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Can't let you go thinking you're right!U is located at the apex of a light cone representing a personal perception space. His timeline is the cone axis extending downward from zero, the apex, into negative time units. An x-y plane is centered on the apex. U considers himself at rest. An object e is moving past U in the x direction offset a distance d. The path of e is projected onto the light cone forming a hyperbola. If e is moving right to left, it is approaching from the past to its closest approach, then receding into the past (noyt the future). If e was moving left to right, it is still approaching from the past. So where is the future, typically shown as a light cone reflected in the x-y plane. If e moved from the past to the future, how would it cross the gap from one cone to the other? When a distant event is observed, it's labeled as historical. The problem is, there are two types of events. A photon lifespan begins with emission and ends with detection. This establishes an order, detection must follow emission. The time of perception or awareness of an event is the present. The time of an event is in the past, and requires additional information such as distance. U has no future light cone since he cannot perceive events beyond the present. The same distance determines how much time until perception of the event, and how much time since the event occurred in the past.
I have no idea how to even try to relate that to what I posted.
You do not see a distance planet in the past, you see it in the present
Quote from: Thebox on 03/10/2016 02:46:57I have no idea how to even try to relate that to what I posted. You seem to find yourself in that position quite frequently Mr. Box.Quote from: Thebox You do not see a distance planet in the past, you see it in the present Light takes time to reach your eye Mr. Box so we see distant objects as they were in "their past" even though we receive that belated image in our present.
Then I accuse you of not reading correctly or not understanding the topic.
Quote from: Thebox on 09/10/2016 15:40:05Then I accuse you of not reading correctly or not understanding the topic. You can accuse me of not reading correctly to which I answer: "I have read and understand your confusion Mr. Box." And you can also assume that I don't understand to which I also answer: "I along with many others here at TNS understand you Mr. Box." And the understanding that we have is this: "You are seriously confused Mr. Box and resist listening to reasonable people and to the results of professional experiment."And, if I were you, I would think twice before accusing anyone here about their ignorance of the spoken word or, in understanding the prime example of a very confused individual.
the boxEthos is saying the image of the sun takes ~8 seconds to reach earth. Another way to understand it is say we can blink out the sun. It would take ~8 seconds for the image to blink out on the Earth. Or it could blink on and it would take ~8 seconds to view the light. You confuse clear glass as seeing with the infinite speed of light. The image reaches your eyes and your eyes do not reach the image as you currently believe. No wonder you do not believe relativity.
the box This is why I keep bringing up the depth of understanding. Your current understanding is that light speed is infinite. So you believe you can view every ones present at the same time. While our own environment light speed is somewhat indistinguishable from infinite greater distances have a slightly different affect. We view their and all images from their past positions. The further the distance the more in the past. I keep trying to explain the hurdle you must overcome to understand your mistaken impression of light images. An image comes to you through time. ~186,000 miles away you view an image as it was one second ago. The photon wave takes about 8 min 20 seconds to reach the earth so you are viewing the sun as it was ~ 8 seconds in its past position not its current physical position. We are not even viewing it in its perpendicular position. We are viewing it more to the front because of the vector direction of light from the past. But that is a concept deeper than the understanding of the image coming from the past.
Consider this - The sun stops emitting light,the last light takes 8 minutes or so after the last emit before it diminishes into darkness. problem, the moon is still there in the dark whether we can see it or not. Both the earth and moon are in the present without light. Extend the distance of the moon in the dark, the moon and the earth are still in the present. THINK!
Quote from: GoC on 11/10/2016 01:31:11Consider this - The sun stops emitting light,the last light takes 8 minutes or so after the last emit before it diminishes into darkness. problem, the moon is still there in the dark whether we can see it or not. Both the earth and moon are in the present without light. Extend the distance of the moon in the dark, the moon and the earth are still in the present. THINK! QuoteYes everything is in the present.
Yes everything is in the present.
Quote Yes indeed, everything is in the present. Now let me say what science is technically saying, if we placed a tube between the earth and sun , the sun where we see it at the end of the tube is not actually there. However we know very well that the near end and far end of the tube exists in our present. Would you agree with that?If not why?added - take note, light exists in the entirety of distance between the sun and earth, all the free space contains light from point source to point source. A Quanta tunnel for vision, a coupling for sight between brain and object. We observe spectral colour, a temporal distortion of free space light. We must have an infinite speed of sight? [\Quote]Quote from: gocYou are not thinking mechanically. By mechanics we cannot view an image until the light reaches your eyes. Lets consider a detector. A detector does not view an object and cannot respond with a reading until the spectral event hits the detector itself. Lets use the sun again with the ability to blinking on and off. The sun is off then blinks on for a tenth of a second. The sun present and your present are physically separated by ~93 million miles. The sun is still moving away from the position where it blinked on and off. The light signal is rippling through space at about ~186,000 miles per second and a tenth of a light second long. The light reaches your detector and eyes about 8 minutes and 20 seconds later. The Earth moved and the sun moved from the position each occupied in that 8 seconds. So when you view an image it is no longer in the physical position it occupied when it blinked on then off.Its no different than sound for your ears. Say there is a public speaker close to you and electronic speakers half a mile away. You hear the public speaker next to you and then hear the words from the electronic speakers half a mile away. Sound is not instantaneous and neither is light. Sound from a jet you tend to look behind where the jet is physically viewed and it may be about 3 physical inches forward of where it is viewed although the view is indistinguishable from actual position in space.But I am thinking mechanics and have thought about the mechanics. You are still just repeating the present information and not considering new observation. I understand everything you just said, take that into consideration. However, let us use a sniper and bullet for trajectory. We will define the vector of the bullet's travel as X We will define a moving target that is moving left to right shown below by using the greater and less than symbols to define direction. x=>>>>>>>>>>Let us define X to be 1 mile I will ask you to choose one of the below options. 1. The sniper aims to the left of the target2. The sniper aims directly at the target3. The sniper aims to the right of the target
Yes indeed, everything is in the present. Now let me say what science is technically saying, if we placed a tube between the earth and sun , the sun where we see it at the end of the tube is not actually there. However we know very well that the near end and far end of the tube exists in our present. Would you agree with that?If not why?added - take note, light exists in the entirety of distance between the sun and earth, all the free space contains light from point source to point source. A Quanta tunnel for vision, a coupling for sight between brain and object. We observe spectral colour, a temporal distortion of free space light. We must have an infinite speed of sight? [\Quote]Quote from: gocYou are not thinking mechanically. By mechanics we cannot view an image until the light reaches your eyes. Lets consider a detector. A detector does not view an object and cannot respond with a reading until the spectral event hits the detector itself. Lets use the sun again with the ability to blinking on and off. The sun is off then blinks on for a tenth of a second. The sun present and your present are physically separated by ~93 million miles. The sun is still moving away from the position where it blinked on and off. The light signal is rippling through space at about ~186,000 miles per second and a tenth of a light second long. The light reaches your detector and eyes about 8 minutes and 20 seconds later. The Earth moved and the sun moved from the position each occupied in that 8 seconds. So when you view an image it is no longer in the physical position it occupied when it blinked on then off.Its no different than sound for your ears. Say there is a public speaker close to you and electronic speakers half a mile away. You hear the public speaker next to you and then hear the words from the electronic speakers half a mile away. Sound is not instantaneous and neither is light. Sound from a jet you tend to look behind where the jet is physically viewed and it may be about 3 physical inches forward of where it is viewed although the view is indistinguishable from actual position in space.But I am thinking mechanics and have thought about the mechanics. You are still just repeating the present information and not considering new observation. I understand everything you just said, take that into consideration. However, let us use a sniper and bullet for trajectory. We will define the vector of the bullet's travel as X We will define a moving target that is moving left to right shown below by using the greater and less than symbols to define direction. x=>>>>>>>>>>Let us define X to be 1 mile I will ask you to choose one of the below options. 1. The sniper aims to the left of the target2. The sniper aims directly at the target3. The sniper aims to the right of the target
You are not thinking mechanically. By mechanics we cannot view an image until the light reaches your eyes. Lets consider a detector. A detector does not view an object and cannot respond with a reading until the spectral event hits the detector itself. Lets use the sun again with the ability to blinking on and off. The sun is off then blinks on for a tenth of a second. The sun present and your present are physically separated by ~93 million miles. The sun is still moving away from the position where it blinked on and off. The light signal is rippling through space at about ~186,000 miles per second and a tenth of a light second long. The light reaches your detector and eyes about 8 minutes and 20 seconds later. The Earth moved and the sun moved from the position each occupied in that 8 seconds. So when you view an image it is no longer in the physical position it occupied when it blinked on then off.Its no different than sound for your ears. Say there is a public speaker close to you and electronic speakers half a mile away. You hear the public speaker next to you and then hear the words from the electronic speakers half a mile away. Sound is not instantaneous and neither is light. Sound from a jet you tend to look behind where the jet is physically viewed and it may be about 3 physical inches forward of where it is viewed although the view is indistinguishable from actual position in space.