a molecule that the body uses in a way that is equivalent to a local emergency alarm. I found that there are two varieties of switches, H1 and H2, that respond to the same histamine signal. When activated, switches with H1 histamine receptors evoke a protection response, the type of behavior revealed by cells in toxin-containing culture dishes. Switches containing H2 histamine receptors evoke a growth response to histamine, similar to the behavior of cells cultured in the presence of nutrients.I subsequently learned that the body’s system-wide emergency response signal, adrenaline, also has switches sporting two different adrenaline-sensing receptors, called alpha and beta. The adrenaline receptors provoked the exact same cell behaviors as those elicited by histamine. When the adrenal alpha-receptor is part of an IMP switch, it provokes a protection response when adrenaline is perceived. When the beta-receptor is part of the switch, the same adrenaline signal activates a growth response. (Lipton, et al, 1992).All that was interesting, but the most exciting finding was when I simultaneously introduced both histamine and adrenaline into my tissue cultures. I found that adrenaline signals, released by the central nervous system, override the influence of histamine signals that are produced locally. This is where the politics of the community described earlier come in to play. Suppose you’re working in a bank. The branch manager gives you an order. The CEO walks in and gives you the opposite order.Which order would you follow? If you want to keep your job you’ll snap to the CEO’s order. There is a similar priority built into our biology, which requires cells to follow instructions from the head honcho nervous system, even if those signals are in conflict with local stimuli.I was excited by my experiments because I believed that they revealed on the single-cell level a truth for multicellular organisms—that the mind (acting via the central nervous system’s adrenaline) overrides the body (acting via the local histamine signal). I wanted to spell out the implications of my experiments in my research paper, but my colleagues almost died from apoplexy at the notion of injecting the body-mind connection into a paper about cell biology. So I put in a cryptic comment about understanding the significance of the study, but I couldn’t say what the significance was. My colleagues did not want me to include these implications of my research because the mind is not an acceptable biological concept. Bioscientists are conventional Newtonians—if it isn’t matter, it doesn’t count. The “mind” is a non-localized energy and therefore is not relevant to materialistic biology. Unfortunately, that perception is a “belief” that has been proven to be patently incorrect in a quantum mechanical universe!" End quote .
It's hard to explain the qualitative personality and its related morality , memory and other changes that happen to people afflicted with dementia ,Alzheimer ...but that's no conclusive evidence for the materialistic intrinsic belief assumption that consciousness is just brain activity .
When an individual grows up , he/she undergoes many experiences , learns many things and skills, is exposed to many information from the outside as well as from the inside worlds , exposed to many psychological and other challenges ,traumas ....so, his/her brain and the rest of his /her biology must cope with all that through biological changes , through neuroplasticity or through self-directed neuroplasticity ...
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 10/12/2014 18:37:59"How the Mind Controls the Body" From the same above mentioned source and chapter : Quote : "My insights into how beliefs control biology are grounded in my studies of cloned endothelial cells,the cells that line the blood vessels. The endothelial cells I grew in culture monitor their world closely and change their behavior based on information they pick up from the environment. When I provided nutrients, the cells would gravitate toward those nutrients with the cellular equivalent of open arms.When I created a toxic environment, the cultured cells would retreat from the stimulus in an effort to wall themselves off from the noxious agents. My research focused on the membrane perception switches that controlled the shift from one behavior to the other.The primary switch I was studying has a protein receptor that responds to histamine, a molecule that the body uses in a way that is equivalent to a local emergency alarm. I found that there are two varieties of switches, H1 and H2, that respond to the same histamine signal. When activated, switches with H1 histamine receptors evoke a protection response, the type of behavior revealed by cells in toxin-containing culture dishes. Switches containing H2 histamine receptors evoke a growth response to histamine, similar to the behavior of cells cultured in the presence of nutrients.I subsequently learned that the body’s system-wide emergency response signal, adrenaline, also has switches sporting two different adrenaline-sensing receptors, called alpha and beta. The adrenaline receptors provoked the exact same cell behaviors as those elicited by histamine. When the adrenal alpha-receptor is part of an IMP switch, it provokes a protection response when adrenaline is perceived. When the beta-receptor is part of the switch, the same adrenaline signal activates a growth response. (Lipton, et al, 1992).All that was interesting, but the most exciting finding was when I simultaneously introduced both histamine and adrenaline into my tissue cultures. I found that adrenaline signals, released by the central nervous system, override the influence of histamine signals that are produced locally. This is where the politics of the community described earlier come in to play. Suppose you’re working in a bank. The branch manager gives you an order. The CEO walks in and gives you the opposite order.Which order would you follow? If you want to keep your job you’ll snap to the CEO’s order. There is a similar priority built into our biology, which requires cells to follow instructions from the head honcho nervous system, even if those signals are in conflict with local stimuli.I was excited by my experiments because I believed that they revealed on the single-cell level a truth for multicellular organisms—that the mind (acting via the central nervous system’s adrenaline) overrides the body (acting via the local histamine signal). I wanted to spell out the implications of my experiments in my research paper, but my colleagues almost died from apoplexy at the notion of injecting the body-mind connection into a paper about cell biology. So I put in a cryptic comment about understanding the significance of the study, but I couldn’t say what the significance was. My colleagues did not want me to include these implications of my research because the mind is not an acceptable biological concept. Bioscientists are conventional Newtonians—if it isn’t matter, it doesn’t count. The “mind” is a non-localized energy and therefore is not relevant to materialistic biology. Unfortunately, that perception is a “belief” that has been proven to be patently incorrect in a quantum mechanical universe!" End quote .I don't quite get his point. That cells with the corresponding receptors respond to hormones and other chemical messengers that alter their function? And maintain homeostasis through negative feedback loops? And this is news or proof of the immaterial because....?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 10/12/2014 21:32:32In other words : What we take for granted as reality or as the physical universe thus might be just a mental illusion .That might be true if I were the only observer Don. But I'm not! I have support from millions of other people that experience the same observations. And this is why we test and observe and qualify those observations as genuine realities. The only other conclusion one could draw is that we are alone in our illusions and may be ourselves, nothing more than an illusion.So humanity is left with a decision. Do I believe what I observe or do I invent my own reality. I think you'll remember what I said the latter course leads one to, it's called insanity. So you have a choice Don as each and everyone of us also has. Accept the evidence of observation or declare your very existence as an illusion.Science chooses to take all reasonable information either observed by experiment or understood thru mathematics. It's all the evidence we have to judge this world by. And if, as you speculate, it's only an illusion, all the conclusions we will ever be able to draw from those illusions are also nothing more than only illusions! So why draw any conclusions at all?I prefer the reality that is in agreement with others of my own kind and the world around me.
In other words : What we take for granted as reality or as the physical universe thus might be just a mental illusion .
author=cheryl j link=topic=52526.msg446346#msg446346 date=1418268260]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 10/12/2014 18:57:47It's hard to explain the qualitative personality and its related morality , memory and other changes that happen to people afflicted with dementia ,Alzheimer ...but that's no conclusive evidence for the materialistic intrinsic belief assumption that consciousness is just brain activity .See, that's where your logic completely falls apart. The LACK of YOUR explanation for why the immaterial personality changes with biological disease, or immaterial memories disappear, or the change in the quality of subjective experience claimed by the person experiencing it has NOTHING to do with any assumption made by materialists (or Buddhists or Christians or Druids or Scientologists or anyone else you might be attempting to explain your theory to.) The lack of explanations or contradictions in your own theory remain regardless of who the listener is.
QuoteWhen an individual grows up , he/she undergoes many experiences , learns many things and skills, is exposed to many information from the outside as well as from the inside worlds , exposed to many psychological and other challenges ,traumas ....so, his/her brain and the rest of his /her biology must cope with all that through biological changes , through neuroplasticity or through self-directed neuroplasticity ...Any evidence for self directed neuroplasticity in babies? How does that work exactly?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 10/12/2014 18:27:05Excerpt From "The Biology of Belief ..." By Biologist Bruce Lipton , Chapter 5 : "Biology and Belief " , " Mind over Body " :Far out man... There's no shortage of opinion about Lipton's work:Epigenetics: It doesn’t mean what quacks think it means (Science-Based Medicine)Bruce Lipton PhD: Quack, ignoramus Bruce Lipton: Quack, Creationist, Buffoon, PhDChoprawoo returns, this time with help from Bruce Lipton
Reread that , Cheryl , and see this on the subject :Libet Benjamin-Can Conscious Experience Affect Brain Activity ?: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imprint.co.uk%2Fpdf%2FLibet.pdf&ei=Ls-JVMaiGYavU9vKgNAF&usg=AFQjCNH8Wham7kVuYqgUOVRlxbQ-yOON4w&sig2=h2AYHzF83ffqfG-yXYE8YA&bvm=bv.81456516,d.d24
Of course .He's not a materialist ,so .Lipton does flirt with new age sometimes, for example and more , but that's no reason to reject all his work , is it ?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 17:14:02Reread that , Cheryl , and see this on the subject :Libet Benjamin-Can Conscious Experience Affect Brain Activity ?: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imprint.co.uk%2Fpdf%2FLibet.pdf&ei=Ls-JVMaiGYavU9vKgNAF&usg=AFQjCNH8Wham7kVuYqgUOVRlxbQ-yOON4w&sig2=h2AYHzF83ffqfG-yXYE8YA&bvm=bv.81456516,d.d24Intentional Inhibition How the "Veto Area Exerts" Control.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19072994
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 18:16:20Of course .He's not a materialist ,so .Lipton does flirt with new age sometimes, for example and more , but that's no reason to reject all his work , is it ? The important question is whether there is any reason to accept any of it. Just one example, please, of a nonmaterialist prediction that was more accurate than a materialist one. Surely one example isn't too much to expect of your "major bombshell" - or is it just a damp fart?
It is not the brain "veto-area" that exerts control .It is the mindful volitional effort that does that through the former = the 2 are not identical , and hence cannot be equated with each other : David Cooper would agree with me on that much at least .
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/12/2014 19:08:38Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 18:16:20Of course .He's not a materialist ,so .Lipton does flirt with new age sometimes, for example and more , but that's no reason to reject all his work , is it ? The important question is whether there is any reason to accept any of it. Just one example, please, of a nonmaterialist prediction that was more accurate than a materialist one. Surely one example isn't too much to expect of your "major bombshell" - or is it just a damp fart?lol Hi, Alan : predictions lol : you're obsessed by that .Play or listen to some Jazz when that obsession gets overwhelming .Kidding .
author=cheryl j link=topic=52526.msg446389#msg446389 date=1418326345]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 19:24:18Quote from: alancalverd on 11/12/2014 19:08:38Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 18:16:20Of course .He's not a materialist ,so .Lipton does flirt with new age sometimes, for example and more , but that's no reason to reject all his work , is it ? The important question is whether there is any reason to accept any of it. Just one example, please, of a nonmaterialist prediction that was more accurate than a materialist one. Surely one example isn't too much to expect of your "major bombshell" - or is it just a damp fart?lol Hi, Alan : predictions lol : you're obsessed by that .Play or listen to some Jazz when that obsession gets overwhelming .Kidding .Yeah, a lot of scientists have a thing for all that experimenty stuff and predictions. Who knew.
So just take one thing from your list above and provide a detailed, falsifiable, immaterial explanation for it with a prediction.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 19:11:25It is not the brain "veto-area" that exerts control .It is the mindful volitional effort that does that through the former = the 2 are not identical , and hence cannot be equated with each other : David Cooper would agree with me on that much at least .I'm not sure he would. There is nothing about control or decision making that is necessarily related to feeling and qualia.
I said ,as a response to RD , that the brains of kids can't cope with growing up unless they can benefit from the intrinsic neuroplasticity , when he said why do brains need plasticity if memory and the mind are not in the brain ....Got the pic , lady painter ?
Quote from: cheryl j on 11/12/2014 19:30:17Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 19:11:25It is not the brain "veto-area" that exerts control .It is the mindful volitional effort that does that through the former = the 2 are not identical , and hence cannot be equated with each other : David Cooper would agree with me on that much at least .I'm not sure he would. There is nothing about control or decision making that is necessarily related to feeling and qualia.Mindful volitional effort of attention and action through the veto power that cannot be equated with its neuronal correlates , is a matter of ....mindful conscious aware ... intention and action , not a matter of feeling .
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 11/12/2014 18:12:43I said ,as a response to RD , that the brains of kids can't cope with growing up unless they can benefit from the intrinsic neuroplasticity , when he said why do brains need plasticity if memory and the mind are not in the brain ....Got the pic , lady painter ? Yes, you answered his question by saying babies need neuroplasticity because they need neuroplasticity.