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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Online alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #2000 on: 01/09/2025 15:10:22 »
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If that model's predictions scared you from pursuing long term goals, I won't force you to think otherwise.
No force required, just a clear explanation of how you would actually assess and tax wealth. Two simple examples will suffice:

(a) the ownership of a capital-intensive business (like a farm or factory) that employs people but has a very small profit to investment ratio

(b) cash in the bank that is hypothecated to a public benefit, whether charitable or for profit, in the future.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #2001 on: 02/09/2025 13:44:13 »
How Amazon Built The Soviet Dream
Quote
Capitalism and socialism fought for 50 years and ended up in the same place: AI controlling your life....
This video traces how military command structures shaped both corporate hierarchies and socialist planning, leading both paths to algorithmic control at global scale. The Soviets tried centralized computer planning. America bet on free markets. Fifty years later, both ended up with AI algorithms making decisions for billions of people. Your phone became the "dial in every home" that Stafford Beer dreamed of for Chile in 1971.The question isn't capitalism vs socialism anymore. It's who controls the objective function?profit signals from millions of choices, or goals set by a small group of humans?
Either way, we're facing what Beer warned about: "we may find that the computer has invented a strategy beyond our own ability to understand."

key references:
Eden Medina - Cybernetic Revolutionaries (2011)
Stafford Beer - Brain of the Firm (1981)
Stafford Beer - Designing Freedom (1974)
Norbert Wiener - Cybernetics (1948)
W. Ross Ashby - Introduction to Cybernetics (1956)
The Battle of Chile - Patricio Guzm?n (1979)
Salvador Allende documentary - Patricio Guzm?n (2004)
U.S. Senate - Covert Action in Chile 1964-1973 (1975)
Peter Kornbluh - The Pinochet File (2003)
Ronald Coase - The Nature of the Firm (1937)
Santiago Boys Podcast

0:00 Introduction: The False Choice
2:00 Military Origins: How Both Sides Copied War Strategy
10:30 Cybernetics
12:10 Project Cybersyn
15:40 ARPANET
17:30 Birth of Amazon
22:35 Strange Convergence of Capitalism & Socialism

When the systems are smart enough to achieve their goals reliably, what they need is to have a good understanding of the universal terminal goal.
« Last Edit: 02/09/2025 14:01:14 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #2002 on: 02/09/2025 23:48:28 »
It's true that communist government and most corporate structures look and work like an army pyramid, but a capitalist society doesn't have a single centrally determined strategy: it tolerates multiple self-directing and even competing squadrons.

Note the use of "army" rather than "military".   An effective defensive air force has an inverted pyramid in which ground services, logistics, administration etc exist to keep the commissioned officers airborne, with only a very general and necessarily flexible strategic objective to protect the territory from any and every incoming attack. And there's the basis of democracy: government exists to serve the people, not to direct them.
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