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Pete we just do not know what existed at the Big Bang or if anything existed before it.
Consciousness is not something you can package in a box, ...
...it is something with which we can contemplate all of existence and range in back in time in thought, from the moment of creation until the end of time
With our consciousness we can reach out into the depths of truth and extend our awareness far out into the vast boundless universe'
Our thoughts are not physical objects, love is more than a physical construct of the brain, compassion and loyalty to the point of dying in the place of your buddy during warfare is not a physical thing.
Evolution has its place, but the likes of Adolf Hitler used this theory as justification for his master race philosophy, leading to the Holocaust death camps which were a prime an example of devolution, not positive evolution.
Just imagine the colossal waste of human potential due to this unspeakable evil, how many great minds were destroyed by this monstrous ideology.
We are conscious entities contained in a physical body that are our clothes we wear during our physical existence on planet earth. I am not an atheist and have a real reason for rejecting my previous position as an angry atheist.
Quote from: Ethos_ on 28/06/2016 01:45:37Quote from: Alan McDougall on 27/06/2016 16:13:09How can you possible know that?, who says the big bang was the beginning of all existence or the universe is everything that exists and "there is no need too "shout" to get your point over.?I really didn't mean to offend anyone Alan so I'll offer my apology to all those who may have taken it that way.Quote from: Alan McDougallor some form of no-material reality beyond human comprehension caused the universe to exist by contemplation.To repeat a reply you made to one of my offerings: "How can you possibly know that?"I do not know it! It is just a belief which I will not try to prove, other than I think that there must be an "Uncaused- Cause" of all existence, something that started the whole thing, call it God or the primordial consciousness or non-material spirit, or first thought, or the alpha point moment, that pervades and sustains all of reality. Maybe it is the supplier of an inexhaustible source of energy that cycles back between itself and creation in an everlasting loop.Or we are left with the uncomfortable idea of "Infinite Regression' which answers nothing. My limited logic seems to insist that everything must have had a beginning?Is that so silly of me?
Quote from: Alan McDougall on 27/06/2016 16:13:09How can you possible know that?, who says the big bang was the beginning of all existence or the universe is everything that exists and "there is no need too "shout" to get your point over.?I really didn't mean to offend anyone Alan so I'll offer my apology to all those who may have taken it that way.Quote from: Alan McDougallor some form of no-material reality beyond human comprehension caused the universe to exist by contemplation.To repeat a reply you made to one of my offerings: "How can you possibly know that?"
How can you possible know that?, who says the big bang was the beginning of all existence or the universe is everything that exists and "there is no need too "shout" to get your point over.?
or some form of no-material reality beyond human comprehension caused the universe to exist by contemplation.
You have started mentioning ''God'' in a few posts now, I think your intentions are not of a science purpose and you are slowly slipping into showing your true ''colours''.
You are ''spamming'' the forum with your posts more than I ever have
and I am the biggest ''troll'' there ever was.
Are you lonely?
Of course it doesn't. Hell, based on the knowledge we currently have on hand, the universe managed to exist for billions upon billions of years with no consciousness there to observe it.From what we know, consciousness is a relatively new development within the cosmos, and the cosmos itself couldn't care less about it. Hell, if anything, the universe as a whole seems hell bent on eradicating it! The universe is a hostile place, largely non-conducive to the evolution of consciousness. Think of how many natural ways there are for us to perish on our planet alone? Then you take some external causes, and the possibilities for our destruction are infinite! There are so many ways for us to be obliterated within our universe, for life to be completely eradicated. Because the universe couldn't care less about us or our consciousness. The universe couldn't care less about life. Humans are insignificant nothings as far as the universe as a whole is concerned. So no, the universe also couldn't care less about there being a conscious being there to observe it. And if there was some consciousness there that conceived creation to begin with, I would find it beyond likely that it wouldn't have made the universe so downright hostile towards anything that might also achieve it. That's one of the biggest points those overly religious nuts always fail to consider. Why if a universe was created for us, would it be so downright hostile of an environment towards us? Just one of those little logical things that gets in the way of their ideology. But that's a discussion for a different day I guess.
If wasn't hostile we wouldn't have a imunologic system, "evolved", we wouldn't be able to become humans in the first place, Repitiles forever... It's really unlikely that the creator was a repitale nor a humanoid, but in terms of awarenes, we humans are more related with universe than a reptile... So once and again, as much more hostile, the worst for weak life, but the better for the dominant species, us... And I will go further, even if outhere are aliens evolved, flying around with super fast ships, what in hell make one thing that they are smarter than us? I really doubt that any civilization out there, would have evolved the society so dependant on money as our is, they where probably not subjected to oxigen blue atmosphere making things difficult... For them fly a space ship could be as is to us to drive a car, we don't need to know how it work, we simple do... Do anyone serious believe that aliens would need money, hand craft to build machines to build other machines the way we did? Dig down the planet to refine minerals and all that, of course you could create a few ships, but do you really believe more complex than ours? With our systems and also the human very complex and strong body? Its a little bit apart of the question about consious after death, but we certainly missing a secund species point of view to compare, as long we don't interact with another inteligent self aware species that can at least talk, we can't possible know for real, only imagine the anwser... Of course there is life out there, inteligent too, but even if one travels trought here, they woud be more conected with the universe than us, doesn't necessarily mean that they understand things as we do, and they can't build as good too, humans are a way above the scaduale... They had bilions of years, we are like the short powerfull version, their too old already, as they say DNA canot be transformed into something different only enchanced, ours is still prety new if you thing about it... That's why we have to be conscious for the universe and preserve and enchance planets in the future, colonize, don't listen to those depressive humans that hate humans they don't know what they talking about, do they expect to find such peacefull and warmt aproche out there?
It is Descartes one step removed. "I think therefore the universe is."
If wasn't hostile we wouldn't have a imunologic system
No the universe doesn't need an observer for it to exist. This could only be true if you believed the universe revolves around you, which it most certainly does not. It objectively exists, although we subjectively interpret it.
Quote from: Zowie on 30/06/2016 22:56:52No the universe doesn't need an observer for it to exist. This could only be true if you believed the universe revolves around you, which it most certainly does not. It objectively exists, although we subjectively interpret it.Are you positive can you prove it?
Science has proven it in a million and one different ways. As has logic. But as can be proven by the billions who actually believe in the silliness of religion, sometimes you can have all the science, logic and facts in the world and people will just believe what they wanna believe anyway.