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I only claim that gravity force is for free.
You claimed that energy can be created and, at the same time, claim that it doesn't violate conservation of energy. So yes, you are claiming that that a law that says "energy cannot be created" is somehow, magically, not violated when energy is created.
Yes, the force is free,If I want to exert a force on a table, I can put a book on it.And in principle, the force will be there forever.
But we are not talking about conservation of force, but conservation of energy.Because it is on the table, rather than the floor, the book has potential energy.
But it only has that energy because I lifted the book to the table top.That energy wasn't free- I paid for it.
Do you agree that any force can set an energy?
Therefore, any energy that is created...
Quote from: Dave Lev on 04/07/2020 18:04:37Do you agree that any force can set an energy?NoObviously not, because, for a given force, the energy can be anything, including zero.
But the conservation of energy says that energy cannot be created.
Virtual particles are orbiting around the BH at the speed of light, very close to the Photon sphere.At the creation moment, the energy that is needed for their mass is given by the magnetic energy.However, as the virtual particles were already orbiting at the speed of light and they were already "lifted" to that photon sphere zone; there is no need to pay extra energy for that.So, do you agree that there is no need lift the virtual particles to that photon sphere zone and it already orbiting at the speed of light.If so, we actually only pay (by energy) for the mass in the new particles, but we get their kinetic energy + Potential energy for free.
Any Force can be converted to energy.
There is a simple formula that links between force to energy:https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/122229/what-is-the-relationship-between-force-and-kinetic-energyE/F=(1/2mv2)/(ma)E/F=vt/2So, I know that you usually say "No".That is perfectly ok with me.
Therefore, any energy that is created due to that force is for free without violating the conservation of energy.
Conservation of energy is always correct.It says that energy cannot be created and that is also correct.
...Our scientists are using this force/energy to boost their space ship for free.So they are using the energy in the gravity force to accelerate their space ship in the direction of the moon, the Sun or any other direction.All of that comes for free....The gravity force that boosts the space ship adds a severe kinetic energy to that space ship....So, do you agree that by using the Erath' gravity force, the space ship gets new kinetic energy for free.
QuoteConservation of energy is always correct.It says that energy cannot be created and that is also correct.You clearly didn't think this through.
That doesn't fix the problem that you simultaneously claim that energy can be created and also that it cannot be created. Either it can or it can't. It can't be both.
Please look at the following diagram:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolated_system#/media/File:Diagram_Systems.pngPlease focus on the left diagramWe see isolated system with exchange of matter/energy.
The issue is very simpleGravity force is only based on mass while it doesn't consume mass in order for it to exist.
So, we can consider it as some kind of "NOBLE" force
free force
which gives it the ability to add new energy.
But the creation of new energy breaks conservation of energy, because it says that you can't create energy.
That is the key element of the basic idea of "isolated system".
Quote from: Dave Lev on 06/07/2020 05:18:49Please look at the following diagram:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolated_system#/media/File:Diagram_Systems.pngPlease focus on the left diagramWe see isolated system with exchange of matter/energy.That is the opposite of what we actually see.In the left hand diagram we see an isolated system where neither matter nor energy is allowed to enter or leave.That's what isolated means in this context.
Hence, in that pre-BBT isolated universe/system, no new energy could be added out of nothing.That by itself Kills the BBT.
With regards to Theory D: The issue is quite different.If we look at our entire Universe, and with the exception of gravity force - than NO NEW ENERGY OR MASS could be created. That is very clear to all of us.I can even add that the gravity by itself can't create/add any new matter.Therefore, any new created particle MUST get its mass (or the energy it its mass) from the isolated system.
when we look at any kind of isolated system we know for sure that new energy/mass can't be created out of nothing.
However, as I have already proved, the gravity force is above any sort of isolated system.
It doesn't consume energy from the mass itself or from any other source of energy in that isolated system.
So, it's very much the same as a magnetic, electrostatic or gas in a cylinder, or stretched spring force.
QuoteQuote from: Dave Lev on Yesterday at 17:31:08The issue is very simpleGravity force is only based on mass while it doesn't consume mass in order for it to exist.So, it's very much the same as a magnetic, electrostatic or gas in a cylinder, or stretched spring force.
Quote from: Dave Lev on Yesterday at 17:31:08The issue is very simpleGravity force is only based on mass while it doesn't consume mass in order for it to exist.
QuoteQuote from: Dave Lev on Yesterday at 17:31:08free forceLike essentially any other...
Quote from: Dave Lev on Yesterday at 17:31:08free force
That is the opposite of what we actually see.In the left hand diagram we see an isolated system where neither matter nor energy is allowed to enter or leave.That's what isolated means in this context.