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:educate/exploreAtoms as clocksEvery atom is composed of a nucleus, which contains the atom’s protons and neutrons (collectively known as nucleons). Orbiting that nucleus are the atom’s electrons, which occupy different orbits, or energy levels.By absorbing or releasing exactly the right amount of energy, the electrons can ‘jump’ from one energy level to another. This is called a transition. The electrons absorb energy to move to a higher energy level (away from the nucleus), and release energy to move down an energy level (towards the nucleus).The energy released or absorbed in these transitions takes the form of electromagnetic radiation (e.g. visible light or microwaves). The same amount of energy is released every time the same transition occurs, no matter where or how many times it is measured.As with all waves, the radiation has a certain frequency (i.e., it completes a certain number of full waves in a second, similar to the way a pendulum completes a certain number of swings in a minute) and this frequency can be measured. This means that a clock can be based on the wave frequency of an electron’s transition energy in an atom, in a similar way to a clock based on the swinging of a pendulum.Why do we use caesium?The caesium atom defines the SI second. The second is 9 192 631 770 periods of the electromagnetic radiation emitted or absorbed by the ground state hyperfine transition of the caesium atom. This means that a second is the amount of time it takes for the radiation from this transition to complete 9 192 631 770 full waves.As with all atoms, no matter where or how it is measured this number will never change, meaning that it’s a far more reliable method of timekeeping than the Sun’s movement in the sky.Measuring the second in a caesium fountain atomic clockAn atomic fountain clock has three stages:Six lasers placed at right angles to each other (aimed above, below, left of, right of, in front of and behind the target) are fired at a group of caesium atoms. This is known as an optical trap: the light from the six lasers pushes the caesium atoms closer together, stopping them moving to the point where they almost stop vibrating at all. As both a particle and a wave, light has momentum (just like any other object that is moving), and is able to push very small objects such as atoms. Since atomic vibrations are what we feel as heat, the caesium atoms become ultra-cold, reaching temperatures of around one microKelvin - a tiny fraction of a degree above absolute zero (-273.15 °C).Once the atoms have been cooled down, the lasers above and below them are used to launch them upwards inside the fountain’s microwave chamber, and the atoms then fall back down under gravity. This launch-and-fall movement is why the clock is referred to as a ‘fountain’. The chamber uses microwave radiation to cause the caesium atoms’ electrons to move between two specific energy levels as they fly up and fall down through it.Finally, once the atoms have completed their flight, the energy levels of the electrons can be measured through fluorescence – atoms with electrons in different energy levels will emit different radiation patterns when probed with a laser.This whole process takes about a second, and is repeated over and over with different microwave frequencies until the frequency that causes the maximum number of caesium electrons to change energy levels is found. This frequency is the resonant frequency, and this is the frequency that is used to define the SI second. As caesium fountain clocks are improved, the microwave frequency can be more finely tuned and the SI second can be even more accurately defined.
I went through all that with Colin earlier this thread. The light is red shifted as it gets further away from O. It's wavelength gets longer. My hypothesis is that where space is m=0 that the rate of time is getting slower further away from O.
Therefore conventional physics has, despite the conservation of energy law stating that it is the sum total of potential and kinetic energy that must be conserved, has chosen to state potential energy as an energy that cannot be placed as residing anywhere.
Under the remit of this system Planck's h constant becomes a function of time dilation, where it is changes in energy level that are causing changes in the rate of time.
Quote from: timey on 12/05/2017 12:54:46I went through all that with Colin earlier this thread. The light is red shifted as it gets further away from O. It's wavelength gets longer. My hypothesis is that where space is m=0 that the rate of time is getting slower further away from O. You may have stated that, but I don't recall agreeing that it is the case. I probably didn't bother to respond.
The energy released or absorbed in these transitions takes the form of electromagnetic radiation (e.g. visible light or microwaves). The same amount of energy is released every time the same transition occurs, no matter where or how many times it is measured.
I didn't state it. I was asking for advice on the mathematical description of such, where you said that I was on safe ground with the equation E=hf because that is how conventional physics describes the energy of light.It upsets me that you be so dismissive.
timey quotes:QuoteTherefore conventional physics has, despite the conservation of energy law stating that it is the sum total of potential and kinetic energy that must be conserved, has chosen to state potential energy as an energy that cannot be placed as residing anywhere.A test object receives energy from the g-field, therefore the PE is the field yet is still part of the total energy of the mass M. (Unless you want to regress to 'action at a distance'). Remove M, remove the field!
There is no theory that explains how the energy is transferred from M to the surrounding space, and that's where I think you are underestimating the challenge.
Space will have to be an invisible structure capable of retaining energy, but different from the ether of 1900. or maybe a process totally foreign to our thinking.
GR uses a geometric deforming of spacetime to represent the behavior of a test object but that just puts off the question/explanation. What is deformed if space is a nothingness between bits of matter?
As a hypothetical example, imagine a g-field composed of vectors, all the same length, all pointing to earth center, but increasing in density toward earth center, i.e. inverse square rule. The object absorbs an impulse and change of direction at an increasing frequency as it approaches. The space is not curved, but the path is.
The perception is also altered in GR just as in SR, so your local clock will seem 'normal', and you only see differences when comparing your clock to a remote clock.
Quote :timeyUnder the remit of this system Planck's h constant becomes a function of time dilation, where it is changes in energy level that are causing changes in the rate of time. You can't redefine h as a function. The explanation and predictions of 'black body radiation' and the 'photoelectric effect' depend on it being a constant.
:timeyUnder the remit of this system Planck's h constant becomes a function of time dilation, where it is changes in energy level that are causing changes in the rate of time.
QuoteThe energy released or absorbed in these transitions takes the form of electromagnetic radiation (e.g. visible light or microwaves). The same amount of energy is released every time the same transition occurs, no matter where or how many times it is measured.That's the key point that you disagree with.
The same amount of energy is released every time the same transition occurs, no matter where or how many times it is measured.
any and all atom's 'action' in that local will be affected as the clock's action is.
:brighthub.comA spectrum also helps to prove the dynamic nature of universe. As seen earlier, each celestial object has its own characteristic spectrum. The spectral lines corresponding to an elements present in a galaxy can be identified by comparing it with the actual spectral lines recorded for each element on Earth. If the spectral lines observed from a galaxy shows a shift towards the red colour then it is called redshift.Whereas, if the shift is towards blue, then it is a blueshift. According to Doppler Effect, if a source is moving away from an observer then there is an apparent increase in wavelength of the light emitted by that source, this results in a redshift in its spectrum. Likewise, in a blueshift the source is moving towards the observer, hence a shift towards shorter wavelengths. Spectral lines obtained from most of the galaxies show a red shift, whereas the number of galaxies which show a blue shift in its spectral lines are only few, Andromeda is one among them. Thus, this shift in spectral lines provides information on the movement of galaxies. Since most of the galaxies are showing shift towards red it is commonly pointed out that the universe is expanding.
So far, all you have done is present a rather garbled version of what we already know frm GR and experiment. Nothing in what you say has any bearing on a cyclic universe, however sensible that model may be.The point of using a diffraction grating is to show that red shift is measurable without measuring temporal frequency, so whatever mechanism you propose for the desynchronisation of clocks must also apply to the change in wavelength of a photon, which suggests that shifts in atomic energy levels is not the root cause.
If f = frequency and w = wavelength then c = fw. The speed of light does not change. The frequency, wavelength ratio varies. This could be interpreted as our time dilation being the cause of a perceived change in wavelength. Where the properties of the photon are always constant. This contradicts the effects on the speed of light in a strong gravitational field. Especially at the horizon of a black hole.
I think you need to throw back in time to the ultraviolet catastrophe and before Planck invented the h constant to 'iron out' his data. The problem with the ultra violet catastrophe was (in brief and simplified) that it takes more energy to achieve the transitions of the higher frequencies of light than it does to achieve the transitions of the lower frequencies. So Planck worked out that if he chopped the input energy into equal packages and multiplied by the number of wave cycles per second that he could achieve the data curve he was seeking.
As an alternative, (although Planck's system is more dexterous in it's applications inclusive of my model's mathematics interpreted as a time function), as frequency increases simply shorten the length of a second so that the wave cycles remain a constant number, and the energy additions will be rendered as a linear progression.