[GoC]

1) Matter/energy interacting with matter/energy leads to time dilation (the more there is and the closer together the greater the effect). How the matter/energy is moving affects this interaction.

Dilation of space does not bring things together. They increase the distance by dilation of energy. Gravity is not contraction it is dilation for electrons to go further per/cycle tick.

2) Time dilation leads to an acceleration effect towards the massive body (as explained with the red and blue shift in previous comments).

Yes but time is the cycle in electrons, in physical clocks, Don't confuse time with distance the electron has to travel. There is no fixed travel distance we can relate using timing techniques. Time is energy c to move the electrons timing is the cycle with distance being the frame.

3) Entering an ever increasing area of time dilation naturally leads to length contraction (as explained before and can be explained similar to light entering a medium like water; metamaterials can simulate this effect by continuously changing the refractive index; this also leads to a curving effect). Conservation of wavetrain/information also demands this effect. Gravity is of course different because of its effect on time/frequency

Unlikely, Dilation increases the space the electron travels in and increases the volume mass resides  so mass expands further down a gravity well. If the gravity is greater than the speed of light energy can no longer keep atoms apart and a BH of atoms next to each other with no motion within the BH.

4) Preserving the strength of the fundamental forces relative to one another forces the preservation of c locally. Wavenumber in x, y, and z will stretch/contract as time dilates such that c remains the same locally in all directions. This would look like space "warping."

There has to be communication between particles. They do not touch so where is the communication? Energy c dilation is the c locally from space and not mass. Energy moves the electrons and photons to be confounded n every frame.

5) The Plank length is derived from the strengths of the fundamental forces. The Plank length would transform just like everything else. The Plank length like the speed of light is a locally measured value.

Yes Planks length depends on the energy dilation c of space.

6) Mass wouldn't disappear entering into a gravity well even if approaching an event horizon. Sure, time is dilated but the matter is also compressed and the inertia and gravitational field of the mass is very much present.

Mass falls together when energy can no longer keep molecules apart into a BH. This happens with attraction at the speed of light. Mass expands by dilation until mass pops.

7) Gravity may dilate time (shift frequency lower) and thus increase/decrease wave number in x, y, and z to maintain a constant c locally. However, I don't think this fundamentally changes the background of the universe whatsoever. An entire blackhole gravity well Lorentz Transforms relative to a far off observer just like a small spaceship would (actual acceleration [changing speed] still causes some ripples AKA gravitational waves just like acceleration causes EM waves but Lorentz Translation, constant speed, does not).

You might have that backwards. The dilation of energy increases the volume of mass but does not increase mass. The extra volume increases the wavelength towards the red. It is mass being attracted to greater dilation of space locally that causes attraction (g=a) 32 ft/s/s.

Fields are either an extension of mass or separate physical entities where mass affects space and space affects mass. If its space then energy c comes from space to move the electrons. For relativity to work the particles of space have to be uniform and spin in complimentary association.

I have a configuration that would create relativity. Electron motion is at the speed of light. Electrons move through space in a helix. Like moving on a vibrating string but free to move in all directions and no extra dimensions.

[David Cooper (OP)]

Hi dutch,

Thanks for putting so much time into your replies - they are very much appreciated, and I'm ever more convinced that you're on the right path with it. I imagine that you've written a fair amount about this elsewhere, so I wonder if you have links to any of that so that I (and others) can read through it all without you having to rewrite it all here? Then I'll hopefully be able to go straight to discussing the deeper issues instead of dragging you back repeatedly into the shallows.

[GoC]

Hi Dutch

QuoteBy the way we can measure the one way speed of light on the Earth using atomic clocks and relativity. To measure the one-way speed of light you must use 2 or more clocks that are spatially separated. You must know when the light beam is at point A and you must know when the light beam is at point B. Einstein, Lorentz, and others exhaustively showed that fast clock transport (synchronizing with light) and slow clock transport are identical.

On the Earth all clocks tick the same at sea level. The Earths Axis either North or South down a Latitude line at sea level will only tick off distance traveled unlike the Longitude. So in affect an atomic clock can measure the speed of light by distance traveled between the north and south pole at sea level along a Latitude. If we can trust the two way speed of light then it stands to reason that we can adjust the distance for the one way speed of light with an atomic clock measured as distance by difference in ticks. All measurements are indirect in one way or another. We either trust Relativity or we have nothing to trust. The Canadians used 7 atomic clocks in a van driving from NY to SF. They found a 14 ns difference from the synchronized adjustment demonstrating relativity for the one way distance. Start out at any Latitude and travel the same road in a Longitude and back the clocks will return synchronized with the one you left. The MX result was because clocks tick at the same rate.

Apparently the Earth carries its rest frame in its Latitude similar to gravity going straight down. Gravity is another indication energy c measurements rotate with the Earth. Gravity follows potential energy, potential energy follows dilation and dilation follows attraction to the highest dilation locally. g=a towards the lowest energy level. Dilation of energy means less dense energy. When will we understand energy state is a physical issue and not a virtual one?

[David Cooper (OP)]

Start out at any Latitude and travel the same road in a Longitude and back the clocks will return synchronized with the one you left.

Not possible unless you move too slowly for the timing difference to be measurable.

[dutch]

Well that is interesting but also a lot to digest. I assume k is the Bondi factor.

No, my k is the wavenumber. I'm defining k as k = 1/λ . Normally k = 2π/λ but I'm using the non-angular form so I'm dropping the 2π. I want the same type of unit as frequency which is cycles/time. Wavenumber is cycles/distance.

I'm relying on the following fact from Relativity as an observation in Special Relativity:

t'/t = f'/f   = γ ( 1 - v/c)

x'/x = k'/k = γ (1 - v/c)

Actually in this form k' (or f') = k-bondi factor. So my k and the k-bondi factor are related.

Even with the classical Doppler Shift there is a large amount of symmetry between the k and f forms:

kmo/k = (1 - v/c)     and   kms/k = 1/(1 + v/c)

fmo/f = (1 - v/c)       and   fms/f = 1/(1 + v/c)

The classical Doppler shift treats wavenumber and frequency identically. The difference with the above is there are two different general forms so you can tell you're moving relative to some preferred frame. However, in physics experiments like the "Couder Walking Drop Experiment" the classical medium takes on Relativistic symmetry. I discuss the symmetries and mechanics of waves at length in my thread "Different View on Relativity." In any case there is a large symmetry between the forms.

Going off of the idea everything is wavelike (using quantum mechanics for support) we don't measure distance and we don't measure time directly. We measure cycles, frequency, and wavenumber.

You can look at General Relativity as warping spacetime or you can look at it as distortion of waves. In Relativity if light in a vacuum increases or decreases in wavenumber from point A to point B the space is curved. If frequency changes from point A to point B then time is warped. Remember with this I'm meaning a shift in the entire spectrum (not a specific k or f).

For the Schwartzchild Metric we have:

dτ² = (1 - rs/r) dt² - 1 / (1 - rs/r) dr² + dΩ²

The formula for the frequency is (the below are outside the event horizon):

f √(1 - rs/r) = f'

The formula for time dilation is:

t √(1 - rs/r) = τ

The formula for wavenumber in the radial direction is:

k / √(1 - rs/r) = k'

The formula for x in the radial direction is:

x / √(1 - rs/r) = x'

There is a symmetry here as there must be (conservation of information and wavetrain demands it). We use light to define our distance (actual definition of the meter is based on it). We fundamentally use it to define our time also. We can define our meter as 1 trillion cycles of a certain frequency of light. If we count 1 trillion cycles its our meter. Interferometers can accomplish doing exactly this. If we send a beam of light in towards a blackhole the light compresses and wavenumber goes up. However, acknowledging the wavelike nature of all particles leads to a different conclusion. Instead of space and time curving wave structures are distorting.

Showing how the following gives us the Lorentz Transformation:

t'/t = f'/f   = γ ( 1 - v/c)   →    t' = γ ( t - t v/c) 

x'/x = k'/k = γ (1 - v/c)   →    x' =γ (x - x v/c)

Assume the Einstein Clock Synchronization Convention (synchronize clocks and rulers with light   c t  = x  and  t = x / c)

t' = γ ( t -  v x/c²) 

x' =γ (x - v t)

The above is the Lorentz Transformation. The Einstein Clock Synchronization Convention is a method of synchronization one can always assume (but it's not the only one).

The following is always true:

t'/t = f'/f  ,   x'/x = kx'/kx  ,  y'/y = ky'/ky  ,  z'/z = kz'/kz

[GoC]

Quote from: GoC on Today at 14:08:52Start out at any Latitude and travel the same road in a Longitude and back the clocks will return synchronized with the one you left.Not possible unless you move too slowly for the timing difference to be measurable.

You have not fully comprehended the scope of atomic clocks ticking at the same rate on the Earth at sea level. This allows a fixed point all along the Latitude. Moving west of a latitude shortens the distance while moving East increases the distance. The distances cancel for two way speed of light exactly. Your clock speeds up going West and slows down going East. When you stop it remains same as all clocks at sea level. We are using all situations at sea level or another equal level. You could circle the earth 8 times at the equator west to east and lose a little time upon synchronization. When you retraced your steps that 8 times the clocks would be back in synchronization. It does not matter the speed of the clock to get there and back. Each direction will be different by c+v and c-v for distance. This is just an energy issue. You used the same fundamental energy in both directions as you did sitting still. This proves energy is of space and not mass. Energy of space remains c. Latitude is a fixed position in space for light locally only measuring distance North and South without rotation. Both directions will be equal distances. The true reason the MMX had a null result.

[David Cooper (OP)]

You have not fully comprehended the scope of atomic clocks ticking at the same rate on the Earth at sea level. This allows a fixed point all along the Latitude. Moving west of a latitude shortens the distance while moving East increases the distance. The distances cancel for two way speed of light exactly. Your clock speeds up going West and slows down going East. When you stop it remains same as all clocks at sea level. We are using all situations at sea level or another equal level. You could circle the earth 8 times at the equator west to east and lose a little time upon synchronization. When you retraced your steps that 8 times the clocks would be back in synchronization.

You've made the mistake of thinking that the trip with a clock running slow will exactly balance out the trip with the clock running fast. It won't - it will always lose more time when running slow than it gains back when running fast.