[Bored chemist]

You failed to look at the quantitative spreadsheet.  You will see that wherever i used CO2(2-) in the above it was really CO3(2-)
I apologize.  I had an error of memory.  Human memory is not infallible.  and that goes for tim and bored chemist too.
You are both insulting in your language and never examined the original work that was done starting in 2007!
Alas this is the internet and it is the domain of instant gratifiacation and instant put downs, rather than serious work! Very Childish! Does anybody take the internet seriously anyway!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicarbonate
Now we can rectify the problem.
The ocean will get more acidic due to the acid anydride,  you have convinced me.  I don't necessarily believe everything everybody says and obviously that goes true for Tim and BC.
H2CO2 and HCO2 and CO2(2-) do not exist,  but HCO3 (-) and H2CO3 and CO3(2-) do exist and are valid.
and still my calculation is valid.  just look at the spreadsheet for gods sake, i did it years ago and i did not train as a chemist.  however it includes henrys law, Revelle and diffusion and the atmosphere and the ocean down to 1000 feet.
you won't appreciate it just by arguing on the internet.  at the end of the day you have to do some math!
 i respect BC  CO2 and co2 and Co2 can all be understood to be CO2 and the case is irrelevant.  if you understood math the symbols are clear enough capitals or no.
Gaseous CO2 and acqueous CO2 are still both gases, one is dissolved according to henrys law thats all.
Do either of you have a sense of humour? or respect?
Calling the chemist stupid isn't absolute, its like calling your brother stupid for calling you an as&h%^le.
i know hes not stupid, but his posts are minimalistic and not very meaty.  tim can't say anything
The buffer still prevents the pH from falling too much
Mg(2+) +CO3(2-) -> MgCO3
and Mg
HCO3 dissociates and makes the water more acidic
MgCO3 -> CO3(2-) + Mg(2+)
this causes
CO3(2-) +H+ -> HCO3(-)
HCO3(-)+H+ -> H2CO3
which takes H+ out of solution and makes it more alkaline!
the buffer responds
CO2+ H2O -> HCO3(-) + H+
makes the water more acidic
so CO2 added to distilled H2O makes it more acidic for sure.
I apologize for my mistake BC, its been many years and i had a brain fart!
best wishes

Whether the ocean will off gas or not is still an open question
The co2 and co3(2-) will have higher concentrations when the pH is lower
So I would guess it will but I am no longer absolutely sure because it is a living ocean. And all its life might respond with the will to survive the most basic instinct of all life on Earth!

Nice rant, but it was a bit long so I didn't really read it.
CO2 is  an acid no matter what you may say.
Have you realised that now?

[Chondrally (OP)]

Creation and Healing Intent
When one first approahces a possible source or drain, one does not know a priori whether that source is benevolent and benign or dangerous and deceitful in its intent. The best possible strategy, is to have a healing intent, but be uncommitting in terms of ones life energy at first. Just to be peaceful at the cellular level witha moist perhaps lightly sweaty glow, which is the healing intent. If one has prior intellignece about the source or the moment then one angles at with metaphorical intent as well as the cellular glow.
Then one uses ones consciousness to hear and see what if any semiotic symbols arrive upon the brain/mind/body, and deeply sense the meanings, build defense against the negative and enjoy the positive. Strive to look more deeply than the surface impressions , strive to turn the negative into positive with humour and perspective, and hence enjoy them; strive to see the negative in the positive and hence defend oneself against that also. The 2nd moment can play to higher levels yet , and serves as a neutral perceptually coded defense system for oneself, establishes a sense of humour and compassion, and starts the dialog witha a potential source. This is how communication proceeds and how sources recognize one another and steer two consciousnesses towards the light and away from the too dark. It establishes that you can heal them psychologically and we all need that.
We have all heard of the music of the spheres of ancient Greece, the muse , as it were. Well the spehre visted my apartment not so long ago , and if indeed it held the power of life and death over me, it certainly seemed that way. Seeing a spider on the Kitchen wall, and remembering the story of Robert the Bruce, after the first battle loss, and before the 2nd battle success, Robert was holed up in a cave , saw a spider , perhaps blown by the wind, its first web destroyed, its 2nd web destroyed., etc.., finally on its 4th or 5th try it succeeded in making the web, and waited for its supper. He was heartened and realized that to succeed one has to be determined and make sure the odds at each attempt were in as much your favour and as little your opponents as possible. But more importantly, the struggle towards success, you need friends, and must be as signle minded as the spider sometimes if your friends agree, and as little upset by turn arounds as much as possible.
Nowadays , hardly anyoune is an enemy, unless they are attempting to do malicious harm or destruction or to propagate darkness amongst the rest of us for their own gain. Even then they must be approached, psychologically , as aware and worth saving, and one must try to educate them. There are limits however, and if too much destruction is occuring or darkness is being propagated and not joy, it must be limited one way or the other.
It's the dental hygienist change all the threes to twos

[Bored chemist]

Word salad.
In particular, the sort of word salad that makes me think you should seek therapy.

[Chondrally (OP)]

Word salad.
In particular, the sort of word salad that makes me think you should seek therapy.

You8r just jealous cause you don't have the words and you don't understand it
By the way CO2 is a GAS, not an acid.
You'd try and eat the flesh of anybody!

[Bored chemist]

Word salad.
In particular, the sort of word salad that makes me think you should seek therapy.

You8r just jealous cause you don't have the words and you don't understand it
By the way CO2 is a GAS, not an acid.
You'd try and eat the flesh of anybody!

Why do you think a gas can't be an acid?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_gas

[Tim the Plumber]

Progress at last!
" For every ton of CO2 emitted, about 1/3 ends up dissolved in the ocean"
Why does that happen (here's another hint)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry's_law

"you have asserted you think the pH is dropping in the ocean.  please tell me where and by how much?"
Sure, it's not as if I'm the only one saying it.
It's kind of obvious- put more acid in teh air and the sea ends up getting acidified.
There are some data for the measured change in pH here
It's not just an assertion of mine; I have access to evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Do you see the difference here; I have actual evidence for my claims- whereas you don't.

You are being stupid I think it's a misunderstanding we are both saying the same thing
You are supposed to be a chemist or scientist not agreeing with populist
Jargon and epithets! A Semiotician would applaud you for appealing to a mass audience that didn't know the difference!its a good tease if we care about education!
Please tell me why you think they are putting acid in the air.
And why do you call co2 acid?
When co2 first goes into water, it forms Co2 (2-) acqueous.  This is an alkaline molecule. Please tell me if you agree with that or not? Where do the two electrons come from? And what happens to pH when co2 (2-) reacts with pure h2o? Please carry out this experiment in a lab with distilled water and tell me what the resultant pH is? Please add co2 to mineral water and tell me what the resultant pH is?  I predict the pH will be raised in the distilled water and lowered in the mineral water! I predict the electrons in the ocean come from lightning! To properly do the experiment in the lab with distilled water you might need to add a source of current to it! What happens when you add co2 to distilled water with and without a source of electrons? By the way distilled water doesn't conduct electricity very well!
It's only when co2 diffuses into mineral water that carbonic acid makes it more acidic!
A couple of decades ago a baby cow was born and they measured the amount of calcium and magnesium in it at birth. They measured all the calcium and magnesium content of its food and how much it ate and all the calcium and magnesium content of all the milk it ever produced and the content when it passed. They reckoned there was evidence that it produced more than it consumed! This is an apocryphal story told to me by 94 year old man!
By the way it DOES MATTER if they feel hurt by science!
You might need selenium, vitamin b12 , vitamin E and vitamin C

The thing is with this one that;

1, The Chemist is not stupid.

2, You have less idea about Chemistry than me. And I did not take it after the age of 13 and could not do it then. CO2 is not Co2 or co2.

3, You have no idea what you are talking about.

You failed to look at the quantitative spreadsheet.  You will see that wherever i used CO2(2-) in the above it was really CO3(2-)
I apologize.  I had an error of memory.  Human memory is not infallible.  and that goes for tim and bored chemist too.
You are both insulting in your language and never examined the original work that was done starting in 2007!
Alas this is the internet and it is the domain of instant gratifiacation and instant put downs, rather than serious work! Very Childish! Does anybody take the internet seriously anyway!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicarbonate
Now we can rectify the problem.
The ocean will get more acidic due to the acid anydride,  you have convinced me.  I don't necessarily believe everything everybody says and obviously that goes true for Tim and BC.
H2CO2 and HCO2 and CO2(2-) do not exist,  but HCO3 (-) and H2CO3 and CO3(2-) do exist and are valid.
and still my calculation is valid.  just look at the spreadsheet for gods sake, i did it years ago and i did not train as a chemist.  however it includes henrys law, Revelle and diffusion and the atmosphere and the ocean down to 1000 feet.
you won't appreciate it just by arguing on the internet.  at the end of the day you have to do some math!
 i respect BC  CO2 and co2 and Co2 can all be understood to be CO2 and the case is irrelevant.  if you understood math the symbols are clear enough capitals or no.
Gaseous CO2 and acqueous CO2 are still both gases, one is dissolved according to henrys law thats all.
Do either of you have a sense of humour? or respect?
Calling the chemist stupid isn't absolute, its like calling your brother stupid for calling you an as&h%^le.
i know hes not stupid, but his posts are minimalistic and not very meaty.  tim can't say anything
The buffer still prevents the pH from falling too much
Mg(2+) +CO3(2-) -> MgCO3
and Mg
HCO3 dissociates and makes the water more acidic
MgCO3 -> CO3(2-) + Mg(2+)
this causes
CO3(2-) +H+ -> HCO3(-)
HCO3(-)+H+ -> H2CO3
which takes H+ out of solution and makes it more alkaline!
the buffer responds
CO2+ H2O -> HCO3(-) + H+
makes the water more acidic
so CO2 added to distilled H2O makes it more acidic for sure.
I apologize for my mistake BC, its been many years and i had a brain fart!
best wishes

Whether the ocean will off gas or not is still an open question
The co2 and co3(2-) will have higher concentrations when the pH is lower
So I would guess it will but I am no longer absolutely sure because it is a living ocean. And all its life might respond with the will to survive the most basic instinct of all life on Earth! It's the will to survive that science can't predict!

i did it years ago and i did not train as a chemist

And therein lies the trouble.

I will never look at any silly spread sheet you have done.

If you were to go to the sea side and do experiments that showed this you might have a point but then I would need to see them. I would look at such.

P.S. What is CO_{3 ? And how do you get out of subscript damn it!}

[Bored chemist]

There's another reaon why you won't comment on his spreadsheet Tim,
He refuses to let us see it.

I have offered my spreadsheet to the community,  ...
And no i won't show it to you because ...

[Tim the Plumber]

There's another reaon why you won't comment on his spreadsheet Tim,
He refuses to let us see it.

I have offered my spreadsheet to the community,  ...
And no i won't show it to you because ...

Well that would make it tricky.

I have to ask why this hoped to be respected science forum does allow the mad and utterly stupid to post.

I am not against this per say but surely it should be coralled in it's own section?

[Chondrally (OP)]

Word salad.
In particular, the sort of word salad that makes me think you should seek therapy.

You8r just jealous cause you don't have the words and you don't understand it
By the way CO2 is a GAS, not an acid.
You'd try and eat the flesh of anybody!

Why do you think a gas can't be an acid?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid

Ok it's often called an acid gas because it is acidic when it comes into contact with water

[Chondrally (OP)]

There's another reaon why you won't comment on his spreadsheet Tim,
He refuses to let us see it.

I have offered my spreadsheet to the community,  ...
And no i won't show it to you because ...

You are quoting out of context if you want to see it contact me at chondrally@ gmail.com

[Bored chemist]

Word salad.
In particular, the sort of word salad that makes me think you should seek therapy.

You8r just jealous cause you don't have the words and you don't understand it
By the way CO2 is a GAS, not an acid.
You'd try and eat the flesh of anybody!

Why do you think a gas can't be an acid?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_gas

CO2 is not an acid gas either and you know it

It is an acid gas. Why do you think it is not?

That wiki page about acid gases cites CO2 as an example.
Strictly speaking (as I said before) it's an acid anhydride if you use one of the more common definitions of acids and bases..
Unless you are using the Lux Flood acid base model, in which case it is unequivocally an acid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid%E2%80%93base_reaction#Lux.E2.80.93Flood_definition

How long is it going to take you to realise that you are wrong?

[Chondrally (OP)]

There's another reaon why you won't comment on his spreadsheet Tim,
He refuses to let us see it.

I have offered my spreadsheet to the community,  ...
And no i won't show it to you because ...

You are quoting out of context if you want to see it contact me at chondrally@ gmail.com

NOAA gave Mauna Loa data in 2007 to the public that had a safety factor built in!

In 2004-2007 when i first did my analysis of the ocean and atmosphere and pH,  the CO2 atmospheric data for Mauna Loa was different than it is today.  Back then, they were basically forecasting 480 ppm for 2017 and the data for 1990 through 2007 was off.  They gave data with a safety factor built in to the public,  not the true data!

I still don't know if they are giving the true data to the public or not, so i will refrain from using that public data source this time around.  The critical points of 493 ppm and 878 ppm for the saturation of the magnesium and calcium carbonate buffers are not erroneous, and warnings remain.  It is just the timing of when they will occur that is off.  They will happen later this century and next century respectively, unless action is taken to prevent them.  We have a little extra time, but not much, and with a Trump Administration in the US that is determined to ignore almost all scientific evidence,  we may have to wait 4 to 8 years before we can see some real progress there.  The good news is that many americans, those that supported the Democrats and Hillary Clinton and Al Gore are still pushing,  and the news that a Judge has blocked the travel ban for Visa travellers,  bodes well that checks and balances are in place and that some Common Sense still remains.  Lets hope Greedy Businessmen and War Mongerers and Profiteers can be thwarted by decent people action!

[Bored chemist]

You keep talking about buffers saturating: they don't.