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I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.
Quote from: CliveG on 02/02/2020 12:11:50The difference between your evidence and my evidence is that yours is mechanical and limited and mine is personal and experienced by individuals. Do you understand what Anecdote <> evidencemeans?Quote from: CliveG on 02/02/2020 12:11:50Your state as a confirmed absolute that I have no evidence simply because you reject my evidence.You have not put forward any evidence for me to reject.You have told me stories.Do you understand the difference?Quote from: CliveG on 02/02/2020 12:11:50You insist that the physical universe IS absolutely physical and that there is not possibility of it being a virtual reality.If you think that's true then show me where I said it.(spoiler alert; I didn't)
The difference between your evidence and my evidence is that yours is mechanical and limited and mine is personal and experienced by individuals.
Your state as a confirmed absolute that I have no evidence simply because you reject my evidence.
You insist that the physical universe IS absolutely physical and that there is not possibility of it being a virtual reality.
Is psychology a science or not?
Do you know of a meter that can measure thoughts and feelings t
s to the extent they can pick up where an intuition is coming from.
You are so locked onto anecdote, anecdote, anecdote
Then only swayed to serious consideration that there was a God when I was 60.
Quote from: CliveG on 01/02/2020 04:53:09This "rule" is not mine. It has been known for centuries.Somebody made up that rule to take advantage from the gullibles.
This "rule" is not mine. It has been known for centuries.
The interesting part is that I always believed in ghosts, mental telepathy and predicting the future. That belief never wavered because I had so much personal evidence from the time I was a small child.
Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed.
I always believed in ghosts, mental telepathy and predicting the future.
I had to point out to a Christian that the Bible says that communication with God is very difficult and indirect.
They all know they cannot be tested because they all try testing themselves. I did.
Once more. The huge number of fakes discourages people who are natural skeptics but it does not disprove the truth of the rule.
Quote from: CliveG on 03/02/2020 19:27:13The interesting part is that I always believed in ghosts, mental telepathy and predicting the future. That belief never wavered because I had so much personal evidence from the time I was a small child.I think the relevant passage is 1 Corinthians 13:11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(snip)Quote from: CliveG on 03/02/2020 19:38:06They all know they cannot be tested because they all try testing themselves. I did.So, did you pass or fail?
Quote from: CliveG on 03/02/2020 19:38:06Once more. The huge number of fakes discourages people who are natural skeptics but it does not disprove the truth of the rule.The whole point of "the rule" is that it makes it impossible to prove it either way.A damned good rhetorical device, but bugger all actual use.
The rule is very very useful. It allows those who know the rules to immediately dismiss claims by the charlatans.
I failed because of the rule.
I am surprized you even ask.
You dismiss the events as told to you because you start by assuming they have no factual basis.
These observations deal with the hard problem of consciousness and just how faulty a human brain can be.
I am constantly amazed that more cars do not hit trees that jump in front of them.
And yet you have no problem pointing to "glitches" I have which only apparently occur with regard to the supernatural.
I knew immediately it was a fake.
Did you study the Bible
You refuse to concede even one minor point for fear your whole hypothesis
Quote from: CliveG on 02/02/2020 12:11:50You insist that the physical universe IS absolutely physical and that there is not possibility of it being a virtual reality.If you think that's true then show me where I said it.(spoiler alert; I didn't)
Spirit and religion are probably among the most abused areas of humankind. And that rule is tailor made as a Get out of Jail Card. Uri Geller - total fake. Made so much money that he could keep his detractors quiet with law suits. Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed. Preacher who sits in God's lap and has fireside chats. Total fake who has fooled many and become rich. I had to point out to a Christian that the Bible says that communication with God is very difficult and indirect.No. The rule is made up by those who have gifts. They all know they cannot be tested because they all try testing themselves. I did. I have spoken to a number of people I believe to have a gift. They all had stories of testing themselves. The charlatans abuse the rules. Do you think they have a great afterlife? No. They do not believe in spirit or they would not abuse it.Once more. The huge number of fakes discourages people who are natural skeptics but it does not disprove the truth of the rule.
I had another thought. We keep thinking God is in total control and omni-all. As part of the game he has an adversary - namely Satan or the Devil. So while God gets to grant a few prayers, so does the Devil. In this case, there may have been a balancing of wishes where God granted the pray but Satan got to bomb a Cathedral.I visited a psychic and asked her if she knows whether she gets informed by the good spirits or the bad spirits. She said she had never thought about it. She just gave answers that came to her. An evil person may get information from an evil spirit.When Trump prays for a success in a military attack, and the target is praying for American disaster, who gets their prayers answered? The Devil wants as much conflict and destruction as possible (Shiva the God of Destruction) and God tries to mitigate it and have people strive to better themselves. It is under strife and conflict that one see the good in people come to the fore. So to the evil in others.
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/02/2020 14:19:40I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.Hmmm. Interesting. Seems there was a price to pay - or at least make the man think carefully about what he prays for.They say be careful what you wish for - you may just get it.
Quote from: CliveG on 03/02/2020 19:38:06 Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed.So your god did not create the universe out of nothing. Or inseminate Mary, or resurrect his onlybegotten son. Nor, in his earthly form, turn water into wine. Or part the water for Moses.. Bummer.
(snip)Does your God have a name? How do you know it?Who gives the name of satan or devil? Did he choose his own names? Is he the same being as Shiva?
Quote from: CliveG on 03/02/2020 19:18:51Quote from: alancalverd on 02/02/2020 14:19:40I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.Hmmm. Interesting. Seems there was a price to pay - or at least make the man think carefully about what he prays for.They say be careful what you wish for - you may just get it.I rather think that the good citizens of Coventry were simultaneously praying not to be bombed. But it seems your god works in mysterious ways, and not for the benefit of humanity. A proper god would not have created congenital syphilis, for example.
STDs keep people a little less promiscuous.
. It is reliable and predictable.