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I don't need the cause to be acceleration; I just want to know what the cause is.
Quote from: Dimensional on 24/01/2023 15:13:08Isn't this just for time dilation? What about the differential aging because that is what this is really about.Yes, it is a dilation computation. If there are two paths delimited by the same two events, then it is also using those dilation equations to compute a differential age. If the delimiting events are not the same, then the calculation is still valid but it isn't a differential aging situation.
Isn't this just for time dilation? What about the differential aging because that is what this is really about.
Don't understand. You seem to be asking how acceleration is not necessary in a scenario with acceleration. If there wasn't acceleration, it would be a different scenario.So tell me, using a simple geometric example. You have a paper with 2 dots on it. You draw several lines with meandering paths between the dots. What would you consider to be a convincing argument about what 'causes' one line to be longer than another? Maybe it's the amount of ink that causes the longer lines. It isn't the number of turns taken or how sharp or gradual those turns are. The turns are equivalent to accelerations. I personally don't see it as a causal situation at all. Some lines are just longer than others. A cause might be that you had an argument with your wife this morning and took out the frustration by scribbling one of the lines furiously. So as for the 'cause' of the twin scenario, it was the one twin's decision to make this trip that makes him younger than his sibling. See what I mean about 'cause' being sort of open to interpretation?
I am not sure I am following. An event is just a point.Let me try to "prove" it to you geometrically.
Imagine a 2d spacetime diagram (as you know time is the y axis, and x is the spatial axis)
How can any 2 points horizontal with each other (in other words have the same time) have differential aging without a curve or bend?
Yes I understand. But we can say that cause should be the same for all observers as time passes (of course except in extreme cases in GR).
Imagine a 2d spacetime diagram (as you know time is the y axis, and x is the spatial axis). How can any 2 points horizontal with each other (in other words have the same time) have differential aging without a curve or bend?
instantaneous velocity change
Quote from: MikeFontenot on 24/01/2023 19:37:34instantaneous velocity changeI must take issue with anyone who uses this phrase!For any body with nonzero mass, an instantaneous velocity change requires the input of a finite quantity of energy (½m(Δv)²) in zero time, i.e infinite power. This implies that the laws of physics have been suspended, including those of relativity and time dilation. The subsequent analysis is therefore invalid.
v =at, so to find acceleration needed for a known change of v over a known period of t, you use a= v/t. but if t is zero, this is division by zero which is undefined. (not infinite).
Quote from: Dimensional on 24/01/2023 20:26:53I am not sure I am following. An event is just a point.Let me try to "prove" it to you geometrically.Prove what?QuoteImagine a 2d spacetime diagram (as you know time is the y axis, and x is the spatial axis)x and t (ct techmically) axis since y is traditionally another spatial axis.QuoteHow can any 2 points horizontal with each other (in other words have the same time) have differential aging without a curve or bend?Points in spacetime (events) don't age. If they did, they be a different point since they'd have a different t coordinate. Furthermore, two events at the same time are space-like separated. It is impossible to travel from one to the other since it would require you to do it in no time. All events at the beginning and end of scenarios like the twins scenario are time-like separated, meaning their coordinates differ more by ct than they do by x. So if the two events (ct, x) are at (0, 0) and (2, 1), something can travel between those if it moves at 0.5c. If the second event is at (2, 0) then the thing can stay stationary and get there, path length t = 2. The path length to the (2, 1) event is √(2² - 1²) = √3, shorter than the path to the (0,0) event.QuoteYes I understand. But we can say that cause should be the same for all observers as time passes (of course except in extreme cases in GR).Sorry, but still have no idea what you mean by 'cause'. Differential aging is about geometry, not causation. Causation is not the same for everybody. I like vanilla for the flavor, the other guy picks it because he thinks the drips will not be as easily seen on his shirt. Same effect, different causes. This has nothing to do with Minkowskian geometry, where the mathematics accurately describes (doesn't cause) the ages the the twins at the reunion.
For a fixed finite velocity change delta_v in a finite time delta_t, the energy required to make that happen is independent of delta_t ... i.e., it takes no more energy to change his velocity quickly (including instantaneously) than to change it slowly!
Quote from: MikeFontenot on 26/01/2023 21:06:35For a fixed finite velocity change delta_v in a finite time delta_t, the energy required to make that happen is independent of delta_t ... i.e., it takes no more energy to change his velocity quickly (including instantaneously) than to change it slowly!Which is why I discussed power, not energy.
The power DOES go to infinity as delta_t goes to zero. But that is not important.