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Quote from: cheryl j on 20/12/2014 19:55:15Wonderful response, dlorde. Excellent summary!Thanks Cheryl, much appreciated.I thought domkarr could use a summary to save the torture of trawling through the thread!
Wonderful response, dlorde. Excellent summary!
author=dlorde link=topic=52526.msg446938#msg446938 date=1419111719]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 20/12/2014 19:32:40Only the modern substance dualism and idealist monism are consistent with QM , and can thus remain in the competition regarding the possible theories of consciousness .Materialism and property dualism ( the latter is just yet another paradoxical form of materialism and panpsychism in disguise thus ) ,for example , are incompatible with QM that has been encountering consciousness.No; not even wrong
Only the modern substance dualism and idealist monism are consistent with QM , and can thus remain in the competition regarding the possible theories of consciousness .Materialism and property dualism ( the latter is just yet another paradoxical form of materialism and panpsychism in disguise thus ) ,for example , are incompatible with QM that has been encountering consciousness.
QuoteRegarding substance dualism "dreaded interaction problem " , that has been solved by QM Lol - in a sense; as QFT eliminates substance dualism.
Regarding substance dualism "dreaded interaction problem " , that has been solved by QM
QuoteP.S.: dlorde :All materialistic (mis)interpretations of QM are just pathetic desperate attempts to rescue the determinism of reductionist materialism ,including the MW interpretation of QM,since consciousness is no material process , let alone an emergent phenomena from brain activity .So you keep banging on. Are you hoping to bore us into agreement?
P.S.: dlorde :All materialistic (mis)interpretations of QM are just pathetic desperate attempts to rescue the determinism of reductionist materialism ,including the MW interpretation of QM,since consciousness is no material process , let alone an emergent phenomena from brain activity .
QuoteThe materialistic so-called standard model of quantum field theory has to be thus approximately correct and fundamentally false , in its turn, since materialism is false ,and since it cannot account for consciousness+ since Bell's theorem and its related experiments have challenged the classical locality, classical realism and classical determinism (not to mention the classical causally closed universe ) upon which materialism was built Modern views of materialism are built on QFT (QM). I thought you might cling to the classical formulation, which is why I suggested substituting Physicalism. But on reflection, given your penchant for pigeon-holing and stereotyping by philosophical genre rather than by actual argument, I'm only responding to arguments based on what I post.
The materialistic so-called standard model of quantum field theory has to be thus approximately correct and fundamentally false , in its turn, since materialism is false ,and since it cannot account for consciousness+ since Bell's theorem and its related experiments have challenged the classical locality, classical realism and classical determinism (not to mention the classical causally closed universe ) upon which materialism was built
QuoteFurthermore , all materialistic physiological and psychological "explanations " (away ) of the effects of placebo / nocebo , of biofeedback training in controlling the autonomic nervous system , of near death experiences , of out of body experiences (the real ones that are not induced by drugs at least ) , the effects of meditation, mindfulness , the materialistic "explanations " (away ) of epigenetics , and of psi phenomena , including remote viewing ....have been refuted .I can provide you with all those refutations, if you want to .Yes, please do provide all those refutations.
Furthermore , all materialistic physiological and psychological "explanations " (away ) of the effects of placebo / nocebo , of biofeedback training in controlling the autonomic nervous system , of near death experiences , of out of body experiences (the real ones that are not induced by drugs at least ) , the effects of meditation, mindfulness , the materialistic "explanations " (away ) of epigenetics , and of psi phenomena , including remote viewing ....have been refuted .I can provide you with all those refutations, if you want to .
The simplest explanation proposed for the NDE is simply that it is fantasy, derived from wishful thinking.It is argued that the motivation is a dread or denial of death and that the content is derived from the person’s belief system. In other words, NDEs are products of the imagination, constructed from our personal and cultural expectations to protect us from facing the threat of death. Chris Carter
It is argued ...
author=RD link=topic=52526.msg446991#msg446991 date=1419187146]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 21/12/2014 18:03:21The simplest explanation proposed for the NDE is simply that it is fantasy, derived from wishful thinking.It is argued that the motivation is a dread or denial of death and that the content is derived from the person’s belief system. In other words, NDEs are products of the imagination, constructed from our personal and cultural expectations to protect us from facing the threat of death. Chris CarterYet another straw-man from Chris Carter.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 21/12/2014 18:03:21It is argued ... By whom ? : I haven't seen anybody make that argument in this thread.
[ In the year+ you've been doing this you must have regurgitated most of Chris Carter's books in this forum : you'll be lucky if he doesn't sue ].
Some people who have had a religious upbringing will interpret their NDE/OOBE experience as evidence of an afterlife , whereas others will recognise it as a vivid hallucination brought on by cerebral hypoxia.
That NDE/OOBE can be experienced by people who are nowhere near death, but under the influence of psychotropic drugs, ( e.g. ketamine) , or undergoing brain-surgery, demonstrates NDE/OOBE are not evidence of afterlife but are caused by brain-dysfunction.
I do suspect that somebody might have been sending me some malicious malware or trojans from this site : my pc crashed 3 times yesterday , 1 time tonight ,to mention just that .Not to mention that my pc webcam has been hacked and does not function anymore..... What's going on ?
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 21/12/2014 20:21:05I do suspect that somebody might have been sending me some malicious malware or trojans from this site : my pc crashed 3 times yesterday , 1 time tonight ,to mention just that .Not to mention that my pc webcam has been hacked and does not function anymore..... What's going on ?It's called paranoia Don.......................
Cheryl :Both the identity theory and the emergent property theory regarding the origin function nature and emergence of consciousness have been supported by a big zero empirical evidence ,no wonder , so how can you assume then that biological evolution can account for consciousness , let alone explain it Consciousness can never arise from biology : that's the main issue in consciousness studies by the way, if you haven't noticed that yet .Looking for consciousness in the brain is no less an inexplicably magical futile attempt than assuming that biological evolution can give rise to consciousness.
Quote author=dlorde link=topic=52526.msg446938#msg446938 date=1419111719]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 20/12/2014 19:32:40Only the modern substance dualism and idealist monism are consistent with QM , and can thus remain in the competition regarding the possible theories of consciousness .Materialism and property dualism ( the latter is just yet another paradoxical form of materialism and panpsychism in disguise thus ) ,for example , are incompatible with QM that has been encountering consciousness.No; not even wrong. Can you elaborate on that ? , please , thanks .
The materialistic so-called standard model of quantum field theory has to be thus approximately correct and fundamentally false...
dlorde : You can read above about some of the proposed psychological explanations of NDE , for example .Tomorrow ,i will display the rest of them , and then, later on , the same goes for the physiological explanations of NDE .
Quote from: Ethos_ on 21/12/2014 20:42:43Quote from: DonQuichotte on 21/12/2014 20:21:05I do suspect that somebody might have been sending me some malicious malware or trojans from this site : my pc crashed 3 times yesterday , 1 time tonight ,to mention just that .Not to mention that my pc webcam has been hacked and does not function anymore..... What's going on ?It's called paranoia Don.......................It sounds more like a virus to me.