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How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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yor_on
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #540 on:
17/01/2014 23:43:37 »
That's also why I hold out on defining what a vacuum really, really, is. Energy exist, we see it transformations, although on its own it becomes non measurable, as with objects in uniform motion. There is no extra measurable energy locally in those objects, it's all about relations between frames of reference creating the energy you find in incoming light for example. And a vacuum 'on its own' does not make for a definition of dimensions, and neither do I think it will give degrees of freedom. You need mass.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #541 on:
17/01/2014 23:50:05 »
A vacuum is a form-able thing in my thoughts, proper mass giving us the dimensions we define. And it goes back to the idea of relations, locally defined by you, defining a universe. Just as a inflation and expansion has no defined 'origin' so it should be with 'locality', it's as valid everywhere, and now you can define that 'sidereal universe' you act on, that acts on you.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #542 on:
17/01/2014 23:53:18 »
So dimensions are questionable things to me. Degrees of freedom is not, they are exactly what they are defined as, the degrees of freedom you find something to have, measured locally. So, to me, they becomes a better definition of how a universe acts than dimensions, because you can apply that same point of view at any scale.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #543 on:
17/01/2014 23:58:54 »
And then a idea of inertia fits in so well, because a inertia is a unwillingness of motion, a 'resistance' to motion. If you are able to accept the idea of Earth gravitationally accelerating, as locally measured by a accelerator (scale). then you can split it in inertia and a arrow, giving you 'gravity'.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #544 on:
18/01/2014 00:01:17 »
That makes Inertia into a constant too, I think? You could define it as a property of mass, but the way I think of it, I think it should behave as a constant, like 'c'.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #545 on:
18/01/2014 00:06:16 »
And it seems correct if you assume that we are continuously connected to that scaled down 'time less' reality. That's also what I mean by assuming that we always are as close, (loosely, and locally, defined now) to Planck scale. Doesn't matter where you are.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #546 on:
18/01/2014 00:07:44 »
And down there the rules change.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #547 on:
18/01/2014 00:13:14 »
So gravity and the arrow disappear, but 'time' and 'inertia' should be able to exist, as constants.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #548 on:
18/01/2014 00:19:08 »
The arrow and the ruler, would then be a phenomena similar to the idea of decoherence. Always locally defined, and locally equivalent everywhere. The arrow and the ruler being equivalent to 'c', which we then define to 'propagate' at a set speed in a vacuum, equivalent for all frames of reference. At least as I see it.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #549 on:
18/01/2014 13:01:50 »
Let us do it this way. You have two things. 'Yin and yang'
The soft and the hard principle in life, as one way I think the Chinese thought of it. You can translate it to a cosmos too, although it becomes rather confusing to define which is which. You can also translate it into a description of frames of reference, acknowledging that relativity is described through two frames, yours, relative what you observe, comparing.
Not that hard to get to, is it?
You don't really need to use that idea though, as long as you acknowledge that we are not the first humans on this planet, wondering about it. The ancient Greeks did too, probably we can find that most all have thought and wondered about it, at some time.
So you have a vacuum, and proper mass. Fermions and bosons. Two objects, a sun and a planet interacting. Depending on their relative motion giving a planetary observer different definitions of that suns rays 'energy'.
The energy is correct, but where is it contained? It differs, you can measure on that, but is it contained in the vacuum? That would be a rather weird proposition, as I can add how many suns I like, in different relative motion versus Earth. Depending on what sun you measure on you know will find that this vacuum then should have different 'energy values'. Do you think that is true?
So where is that energy stored?
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #550 on:
18/01/2014 13:05:59 »
One way is to define a container universe, and you need one for it, don't think you can get away from it. Then you assume that all relative motion takes itself out, then you apply an eye of a God to it and define it as there is 'global' definition of this energy 'propagating' in the vacuum, that is constant and in a equilibrium.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #551 on:
18/01/2014 13:08:24 »
When this container model meets observer dependencies it breaks down into multi verses though.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #552 on:
18/01/2014 13:10:07 »
The container model is described through 'dimensions'.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #553 on:
18/01/2014 13:12:29 »
A degree of freedom, described locally, what would that be? Could I define some center to it and then displacements from that center describing a 'motion', as in a degree of freedom. relative me (someone/thing) observing it?
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #554 on:
18/01/2014 13:16:38 »
So where is that 'energy' you find the sun to have stored?
In the detector?
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #555 on:
18/01/2014 13:21:37 »
You see, assuming lights propagation, you need to define different patches of a vacuum containing different 'energy' in each instant of measuring 'energy/rays etc' propagating through it. That one hurts my head, what happened to the neutral aspect, and equivalence, of a vacuum here?
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #556 on:
18/01/2014 13:25:14 »
You can't use a container model, with dimensions, at the same time define the vacuum as being neutral, while defining it to contain different energies, propagating? What are you doing here? Imagining the vacuum to be some sort of ocean with 'streams of light'? Then you must differ 'bosons' from a vacuum, and 'energy'. What do that leave a perfect vacuum?
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #557 on:
18/01/2014 13:27:56 »
So you then must define 'bosons' as something different from the concept of 'energy', if you want a vacuum to contain it. Or you split it in two, 'bosons and 'energy' ' and then, a perfect vacuum.
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #558 on:
18/01/2014 13:33:11 »
I guess you prefer the first, letting a 'energy' differ from bosons. Can you prove that one?
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Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
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Reply #559 on:
18/01/2014 13:36:32 »
Can you prove different patches of a vacuum containing different energies then?
I don't think so, neither the first, nor the last question. What you can prove is that using a sun (source), then placing a detector (sink) somewhere inside a defined vacuum you will find proportionality. It is from finding the relations we define the propagation.
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