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On the Lighter Side
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Destroy the energy
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Destroy the energy
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LB7
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Ludovic Bavay Ubeda
Destroy the energy
«
on:
04/11/2017 15:14:57 »
No potential energy at start.
No potential energy at final.
No work to deform the walls of the device.
A lost of energy from the difference of pressure only when I move in/out the blue spheres.
At start the device:
g4.png
(39.01 kB . 428x261 - viewed 2874 times)
At final the device:
g5.png
(33.48 kB . 365x231 - viewed 2889 times)
The walls rotate around the fixed axes at bottom (axes are on the green line)
Blue color = small spheres like molecule of water but no mass and no friction
White disks = nothing in them, they are smaller than I draw !
Each blue sphere is attract by a spring. Each spring is attached at start at the green line.
In theory, the volume of the white disks is near all the volume of the container, so the volume of the blue spheres is very small, so very few springs, so no potential energy at start and no potential energy at final.
The blue spheres give a pressure to the walls like water can do under gravity. And the white disks do the same but more at right than at left, so the energy to rotate the walls is near zero.
The orientation of the springs is at 45° at start.
I have 2 choices to deformed the device:
A/ Without move in/out the blue spheres :
The orientation of the springs passed from 45° to 90° (vertical), they follow the orientation of the walls, so the green line at start don't change
No potential energy at start nor at final
No work from the walls
The sum of energy is constant
B/ I move in/out the blue spheres , Noether is not applicable (the pressure passed from P to 0 for the spheres)
The orientation of the springs passed from 45° to something like 22.5° because the blue spheres need to move to the rigth inside the container (the red line symbolized the orientation of the springs).
No potential energy at start and at final
No work from the walls
I move out only the blue spheres at right and I move in them at left, so I need an energy.
I don't recover any energy from the blue spheres when they move to the right inside the container because they are like a molecule of water in water (under gravity).
The springs have the same orientation but don't follow the orientation of the walls, I can't because the walls rotate counterclockwise and the white disk move to the left so if I want to move out the blue spheres I need to move then to the right inside the container when it is deforming.
I keep the length of the springs, and like the device is more and more like a square, I need to change the position in the green line, an end of the springs are more and more to the left.
g6.png
(42.29 kB . 421x283 - viewed 2863 times)
The length of the springs increases but like I suppose there is very few spheres inside the container, I can suppose the potential energy won by the springs could be near zero.
Note:
No mass
No gravity
No friction
All volumes are constant
3 dimensions
«
Last Edit: 05/11/2017 11:45:06 by
LB7
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Ludovic Bavay 19011971 Valenciennes
LB7
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Ludovic Bavay Ubeda
Re: No potential energy at start but a work consumed
«
Reply #1 on:
05/11/2017 08:19:26 »
I think I don't need the white disks ! just the device full with blue spheres, springs, and walls. The springs will have their orientation from 45° at start to 90° at final, like the walls. No mass, no friction, no gravity, all volumes constant, etc.
I have 2 choices for deform the device:
A/ Without move out/in the spheres: the sum of energy is constant
Potential energy at start: sqrt(2)/2
Potential energy at final: 1/2
Work of walls: sqrt(2)/2-1/2
B/ With move out/in the spheres: Noether not applicable
Potential energy at start: sqrt(2)/2
Potential energy at final: 1/2
Work of walls: sqrt(2)/2-1/2
Work needed to move out/in the spheres: sqrt(2)/2-1/2
The walls rotate from 45° to 90°
I need an energy to move out/in the spheres
The potential energy is defined by the shape and the orientation of the device.
When I move out the spheres, I rotate the walls counterclockwise of half of angle because in the same time I move to the right the blue spheres !!! I don't need any energy to move the spheres to the rigth or this don't give me any energy !
Device at start:
ds9.png
(22.69 kB . 745x469 - viewed 2444 times)
Device at final:
ds10.png
(4.19 kB . 688x425 - viewed 2390 times)
The red line shows the orientation of the springs
I resumed the movements:
se6.png
(45.44 kB . 747x501 - viewed 2440 times)
It is more like that:
«
Last Edit: 05/11/2017 11:34:46 by
LB7
»
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Ludovic Bavay 19011971 Valenciennes
LB7
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Ludovic Bavay Ubeda
Re: Destroy the energy
«
Reply #2 on:
06/11/2017 15:08:49 »
I think there is no error, the energy is destroyed.
«
Last Edit: 06/11/2017 18:34:53 by
LB7
»
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Ludovic Bavay 19011971 Valenciennes
LB7
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Ludovic Bavay Ubeda
Re: Destroy the energy
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Reply #3 on:
07/11/2017 18:44:54 »
So what nobody ? it is logical !!
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Ludovic Bavay 19011971 Valenciennes
LB7
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Ludovic Bavay Ubeda
Re: Destroy the energy
«
Reply #4 on:
11/11/2017 10:55:26 »
Hello,
Someone can help me ?
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Ludovic Bavay 19011971 Valenciennes
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