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V.S. Ramachandron (soulless materialist) in “The Tell-Tale Brain”
Quantum theory leads naturally to a rationally coherent conceptionof the whole of man in nature. It is profoundly different from the sunderedmechanical picture offered by classical physics. Like any really new ideathis quantum conception of man has many roots. It involves deep questions:What is consciousness? What is choice? What is chance? What can sciencetell us about the role of these things in nature? How does science itself allowus to transcend Newton’s legacy? It is to these questions that we now turn.
... It is like the whole human race having one mind, not just communicating via electronics but all having the same experience at once.
QuoteQuantum theory leads naturally to a rationally coherent conceptionof the whole of man in nature. It is profoundly different from the sunderedmechanical picture offered by classical physics. Like any really new ideathis quantum conception of man has many roots. It involves deep questions:What is consciousness? What is choice? What is chance? What can sciencetell us about the role of these things in nature? How does science itself allowus to transcend Newton’s legacy? It is to these questions that we now turn.Crap. QM underpins and explains classical physics, it does not contradict or transcend it.
Quote from: jeffreyH on 09/01/2014 13:04:08... It is like the whole human race having one mind, not just communicating via electronics but all having the same experience at once.There's a difference between entities interacting and cooperating and them all having the same experience at once. The neurons in the brain each have a unique set of connections; if they can be said to experience anything, it's unique to each. However, I may have missed your point - maybe you could explain it differently?
Quote from: dlorde on 09/01/2014 13:36:42The neurons in the brain each have a unique set of connections; if they can be said to experience anything, it's unique to each..How can neurons have any sort of conscious experiences at all , materialist scientist ?
The neurons in the brain each have a unique set of connections; if they can be said to experience anything, it's unique to each..
I haven't been following this thread at all because on consciousness it usually goes over old ground. Think of this. What is the mechanism of cooperation in the brain? Do the synapses and neurons cooperate. OK then lets say they do. What are they made of? Cells. So the cell must have a mechanism that cooperates, but wait aren't the cells made up of smaller components all cooperating to keep the cell running? So what are they made of? Oh yeah atoms and they are made of elementary particles. So to understand consciousness truly is to understand that there is something deeply embedded in particle physics that allows consciousness to emerge. It is a principle that overlays matter itself and allows lots of interconnected parts interact as if they were one whole thing. It is like the whole human race having one mind, not just communicating via electronics but all having the same experience at once.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/01/2014 16:47:30Quote from: dlorde on 09/01/2014 13:36:42The neurons in the brain each have a unique set of connections; if they can be said to experience anything, it's unique to each..How can neurons have any sort of conscious experiences at all , materialist scientist ?Who said anything about neurons having conscious experiences? Please don't impose your reading comprehension difficulties on other people's conversations.
The neurons in the brain each have a unique set of connections; if they can be said to experience anything, it's unique to each.
..how can any alleged experience not be conscious ?
P.S.: This is my thread , remember
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/01/2014 17:08:26..how can any alleged experience not be conscious ?There is a common anthropomorphic verbal usage, as in: "The company is experiencing a downturn in profit", "The Earth experienced an unusually powerful solar wind". The phrase, "If they can be said to experience anything.." is an explicit indication that the usage is questionable, intended to avoid the very interpretation you imposed; if not a reading comprehension difficulty or carelessness, a deliberate misreading.
QuoteP.S.: This is my thread , rememberStarting a thread here doesn't give you ownership or any privileges. Anyone can contribute.
I wonder why you , materialists , do think that your own false materialist extensions of your false materialist world view that has been equated with science , i wonder why you do take your false materialist views for granted as science or as valid arguments ? , by quoting materialist scientists ....= what a paradox .If you want to try to refute Stapp's dualist QT theory of consciousness that has been supported by the dualist scientific nature of QT , then you must try to do just that via science , not via materialism : see the difference ?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 08/01/2014 18:31:59I wonder why you , materialists , do think that your own false materialist extensions of your false materialist world view that has been equated with science , i wonder why you do take your false materialist views for granted as science or as valid arguments ? , by quoting materialist scientists ....= what a paradox .If you want to try to refute Stapp's dualist QT theory of consciousness that has been supported by the dualist scientific nature of QT , then you must try to do just that via science , not via materialism : see the difference ? So basically what you’re saying is “I expect you to read the excerpts that support my view, but I’m not interested in reading any of your references. Not only that but, if you even raise questions about any of my sources, I won’t discuss it, but simply tell you to re-read it, followed by insults and ridicule for not agreeing with me.”
... i can jump in in any discussion here whatsoever ,unless you would mind me doing so, via some sort of weird materialist inquisitory veto of some sort ....
P.S.: Do you think anti-matter does really exist in space somewhere ?
Anti-matter plays a significant role in "Angels and Demons " fictitious thriller by Dan Brown .
How can such an intelligent and erudite scientist such as yourself assume that consciousness is just brain activity , or that consciousness has no effects on matter ?
why do you reject the subject nature of QT as explicitly expressed by its founders and by other great minds such as Stapp and others ?
How can you deny the undeniable fact that the mind -matter separation is a scientific myth ?, and hence the mind does always intervene in the physical reality
So basically what you’re saying is “I expect you to read the excerpts that support my view, but I’m not interested in reading any of your references. Not only that but, if you even raise questions about any of my sources, I won’t discuss it, but simply tell you to re-read it, followed by insults and ridicule for not agreeing with me.”
... I will not read any materialist views on the subject...
I don't see the point as it would get lost in all the mud slinging going on. I am sure you will agree. I despair sometimes.