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.Was there anything specific in the first post replies you would like me to address?
Let the rocket send out a flash of light every minute.It leaves at 1200 and sends its first flash at 1201 which takes another 1min to travel back to A arriving at 1202.Similarly the flash at 1202 arrives at A 12041203 at 12061204 at 12081205 at 12101206 at 12121207 at 1214Finally at 1208 the rocket arrives at B and emits final flash, this flash along with the light reflected from the rocket (its image) arrives at A at 1216.
Say before the rocket leaves for the sun we give someone on the rocket 3 signs. On each sign is a different command to perform an action. One sign says jump up and down, another sign says wave your hands and the third sign says spin around. We tell the person on the rocket that as soon as they arrive at the sun they should randomly choose one of the three signs to hold up and we back on Earth will do whatever the sign says. Assuming the rocket leaves at 12:00 pm and magically travels at the speed of light and magically stops instantly at the sun what time does it say on our clock when we know which sign was held up and what time does it say on the rocket person's clock when he/she knows if we kept our word to do what the sign said?
Let the rocket send out a flash of light every minute.It leaves at 1200 and sends its first flash at 1201 which takes another 1min to travel back to A arriving at 1202. Similarly the flash at 1202 arrives at A 12041203 at 12061204 at 12081205 at 12101206 at 12121207 at 1214Finally at 1208 the rocket arrives at B and emits final flash, this flash along with the light reflected from the rocket (its image) arrives at A at 1216.
And please answer the question posed in this one and explain why you think your answer is correct.
My underline:Quote from: Thebox on 27/08/2016 22:03:34... Your initial thinking is correct but then if you extend the thinking the initial becomes incorrect. I am not making this up, I am using ''your'' speed of light , I did not invent anything or create anything new to explain where the initial thinking is in error when we extend the thinking. Yes you would see the Sun as it were 8 minutes ago if the only event to consider was the Photons travelling from the Sun. However when we consider the other events involved there is seemingly contradiction. ...What contradiction? What other events? What possible thing allows light to take 8 minutes to travel from the Sun, yet allows the viewer to see things at the same as they occur at that distance?
... Your initial thinking is correct but then if you extend the thinking the initial becomes incorrect. I am not making this up, I am using ''your'' speed of light , I did not invent anything or create anything new to explain where the initial thinking is in error when we extend the thinking. Yes you would see the Sun as it were 8 minutes ago if the only event to consider was the Photons travelling from the Sun. However when we consider the other events involved there is seemingly contradiction. ...
omg just read the link
Quote from: Thebox on 27/08/2016 23:12:03omg just read the linkI've read the link. It's gibberish. But if you think it's correct, just post it here where we can discuss it.
How can you be seeing the light as it was 8 minutes ago?That light has been red shifted away from the gravitational field of the sun, and then blue shifted into the gravitational field of the earth.We observe light when it reaches our eye, and to reach our eye the light travels through conditions that change its frequency...No?
...”If” we were both to release, emit or reflect a Photon at the exact same time, both opposite points would receive the Photons at the exact same time because of the constant speed of the light. In simple terms if we emitted a Photon each, at exactly 9:00:00 am on synchronised clocks, the individual Photons would reach us at exactly 9:00:01 am, simultaneous on both clocks. In relationship to sight , Photons enter our eyes at 9:00:01 am, but according to present information we observe each other as we were at 9:00:00 am.However, in this scenario we both started at precisely 9:00:00 am , we both experienced one second of time pass by as the light travelled the distance from both points. I, you and the Photon’s, all experience the passing of time of a one second duration, while the scenario event takes place.In this scenario it is important to consider the one second of ”darkness”, the absence of light. The observers exist in ”darkness” and experience ”darkness” until the light arrives at the simultaneous point in time where both observers see each other simultaneously.Thus far, this shows us that once a line of sight ”connection” is established, that sight between two observers is simultaneous by the very fact that c is constant, this also shows us that the now of your time position at the (B) end of the tube is equal to the now time position at the (A) end of the tube thus concluding we see each other as we are now and not in the past.
That would be the correct timings Colin but incomplete in events.
Quote from: Thebox on 27/08/2016 23:10:14That would be the correct timings Colin but incomplete in events. So what are the 'complete events'If the timings are correct, what are you claiming??
Quote from: timey on 27/08/2016 23:25:08How can you be seeing the light as it was 8 minutes ago?That light has been red shifted away from the gravitational field of the sun, and then blue shifted into the gravitational field of the earth.We observe light when it reaches our eye, and to reach our eye the light travels through conditions that change its frequency...No?In order to simplify this to the very simple question of transit times we are specifically ignoring relativistic and other effects eg redshift.The question is when is the image of the rocket seen, not whether it has changed colour, length, etc.Hope that clarifies.
Quote from: Colin2B on 27/08/2016 23:36:06Quote from: timey on 27/08/2016 23:25:08How can you be seeing the light as it was 8 minutes ago?That light has been red shifted away from the gravitational field of the sun, and then blue shifted into the gravitational field of the earth.We observe light when it reaches our eye, and to reach our eye the light travels through conditions that change its frequency...No?In order to simplify this to the very simple question of transit times we are specifically ignoring relativistic and other effects eg redshift.The question is when is the image of the rocket seen, not whether it has changed colour, length, etc.Hope that clarifies.If an observation has changed length in transit, it will affect its transit time...If you are dealing with a light oriented observation, I fail to see how the relativistic nature of the observation can be ignored.
OK - I can get with that...I haven't been following the thread. I just noticed a post implying that we would see the light of the sun here on earth as it was 8 minutes before when it left the sun... which is not true.
Basically if you were to look at the Sun the image you are seeing is an approx 8 minute old image and not the actual present image and you see the sun in its past , however from a different look at the situation there is an apparent contradiction.
Quote from: timey on 28/08/2016 00:30:43OK - I can get with that...I haven't been following the thread. I just noticed a post implying that we would see the light of the sun here on earth as it was 8 minutes before when it left the sun... which is not true.Basically, XYZ thinks that if two people with pre-synchronised clocks, 8 light minutes apart, waved at the "same time", they'd both be seeing each other do that at the moment they waved. i.e. they'd see each other waving at the same time as they are themselves waving. Whereas everyone else says that the two people would see the other persons wave 8 minutes later. If they both waved for 1 minute, their own arm would have stopped waving (for 7 minutes) at the time they see the other persons wave.We're ignoring all other effects, relativistic or not. In this sort of very very basic topic (light takes time to travel), it's not helpful to nitpick the minutia. This is at the "lies to children" level.
Everything (in your World), that occurs at the same time, is seen to occur, at the same time, regardless of distance. Is this a correct result of your claims?
Quote from: pzkpfw on 28/08/2016 00:44:51 Everything (in your World), that occurs at the same time, is seen to occur, at the same time, regardless of distance. Is this a correct result of your claims?That's about it in short but it is only that because of the contradiction.
Quote from: Thebox on 28/08/2016 00:52:50Quote from: pzkpfw on 28/08/2016 00:44:51 Everything (in your World), that occurs at the same time, is seen to occur, at the same time, regardless of distance. Is this a correct result of your claims?That's about it in short but it is only that because of the contradiction.The only contradiction is that you agree that light takes time to travel, yet think anyone at any distance can see something at the instant it occurs.Absolutely mind bogglingly weird.