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Quote from: evan_au on 09/12/2018 20:16:57Electrical signals in wires don't travel at c.They typically travel at about 2/3c; the exact speed depends on the geometry, construction and materials of the wire and its insulation. What's the physics of that, @evan_au ?
Electrical signals in wires don't travel at c.They typically travel at about 2/3c; the exact speed depends on the geometry, construction and materials of the wire and its insulation.
Re the confusion of Westerners (including Colin2B) re their insane belief that electron's have a magical ability to transmit a pulse at c,
... each atom in a metal contributes a few free electrons, so there are rather more electrons than atoms and therefore they are spaced from each other by a little less than the spacing of the atoms - say about a tenth of a nanometre. The size of an electron is not known, but it is presumably much smaller than an atomic nucleus, which is about a millionth of a nanometre. That is, the electrons are spaced apart by more than 100,000 times their diameter. So they cannot deliver a nudge without moving, and they cannot move instantaneously because of their mass.
Quote from: mad aetherist on 11/12/2018 21:54:39Re the confusion of Westerners (including Colin2B) re their insane belief that electron's have a magical ability to transmit a pulse at c, You are misrepresenting my views. I don’t believe that electrons transmit a pulse at c in a cable, and I don’t know of other physicists who believe it either.
You are probably misunderstanding my analogy of marbles in a tube which was to illustrate that individual electrons don’t need to travel from one end of a wire to the other. The speed at which the marbles exit is the same as the speed you push them in, which if they are perfectly rigid is as slow as you like and any speed up to that of c.
By the way, shape makes no difference.
Quote from: mad aetherist on 11/12/2018 21:54:39... each atom in a metal contributes a few free electrons, so there are rather more electrons than atoms and therefore they are spaced from each other by a little less than the spacing of the atoms - say about a tenth of a nanometre. The size of an electron is not known, but it is presumably much smaller than an atomic nucleus, which is about a millionth of a nanometre. That is, the electrons are spaced apart by more than 100,000 times their diameter. So they cannot deliver a nudge without moving, and they cannot move instantaneously because of their mass.This argument is silly. You could use the same argument to suggest that atomic spacing means you can’t transmit sound through a solid and that the Sun can’t have an effect on the orbit of Saturn. Also they don’t have to move instantaneously in order to generate an em field.
In a crt there is a beam of electrons. They are spaced further apart than in copper, but left to it’s own devices the beam will diverge due to the electrons pushing each other apart.
This whole thread is based on a silly set of misunderstandings and false assumptions.
I saw a paper that mentioned that Hertz gave up doing em field tests because he kept getting instantaneous action at a distance. http://www.pandualism.com/d/instantaneous.htmlHeaviside wave theory gives a psuedo semi-IAAAD, because the Heaviside wave is travelling at c at all times, it is never static, there is no such thing as a static field (in an electric circuit). 20dec2018: When the switch is closed there is already a part of the HW at that point, & instead of reflecting at the open switch it finds that it can continue, immediately, instantaneously, hencely it is not action at a distance, it is action at zero distance, thats why the "psuedo". And of course there is a similar HW on the far side of the switch doing the same thing. The "semi" is because each HW is due to its own half of the capacitor, hencely each HW is half strength, hencely the full strength of the capacitor is not initially evident, it takes time for the two halves to team up & give the final full result, the time i think depending on the length of the circuit & the speed of light in the surrounding medium.