[socratus (OP)]

“What we observe is not nature itself,
 but nature exposed to our method of questioning.
   -Heisenberg

======================
Questions.
1.
Why do Physicists say: ‘ rest mass’ and never
 ‘ potential mass/energy E= Mc^2 ‘ ?
2.
We know many electron’s parameters, but:
Why we don’t have electron’s formula ?
3.
What was before ‘big bang’ or ‘vacuum’ ?
4.
What was before gravitation or vacuum ?
==== .
Maybe these questions can help to check
 if the brain is dogmatic or no.
===========================

[lyner]

Why we don’t have electron’s formula ?

There is a 'formula', in the Schroedinger wave equation, which tells you how it behaves in a bound state  and a description of its wave properties in its de Broglie wavelength. What more do you want?
You will always be disappointed if you are after something involving just what you know already. The new stuff that Science finds out is often outside the envelope and can't be described in terms which are inside the envelope. There is not a formula 'for' anything in Science - a formula just describes behaviour.

What was before ‘big bang’ or ‘vacuum’

The question is meaningless because space / time only relate to the situation within (or 'after') what we call the period since the BB. The question might have a meaning if it used the word "outside" rather than "before".

I don't think you can allow yourself to be as concrete as you clearly would like to be.

[socratus (OP)]

Why we don’t have electron’s formula ?

There is a 'formula', in the Schroedinger wave equation, which tells you how it behaves in a bound state  and a description of its wave properties in its de Broglie wavelength. What more do you want?
You will always be disappointed if you are after something involving just what you know already. The new stuff that Science finds out is often outside the envelope and can't be described in terms which are inside the envelope. There is not a formula 'for' anything in Science - a formula just describes behaviour.

What was before ‘big bang’ or ‘vacuum’

The question is meaningless because space / time only relate to the situation within (or 'after') what we call the period since the BB. The question might have a meaning if it used the word "outside" rather than "before".

I don't think you can allow yourself to be as concrete as you clearly would like to be.

================================================================
Quote
Why we don’t have electron’s formula ?

/ sophiecentaur /
There is a 'formula', in the Schroedinger wave equation,
 which tells you how it behaves in a bound state  and
 a description of its wave properties in its de Broglie wavelength.
 What more do you want?
========= .

S.
Dualism of particle.

1.
/  sophiecentaur  /
There is a 'formula', in the Schroedinger wave equation,
 which tells you how it behaves in a bound state  and
 a description of its wave properties in its de Broglie wavelength.
=== .

S.
OK.
Where is an electron’s formula as a particle?
=== .

  / sophiecentaur  /
You will always be disappointed if you are after something
 involving just what you know already. The new stuff that
Science finds out is often outside the envelope and can't be
described in terms which are inside the envelope.
====== .

S.
The aim of Science to describe in a simple terms
 what are inside the envelope of Universe.
======== .

/ sophiecentaur /
There is not a formula 'for' anything in Science -
a formula just describes behaviour.
== .
S.
‘ a formula just describes behaviour’ of an electron or as a math
 point, or as a ball which is elastic and can change its sphere.
It is not enough.
==== .

Quote
What was before ‘big bang’ or ‘vacuum’

/  sophiecentaur  /
The question is meaningless because space / time only relate
 to the situation within (or 'after ‘) what we call the period
since the BB.
The question might have a meaning if it used the word
 "outside" rather than "before".
====== .
#
 ‘ space / time only relate  to the situation ‘
  /  sophiecentaur  /

S.
Of course you are right.
But.
Situation 1. – Space and time. ( something real)
Situation 2. – Space/Time . ( something mystical )
========= .

  / sophiecentaur  /
I don't think you can allow yourself to be as concrete
as you clearly would like to be.

S.
I try.
========== .

[lyner]

Socratus
You want a formula for an electron as a particle. In many collisions you can treat it as a billiard ball - with Momentum and KE - and get the right answer. Take the photo electric effect, for instance. Take the Mass Spectrometer.
You are SOOOO hard to please sometimes!

[socratus (OP)]

Socratus
You want a formula for an electron as a particle.
In many collisions you can treat it as a billiard ball -
with Momentum and KE - and get the right answer.
Take the photo electric effect, for instance.
Take the Mass Spectrometer.
You are SOOOO hard to please sometimes!

================================================
/  sophiecentaur /
Socratus
You want a formula for an electron as a particle.
== .

Socratus.
Yes. (!)
=========== .

/  sophiecentaur /
In many collisions you can treat it as a billiard ball - with Momentum and KE - and get the right answer.
Take the photo electric effect, for instance.
Take the Mass Spectrometer.

Socratus
Sometime electron is as a math point.
Sometime electron is as a firm billiard ball.
Sometime electron is as a elastic  billiard ball.
Sometime electron can lose all its parameters.
#
Tell me what an electron is and  I'll then tell you everything.
/ From an article./
============= .

/  sophiecentaur /
You are SOOOO hard to please sometimes!
======= .

Sorry.
It is because I have a simple peasant brain.
What to do?
No everybody is professor.
============== .
Best wishes,
Socratus.

[lyner]

Don't get clever with me young man!!!

I am a man.
I am a father.
I am a sailor.
I am a teacher.
And a few other things.

WHICH AM I?
Now think about an electron.
Cheers my boy.

[socratus (OP)]

Don't get clever with me young man!!!

I am a man.
I am a father.
I am a sailor.
I am a teacher.
And a few other things.

WHICH AM I?
Now think about an electron.
Cheers my boy.

====================================
We have two different points of view.

One is interesting to know: WHICH AM I?
Other want to understand : Who Am I ?
Who/ What is Electron?
======= .
#
The world of electron.   

But maybe these electrons are World,
where there are five continents:
the art,
 knowledge,
wars,
thrones
and the memory of forty centuries.
/ Valery Brusov./
===== .

[lyner]

Who/ What is Electron?

It is all the things we see it as.
"which is it?"
It is whichever we observe at the time.
Science may be reductionist but there is a limit to how far we can go. It is too much to expect that, if we look closer, we will find an electron to be three gear wheels connected by a tiny chain and driven by an small steam engine. As far as I am concerned, we will look deeper and find more, new, things. The hope / belief is that the new things we find will be common to objects other than electrons. But will that tell us what an electron "is"? Should we expect it to?

[Andrew K Fletcher]

"The perpetuation of science equates to safety in numbers" Andrew K Fletcher

I have enjoyed reading this thread and found it thought provoking.

[BenV]

"The perpetuation of science equates to safety in numbers"

And what does Andrew K Fletcher mean by that?

[lyner]

I think he means that you can do 'a Science' on your own and it will be valid.

[socratus (OP)]

It is all the things we see it as.
"which is it?"
 . . .
 As far as I am concerned, we will look deeper and find more,
 new, things. The hope / belief is that the new things we find
 will be common to objects other than electrons.
But will that tell us what an electron "is"?
Should we expect it to?

=====================================================

I think that Human being have enough intellect
also to understand : ‘Who/ What is an Electron? ‘

====================================

[lyner]

That's a matter of faith, I think.

[socratus (OP)]

That's a matter of faith, I think.

================================================
Do you prefer this thought ?

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe.
 / Albert Einstein. /
== .
Sometime  is difficult to quarrel with Einstein
 but sometime is possible no agree with him. 
#
Somebody is optimistic person.
Somebody is pessimist.
But maybe is right one, who knows
 when to be optimistic and when - pessimistic.
#
Our  history always was mixed with the
  human stupidity and the human wisdom.
=== .

#
It is good when the Faith confirms with the Physical Formulas.
I think this is the way of our Faith.
======================================= .