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Thanks Ethos but I can look after my self ok.DonI may not have been here long but I have read this thread.Your right that Science should be metaphysically neutral but what you don't seem to understandis that it is neutral. the problem is on body has ever demonstrated anything non materialistic.call your friend Karl Popper in his grave. If he answers get him on here, then you will have a convert.
If a belief= unfalsifiable = unscientific, how can you post it on a science forum as a new scientific theory !!
Yeah, right <bs snipped>
I did post some excerpts of some scientific and of some philosophy of the mind books which were trying to come up with faslifiable non-reductionist theories of consciousness , and even with some falsifiable non-reductionist quantum theories of consciousness such as that of Henry P.Stapp ....as well, so .
So, it is an undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been assuming that reality is just material or physical = all is matter , including the mind, thanks to materialism ...
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 28/12/2013 16:21:28Yeah, right <bs snipped>We've provided reasoned arguments based on multiple examples of clear empirical evidence that are all inconsistent with your claims. You've provided nothing but bare, unsupported assertion and vague, speculative hand-waving.You can't help but be well aware that if you wish to have your proposal of there being something more than the physical taken seriously, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that. Your assertion of some extraneous immaterial non-stuff, defined only by what it is not, and with unknown provenance and properties, is incoherent, unsubstantiated, and unfalsifiable faith.I suspect you haven't even attempted to make a coherent argument for it because you know there isn't one beyond vapid speculation, and that your repeated insulting rants are because you know all the evidence is inconsistent with your claims and you realise that the 'immaterial', by definition, is unlikely ever to supply any in favour. It's a matter of an incohate faith in pursuit of the indefensible and undefinable. Good luck with that.
QuoteSo, it is an undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been assuming that reality is just material or physical = all is matter , including the mind, thanks to materialism ...No. Once again, science is a process, not a philosophy. You really need to understand the difference.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 28/12/2013 18:32:11I did post some excerpts of some scientific and of some philosophy of the mind books which were trying to come up with faslifiable non-reductionist theories of consciousness , and even with some falsifiable non-reductionist quantum theories of consciousness such as that of Henry P.Stapp ....as well, so .You do know that quantum mechanics is entirely physical, don't you Don? If quantum mechanical effects really did explain consciousness, it would torpedo your immaterial external consciousness claims.But if you'd read Stapp properly, you'd have seen that he's just trying to find a suitable gap in QM (in his case, the uncertainty of the stochastic collapse of the wave function) where he can shoehorn in some unexplained immaterial agency. I refer you back to previous criticisms of the problems with such attempts, on this thread.
What is matter ? Is it entirely physical or material ? nevermind : matter might turn out to be not made of matter , after all , so to speak thus .
Wrong , lady :Materialism is false , not because it cannot explain 'everything " (materialism is just a false conception of nature without any explanatory power whatsoever in fact .) , but mainly because it cannot account for consciousness that's irreducible to the physical .
My tons of posted material and excerpts on the subject do say why , relatively speaking , you just don't listen to them .(Not to mention that you should try as well not to take that promissory messianic materialism argument " out of the closet , in the sense that materialism will be 'explaining " tomorrow what it cannot "explain"
Simply because materialism has no explanatory power whatsoever , once again ,due to the fact that materialism is just a belief ,no science
Not to mention the fact that the false materialist world view has been equated with "the scientific world view " ,while materialism is just a belief = unfalsifiable = unscientific ,despite its scientific claims.
Otherwise , try to deliver the extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claims of materialism, regarding the nature of reality then.
As a belief= unfalsifiable = unscientific ,as all beliefs are by the way , as a belief thus ,materialism goes beyond science , beyond its scientific method thus , beyond science's jurisdiction and realm, by pretending to know the nature of reality already
The materialist mainstream "scientific world view " has been assuming , for so long now , that reality is just material or physical, including the mind
You simply cannot deny the undeniable fact that all sciences for that matter have been dominated by the materialist meta-paradigm ,the latter that has been taken for granted as "the scientific world view " .
Your materialist beliefs you take for granted as science are just acts of faith grounded in a 19th century false ideology,no science .
You refuse to address my repeated simple question ,regarding the non-existence of any extraordinary evidence for the materialist extraordinary claims regarding the nature of reality
You keep on believing that "the mind is in the brain, or that the mind is just brain activity ", without any sort of conclusive empirical evidence ,since science cannot so far , if ever , link conscious subjective states or experiences to brain activity
You just assume that the tv set or radio device do create their own received respectively images and sounds , or broadcasts : you keep on believing that Obama does live inside of the tv , as Hitler was living inside of the radio .......... when the tv set or radio are damaged ,and you cannot find no Obama inside of the tv ,or Hitler inside of the radio , then they were created by the tv set or radio ...haha
I told you many times , as Nagel did , that since consciousness is irreducible to the physical or to the material , then reductionism must be false , and since materialism does require reductionism, then , materialism is also false...I also have been repeating the fact that since there are still no serious non-materialist falsifiable theories of consciousness out there today , that does not mean that materialism is not false ...What do you want more then ?
... science should be in fact metaphysically neutral , in principle at least .
... matter might turn out to be not made of matter , after all .
How can the mind that's allegedly a product of brain activity have causal effect on matter , brain and body , and hence on brain activity as well?How can the mind have causal effects on brain activity that has allegedly created it : is that some sort of weird absurd backward form of causation ? haha : the mind causing brain activity that has allegedly caused it ?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 28/12/2013 19:35:43... matter might turn out to be not made of matter , after all .I think that sums up your level of argument.QuoteHow can the mind that's allegedly a product of brain activity have causal effect on matter , brain and body , and hence on brain activity as well?How can the mind have causal effects on brain activity that has allegedly created it : is that some sort of weird absurd backward form of causation ? haha : the mind causing brain activity that has allegedly caused it ?That's an equivocation of 'mind', semantic games. The mind is brain activity.
E gads! I've missed so much. "How can the mind have causal effects on brain activity that has allegedly created it : is that some sort of weird absurd backward form of causation ? haha : the mind causing brain activity that has allegedly caused it ?" It just gets crazier every day.