[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

Well, seems that Time was stated as derivation from motion, thus the conclusion of the Caesium atom is backwards... Time should have slowed down in function of the (now) velocity of the Caesium atoms, due dilatation of space(time), where the measurement is occurring...
 Isn't it?

[guest39538]

Well, seems that Time was stated as derivation from motion, thus the conclusion of the Caesium atom is backwards... Time should have slowed down in function of the (now) velocity of the Caesium atoms, due dilatation of space(time), where the measurement is occurring...
 Isn't it?

No , the frequency of the Caesium atom is dependent to the atom and not dependent of space although ''things'' in space do affect the Caesium frequency.
However ''things'' occupy space, ''things'' with motion that can  be timed, timed not being the same as time.
The mechanics of timing ''things'' do not interfere with absolute time and space, time and space being a whole and  interwoven as a dimensional whole. 

[GoC]

No , the frequency of the Caesium atom is dependent to the atom and not dependent of space although ''things'' in space do affect the Caesium frequency.
However ''things'' occupy space, ''things'' with motion that can  be timed, timed not being the same as time.
The mechanics of timing ''things'' do not interfere with absolute time and space, time and space being a whole and  interwoven as a dimensional whole. 

It is interesting how we each have a different understanding of time. Alex is describing time as a reaction rate. You are describing time as a c ratio. I suspect a reaction rate is a deeper understanding of c as a constant. Mass affects c as energy of motion. c always remains constant but dilation expands c for less GR zero point energy. Red shift increase is an affect of expanded less dense energy giving electrons a longer path with higher dilation

So you can argue both sides of the same coin.

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

I came to believe that spinning C is derivation of higgs field (as it is now), higgs field is setting constants on everything but energy, each particle being interconnected one with the other by their own fields, spinning at the same rate, just like perfect clocks, such particles do not experience time, although their interaction with different proportions(field) cause a delay on both as higgs is constantly seeking balance between sipping and centrifugal force...
To really understand time in our scale, one need to perfectly combine GR with QM, but the still missing piece is what is causing the C pattern?
 Einstein thought the universe was static cause everyone always considered milky way as being the universe, he could "see" the infinite continuous void of empty space beyond our galaxy horizontal plate. I mean he obviously knew that "space" was infinite, eternal as he said...
 I can't let go from this idea, that if he knew that universe is formed by hundreds of galaxies, he would once again reach the same conclusion but with the correct information, that universe is in fact an expanding event, a field that is "still" expanding (dark energy), but nonetheless a expanding field much like the first few moments of a nova... I wonder that his conclusion back there would be again that "space" is infinite and eternal, and universe is a still expansion momentum of an ordinary nova, perhaps among many others...
  For me this is relevant for my source of C, time as a whole entity, and also quantum (engine) lies much beyond our physical universe, and behaves much as a black hole/particle does...
 For me that, wherever it may be, is giving to a frozen space the C pattern converting its pure state of frozen energy into a kinetic pattern of this spinning C, and is doing that trough higgs field...
 The only truly linear motion on C "seems" to be energy cause is able to ignore higgs field... Clarifying it, everything is moving on a straight line, it's higgs field that is offering to mass a point of reference, changing linear to still sppin, both being the same...
 When one suggest that time is a whole existence of C, independent of the Caesium atom, I have to try to implement that universe is not finite nor all that is, but a bigger solar system witch all the planets and stars have went super nova, a singularity should have being there at a virtual center, but being so the field should not be expanding and much less with an increasing rate, seems to be the case that all the galaxies are just conserving momentum and that our singularity at center is less activated or even completely dispersed into heat trough out space...
 This would explain why distances are increasing, the speed of the event also increasing... I'm suggesting a scenario similar to the delay earth would felt before have noticed that our sun was gone.. Evens so factors like time and sipping C still constant... Black holes should be able to spin the electron, also mess up with space on the quantum level and produce time, but only as local, as sun is for solar system, and super massive black hole is for galaxy...
 The proportions are too chaotic to work homogeneously as those constants are, blue and red shift seems to be like interference on those constant patterns(field), as GoC said, "increasing the distance of the jump", expanding the field much beyond its capacity(C), if expanded enough it should loose the color light quality and become gin-clear(spectrum) as The box mentioned once.
 And eventually even milky way itself will reach the moment where it will feel that the center was gone, much speculation, but it's my understatement of sipping C and time, if time is an whole entity:
  Or it is a big dimension, or it's a product of expansion and quantum mechanics, or if time is in fact a "final product" motion, and proportional and constant as C, I become in conflict within myself, that the "engine" of C, thus time, lies much beyond our sight and understanding, maybe beyond universe itself...
  If not possible, if universe is all there is, undependable of it's size, time has to be a "final product" of the quantum mechanics when submitted to our universal expansion... The sipping particles does not bound to time, but inadvertently when you add expansion (motion/C) to the environment, inadvertently end up producing time on our scale,   any delay on quantum mechanics, would inevitable result in slower rate in our scale....
 If one is to thing about it, time is a primordial scale on itself, if time want but a product, a measurable one, there would be no need for scales, nor dimensions, everything would be frozen, nothing would ever have size or substance, time is there as a ruler, between scales, so universe do not mess up and accidental forces every planet or any given mass to behave as a black hole does...
 As much more one things about this, even being speculation, more plausible the jump of the particles are as important and fundamental as anything else.... My true question is why space is at C, without this visualization is very unlikely that humanity will ever figure it all out, we advance by observation, how do we observe beyond what we would never be able to observe?
 "A space that has no particles/matter, does not requires existence of time"
 Everything that is would be energy, without motion, without C...
 As long one does not have the answer, I agree with both versions too...

[guest39538]

I came to believe that spinning C is derivation of higgs field (as it is now), higgs field is setting constants on everything but energy, each particle being interconnected one with the other by their own fields, spinning at the same rate, just like perfect clocks, such particles do not experience time, although their interaction with different proportions(field) cause a delay on both as higgs is constantly seeking balance between sipping and centrifugal force...
To really understand time in our scale, one need to perfectly combine GR with QM, but the still missing piece is what is causing the C pattern?
 Einstein thought the universe was static cause everyone always considered milky way as being the universe, he could "see" the infinite continuous void of empty space beyond our galaxy horizontal plate. I mean he obviously knew that "space" was infinite, eternal as he said...
 I can't let go from this idea, that if he knew that universe is formed by hundreds of galaxies, he would once again reach the same conclusion but with the correct information, that universe is in fact an expanding event, a field that is "still" expanding (dark energy), but nonetheless a expanding field much like the first few moments of a nova... I wonder that his conclusion back there would be again that "space" is infinite and eternal, and universe is a still expansion momentum of an ordinary nova, perhaps among many others...
  For me this is relevant for my source of C, time as a whole entity, and also quantum (engine) lies much beyond our physical universe, and behaves much as a black hole/particle does...
 For me that, wherever it may be, is giving to a frozen space the C pattern converting its pure state of frozen energy into a kinetic pattern of this spinning C, and is doing that trough higgs field...
 The only truly linear motion on C "seems" to be energy cause is able to ignore higgs field... Clarifying it, everything is moving on a straight line, it's higgs field that is offering to mass a point of reference, changing linear to still sppin, both being the same...
 When one suggest that time is a whole existence of C, independent of the Caesium atom, I have to try to implement that universe is not finite nor all that is, but a bigger solar system witch all the planets and stars have went super nova, a singularity should have being there at a virtual center, but being so the field should not be expanding and much less with an increasing rate, seems to be the case that all the galaxies are just conserving momentum and that our singularity at center is less activated or even completely dispersed into heat trough out space...
 This would explain why distances are increasing, the speed of the event also increasing... I'm suggesting a scenario similar to the delay earth would felt before have noticed that our sun was gone.. Evens so factors like time and sipping C still constant... Black holes should be able to spin the electron, also mess up with space on the quantum level and produce time, but only as local, as sun is for solar system, and super massive black hole is for galaxy...
 The proportions are too chaotic to work homogeneously as those constants are, blue and red shift seems to be like interference on those constant patterns(field), as GoC said, "increasing the distance of the jump", expanding the field much beyond its capacity(C), if expanded enough it should loose the color light quality and become gin-clear(spectrum) as The box mentioned once.
 And eventually even milky way itself will reach the moment where it will feel that the center was gone, much speculation, but it's my understatement of sipping C and time, if time is an whole entity:
  Or it is a big dimension, or it's a product of expansion and quantum mechanics, or if time is in fact a "final product" motion, and proportional and constant as C, I become in conflict within myself, that the "engine" of C, thus time, lies much beyond our sight and understanding, maybe beyond universe itself...
  If not possible, if universe is all there is, undependable of it's size, time has to be a "final product" of the quantum mechanics when submitted to our universal expansion... The sipping particles does not bound to time, but inadvertently when you add expansion (motion/C) to the environment, inadvertently end up producing time on our scale,   any delay on quantum mechanics, would inevitable result in slower rate in our scale....
 If one is to thing about it, time is a primordial scale on itself, if time want but a product, a measurable one, there would be no need for scales, nor dimensions, everything would be frozen, nothing would ever have size or substance, time is there as a ruler, between scales, so universe do not mess up and accidental forces every planet or any given mass to behave as a black hole does...
 As much more one things about this, even being speculation, more plausible the jump of the particles are as important and fundamental as anything else.... My true question is why space is at C, without this visualization is very unlikely that humanity will ever figure it all out, we advance by observation, how do we observe beyond what we would never be able to observe?
 "A space that has no particles/matter, does not requires existence of time"
 Everything that is would be energy, without motion, without C...
 As long one does not have the answer, I agree with both versions too...

I do like your input, I however really need you to ''see'' the interpretation error about ''expanding'' space.
I too believe that is space is forever and infinite without boundaries. I do not  believe that space itself is expanding, I believe the red-shift evidence shows us according to present doppler use, that  bodies are moving away from us into more space.   Lets face it,  a distance star shines light in all directions, so the furthest away radius of the last observed star, is almost certainly shining the other way , a radius away from the star away from us into ''deep'' un-explored , un-observed space.  The ''blackness'' we observe between distance galaxies is actually daylight, but there is nothing large enough or reflecting enough radians of light to be observed by our conventional present technology.
I believe this Higgs field you  mention may occupy the void as an entity maybe.
I am not sure what you mean by what is causing the c pattern, but I am sure if you have c  patterns, the patters are of observer affect, in short you are stopping the light from permeating through space creating pattern or spin .  ''Linear torque twist.''

Space does not have slits.

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

Much appreciated, I do like it, The ''blackness'' we observe between distance galaxies is actually daylight, but there is nothing large enough or reflecting enough radians of light to be observed by our conventional present technology. "

  About C patter, it only cross my mind when I decide to consider space as an infinite field, where the "momentum universe" (big bang/nova) is still "expanding"... My concept of expansion if surelly present when thinking about blackholes as centrifugal force, spin as one would say... But I do consider that all this field we call universe is a momentum of a nova expansion...
  If space and time are existing in coorelation, I do accept that the reagion of any nova when the star explodes is temporarily submited to a expansion, and on that few secunds, the interior experience a local existence of time, different from the one on the exterior... AQs I do wonder we are expericing our from universe...
  I see space as a void, altough when I do accept universe as a limited C existence that is still expanding over nothing, than I do not need that pattern, it must be somehow related with sppining particles and blackholes on control...

 But if I do accept universe as being a still expanding super nova, an ordinary momentum over a "already existing" field of "energy", I tend to seek for a more deeper resolution...
  If universe is nothing but a still expanding momentum of an ordinary nova, over a space that was already there, light does not make sense...
  For so, I'm considering both factors, sppin and expansion, as being of different origins...  C would be the expansion itself, it belongs to a still borning universe, altough for me the spin, the whole "engine" of quantum mechanics, was already there much earlier than universe, I relate with empty space all the patterns of quantum mechanics... In a sort version i'm wondering that quantum mechanics dictates and operate particles and energy, on and from the void, and a good topic for that is both gravitron and higgs boson...

 See I do believe that C is for expansion(local/universe), as sppining "C" is for (space/energy), one existing and coodepending on each other, but nonentless one being a constant, and other being a momentum...
   If one is to reverse our so called big bang, I do believe that void would be all there was, frozen energy, a higgs field different from our own on the present, a frozen entity of energy as a whole existence, with no scales and without time... one could consider that as a frozen particle, that is vast as infinity...

 Somethign was happen or started to happen on the center, maybe from the interaction between two dimentions.  Yes this is merely speculation, but in terms of beyond the existence of the universe, basically one had a perfect, predictable entity, if there was a pattern presented it should have being  opossit charge and balance...
 I do make an Idea of what happened, there's no way to see or to know for us.
 The point is: When I consider space as an whole entity eternal and infite, two possibilities come to mind.
1- "space" has a structure with a virtual center that is constanty cicling the entity, twisting and stretching it, spliting it into fractions (quanta), determining all the constants...
 i do picture something, like a rupture, or an eye of a hurricane, with a very eliptical shape, but that more than sppin is also sort of rolling space in as if it was a hope, stretching it, raging it into smal pieces, on the quantum level... Imagine something like the momentum when a black hole is feeding on a gass cloud, now imagine that:
  A sort of singularity that grew so wide and so large, that is started to work as an ring that started to propagate itself as it feeds on the fabric itself...
  A easy way is to watch a spherical rock hitting a lakes surface, the wave is propagating trough the fabric, well on this scenario, the wave is the ring, ans is propagting itself troght the lake... Messing with it from inside out, stetching and sppining all water in there atributing to it a ciclic expansion and twisting proprieties...

 Imagien that we (universe) is alreadyexisting and born from inside out this already expanding ring.
 Such ring would be feeding from primordial energy, expanding itself, lefting behind only its patterns constantly submiting the interior to it, and also forming this void, tht for me on this scenario is nothing less than knetic energy from this very expansion...
  This red shift on thsi scenario seems trully to be as you mentioned, perhaps by very different reasons, but nentless I agree that the "gin-clear" out there is also red shift, more precisely what happen with photons beyond C, the colour beyond the red shift, that is also happening even where there is nothing to see... There is nothing to see for the distance is to great and C is constant...

 The secund cnfiguration would make universe become a simple faction of a eliptical hyper horizontal disk, of a super massive singularity, white hole or primordial black hole made of light, I'm not fan of this theory for it seems not to provide a correct expansion...
   I do believe that black holes are absolute, but there should be a point where not even the field can handle it, and with enought particle present, as on a begining, a black hole could theoreticaly grow into a spiral ring expanding, maybe even more than one, that is devouring space itself, and lefting this space that we do know on the interior...
  The faster expansion, seems to be the same way they use to calculate PI and diameter of stars, it seems to also explain a faster expansion, that is infact a bigger diameter, and not altering the cosntants or the speed of the expansion itself, only the diameter of it's edge...

I do not accept on this scenario, universe to be rare and unique, it is simple a expanding momentum of a nova, surounded by a super intercaled void, till we "pyshicaly" reach another universe or star and so on and on...
  I agree with the tinny size and bang, but I do believe that what caused universe to be born from that point of super density, was infact the "space expansion itself" it crossed over it at C, perhaps is still occuring, and crashed all those super massive objects, that we now see as galaxies...
  Much speculation, but my big bang, starts with lots of ordinaries stars, that where ripped apart by an sudent expansion on the blackground, latter on absorving the "now" C partterns resulting on the mechanics we do experience today...

  Is speculation, but for me "C" lies beyond the universe, it's a propriety of space itself, or it is a product of a expansive structure at the edges of "space" that is ripping energy and forming this void with all its patterns...
  Time as a whole entity would also be resultant of this spiral structure...
  As it it more a conversion than a destruction of something, just like a black hole it should be converting primordial energy into this ever growing void, as a ordinary black hole would be doing with a galaxy...
  So C and all its properties would be of space and on it, matter is something that was already there, or pieces that somehow survived the expansion without be consumed...

 In resume this is only necessary when I do consider space as eternal, it needs a structure, again, if universe is allthat is, there is nothing to worry about, for C would be again, the universal expansion over nothing, and quantum mechanics was always based on probabilities since day one...

  Somehow I do not believe that, but is too soon for take it as a conclusion, for the moment I share the same space at C that everybody does...
  The only aspect that does not match with this are the constants, universe "seems" to be to chaotic to control such perfect patterns...
  I'm working but where higgs enter on this:  Higgs would be the primordial energy tring to come back to its resting form, always trying to conservate energy, constantly trying to rest, not sure becouse this act itself could be gravity, the original entity trying to rest on the "after" expansion.
 As ona large black hole that is eery time less destructive as it grows, perhaps even if expanded enought, alowing particles to reapear....


 For me on a sort seculation, dark energy and dark matter origins, as space expands, the interior is becoming back to its original state, that should be the general source of gravity and expontaneous formation of particles...
  I'm no scientst, so I still have a long way to go on those thoughts...
 I'm trying to understand why a inactive photon was never considered to be a gravitron, a photon that is part of this "gin -clear", as on if photons was serving as for light and gravity...

[GoC]

        Alex you have a good mind and curiosity. They are the traits of a good scientist.

Why do you personally believe the universe is expanding and not steady state?

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

Thanks Goc, but as always for my official opinion, i'd stick with your and relativity, for we were able to measure and observe...
 
  The reasons why I do believe space is still expanding, is the thing that is expanding, cycling...
  See, we do consider for a galaxy a colection of solar system, gas and any osrt of matter that is sppining around a center(BH)...
  But I wonder that this perception is similar for the miss interpretation of Einstein and others, as the milky way as being the entirely universe. Reason why he claimed space to be infinite...
 I also do consider what is a galaxy not by the field it is existing within(space), for me any galaxy is simple the matter and mass, a structure that exists between space...
 So it goes for universe, univer would also be all the matter/mass we can observe, but space is not restricted to universe on this scenario, space(void) would be already there when universe was born, as the same principle that a galaxy is born over the already existing same space...
   So I believe that the thing expanding in our "universe" is space, not trully an literaly expansion, but more a constant proportional "adaptation" of an ever growing void, that should have a structure at the edges, not necessarily at the edge of universe, can be much beyond universe itself, more likely impossible to be visualised...
   I consider this (space as a void) the secund stage, form, of the primordial entity. Now I do not sure how or why a singularity would be born from a static frozen entity of energy, but interaction with another dimension...

 Now I do believe that wherever happened to trigger the rupture once it was done, it started to behave much as a black hole does, and different from our insignificant black holes feeding on left overs...
 This original one, would be surounded by energy, and the grown would be almost abusurd to consider.
 Now I'm not sure what an ordinary black hole would become if it was surrounded by energy instead of void, But I do wonder, that space is flat now, but wasn't always, one could say that I'm considering that we do exist inside a universal hole, that our universe is an ordinary momentum along with perhaps many others, but without the necessity of verses or extra dimensions.
 Basicaly one would have our universe intercalled by super void, and eventually another portion that we could call "andromeda" and next another universe that we would call perhaps "sombrero" and so on and on...

 I thing that this singularity would not be able to grown spherical for it was feeding on a now flat universe, for so it the structure itself would exchange the spherical grown for a more eliptical one...
  I wonder that our magnetic fields and spinning particles are simple assimilating this patterns and appling it to mechanics, from particles upt to black holes, all but copies...

 Now being practical:
We do observe an aleatory galaxy and we do observe and assume that it is moving away from us.
 I believe that is not that simple, some would be in fact accelerating away or towards some other one, but as for the expansion, I believe that is more as "relocation"...
  Like the singularity space growing up on diameter as it continues to feed on the primordial entity, the diameter keeps growing, and what would seems to us a "faster" expansion, would perhaps be only a exponential growth in diameter...
 As the space as a void grows in diameter the interior is also relocated, contantly relocated, and along with space, anything that is existing within it, in our observations, everything that is(matter)...
 This "speculation" makes me question not the age of the universe anymore, as I used to do. Universe since the begin should have being submited to "time" as we do know now, otherwise light and our measurements would not make sense, the clock experiment that lead us to those 13-14 billion years (that we already observed) wouldnt make sense, for me always sounded logical that if uiverse was all that is, and that space "belongs" to universe, that time and light should have being independant one of the other since day one, I mean that the clock assumption does not make sense to me if universe is all there is, time could not have being born ready as it is, nor light, but than again...
 Energy, C, and time over many different experiments and technology have prove to be intricate and constant, we could calculate the decay of atoms, the age of rocks, and much more, and I simple cannot accept that a bunch of aleatory unpredictable, inscontant and "not enternal" black holes could be on control of that perfection... And again they also do, those objects also can interact with energy, C and time, but as one goes away from those objects in any dirrection constants come back perfectly, so why is that?

 I can only think about a ever lasting expanding ring like structure that is feeding on the energy of a pre-space/void, and the voild is the result, space as a result, knetic energy... It would not have curves, nor dirrections, nor density, but it does have patterns, it twists, it expands, is is procuded aparently from nothing...
  I tend to think that two opposit constants are acting here on the total scale, one is C, C being result of the spiral sppin of this ring like structure that is ever growing at the edges of infitity(space).
 And the oposit force would be like the "mother" of this structure, it came from it, so is to expect that it's gorwing is submited to some sort of control, what determinates it's gorwth, delimitates C...
  I once read something about another "mistake" of Einstein where he sugested a so chaotic oposit force to gravity that the explanation itself only made things more weird...
  I do believe that C is always and constantly countered for its own source, controled by gravity...
 I do not know how to say but Gravity should have being born at the same time that C started to happen, gravity being the constant attempt of the "original still existing entity" to come back to its resting/original state, and would be proportional anywhere, but also local, gravity than would not be constant...
 I guess that as near one gets to the edges, bigger things can be, because gravity should be weaker there than at more at near a virtual center...
  Imagine the situation of a quasar, here it's own grownth when consuming energy, forces it to become eliptical in order to not surpass C, I picture this ever growing singularity as being sujected to the same now "constant" situation, very reason of why the eliptical form...

  So in resume, when someone observe a galaxy moving away from another, I assume it may well be moving away indeed, but also being constantly relocated as the diameter of space (void) grows...
  One thing I'm sure but only within this speculation, so it's meaningless without observation, I do prefer that way...  If space has similar structure, that is growing by feeding on energy, lefting this knetic void, that allowed universe to exist, by observing any field on any scale, I do presume that no matter how big "universe" is, it has matter, and as any other thing out there, universe got to be at the center of space...
  Now universe can be very large, but I'm not sure that it is still growing beyond this virtual plate, there got to be an end back in time, I just consider that if humanity ever come to glimpse on that, we would find that after creation (big bang) there would be depending on the dirrection we are observing, or more and more intercalled super voids of empty space, or once again the same oservtions on backwars, if we by coincidence be observing at the center... As the last thing we may see is still forming galaxies, a barrier of light , maybe a imensurable black hole where galaxies are orbiting, like great attractor, and than it will make sense, that universe is no different than a galaxy, hyper galaxy...

 I'm used to write down a lot, so I apologize for that, but seems the only viable way to explain why I do consider "Expansion" as being "Relocation"...
 I do not believe Universe can expand, for the same principle a rock can't expand, universe for me is but the visible matter, space belongs to universe as much as our solar system is producing "new" space, it's not... Space was there, if there was a big bang like event is was from space itself becoming a ever growing void, universe is but a event, occurring inside this everlasting space expansion...
  I thought about this for a long time, but still many information to cross, I'm ever imagined that matter and much more planets could stand a super nova expansion, but thanks to internet, I was able to learn that a few bodies can indeed withstand supernovas and still continue to orbit their mains star, I never considered it to be possible...
 If you ask me, I'm sticking with relativity, it does make sense...

 If I was to guess, "universe" was an earlier hyper massive star, that could withstand it's "imensurable size" due it's existence nearby the post-C expansion of space, weaker gravity, it was a giagantic star, as space kept growing on diameter, exponentially, eventually gravity increased and the universal star when nova, eons latter within the new existence of gravity, the leftovers started to gathered togueter and form galaxies, solar sistems, and so on and on...
 I do wonder that is that that we are observing, anything but a momentum of a universal star that once upon a time went nova due an ever growing void...

 A bigger the eye gets, closer to the orginal entity this dimmension returns, stating to loose movement, allowing the re-formation of particles, matter would than be the result of a marriage between this two oposits, but not for ever, eventually dark matter, that should be not observed by its effects, dark matter should be the effects, an aproximation of a "crushing" resting state as the virtual more centered regions of this void start to rest...
I know that mass should not be from space, I do accept this, but I'm also always questioning, should not from space in witch state, the resting energy, or the knetic void?
  For my oficial opinion: Expanding universe
  For my subjection: Realocating on space time
 As if space as it grows in diameter, it is constantly readapting the sizes to math the constants, in function of C, part of this would be set things apart, from the particles to galaxies...

 To visualise the whole idea, I'm assuming that black holes are sperical "only" becuse the "already void. That the true form of any singularity is infact a "spiral ring", the true form of a black hole being quasar, and this ever growing rupture being precisily that, a expanding quasar like event...
 A quasar event that is on this scenario, at the edges, surrowunded by frozen  energy/mass, and empty at the center, different from our "inversed" singularities... A ever growing quasar like eliptical structure, that is massive at the ring itself and empty at the center. As like the ring, the structure itself as "Whole" being the center of it, the center is the edge. I'm considering a different gravity at the borderds that makes the ever growing structure to not requere mass at center. A different more "real" form of singularity...
  Like a "constant quasar" that is constantly devouring energy/mass from the exterior, from outside in, one where the void lies on the inside...
  I wondering if we where to serve a quasar with pure energy instead of a void, it would reveal to become a expansive horizon that would reveal a void at the center(new space)... From a certain point, this ever feeding quasar event, would make its center the whole expansive ring, unable to fall back towards the center, and when big enough, the very object that once formed it, would eventually dissipate its mass into heat and radiation... Than all matter and energy that make us and stars, that make universe itself, would be born from the left overs of this virtual center, that now exists no more. It may even have lasted only a few moments, before dissipated, lefting only the ever expanding ring, that would theoretical still be consuming energy, and growing in diameter since there should be a limit "C" that does not allows it to grow on size, only in diameter...

 If one ask me why mater?
  I carring the tought that mater is the "death of space/void". Particles(energy/quanta) are the prelute of an ever continuos cycle of resting, as much more the void keeps growing in diameter, more and more particles are to apear, they only reason why they do not collapse is the ever sppining C and expanding C, those constants should grant to the void a perpetual existence, but only up to a certain point, for C is still constant. as big the void gets, greater the delay(time). One is to expand forver at C, but time not, time is backwards. Time will remain as constant as C, but C structure does not need to grow in size, or can't, but it can virtually grow forever in diameter, as for the opossit time can't, time is not at C. What I wonder is that as bigger the diameter of the ever growing void, bigger the delay towards the center(comunication), this could be the source of dark matter, dark matter being "mass", and will keep growing on quantity, increasing gravity and time setting the scales, making everything every time smaler but in more quantity. Self producing particles borning everywhere on and from the void on past as it keeps expanding... So I use to consider particles as proof of a already dying space...
  If you ask me why the existence of quanta? It's an aproximation of the original state, but thanks to C and relocation it is fractured in pieces... I look to the existence of a planet and I think what space would be like in the very distant future: Dense, massive, as bigger that density grows, more static at the center, returning to its original state, till eventually it may well re-start the whole process over and over again. But there's a difference, what of the original expanding ring? Well I presume it would remain there, and that universes like now, would still be happening at the right place...
 Something like a expansion, followed by another from inside out, and so on and on

 Mass starts to occurs when the C pattern is disrupted/delayed in time, for me energy is the source of mass, but mass is at the same time, the original state of energy, of space, before the void...

[guest39538]

Much appreciated, I do like it, The ''blackness'' we observe between distance galaxies is actually daylight, but there is nothing large enough or reflecting enough radians of light to be observed by our conventional present technology. "

  About C patter, it only cross my mind when I decide to consider space as an infinite field, where the "momentum universe" (big bang/nova) is still "expanding"... My concept of expansion if surelly present when thinking about blackholes as centrifugal force, spin as one would say... But I do consider that all this field we call universe is a momentum of a nova expansion...
  If space and time are existing in coorelation, I do accept that the reagion of any nova when the star explodes is temporarily submited to a expansion, and on that few secunds, the interior experience a local existence of time, different from the one on the exterior... AQs I do wonder we are expericing our from universe...
  I see space as a void, altough when I do accept universe as a limited C existence that is still expanding over nothing, than I do not need that pattern, it must be somehow related with sppining particles and blackholes on control...

 But if I do accept universe as being a still expanding super nova, an ordinary momentum over a "already existing" field of "energy", I tend to seek for a more deeper resolution...
  If universe is nothing but a still expanding momentum of an ordinary nova, over a space that was already there, light does not make sense...
  For so, I'm considering both factors, sppin and expansion, as being of different origins...  C would be the expansion itself, it belongs to a still borning universe, altough for me the spin, the whole "engine" of quantum mechanics, was already there much earlier than universe, I relate with empty space all the patterns of quantum mechanics... In a sort version i'm wondering that quantum mechanics dictates and operate particles and energy, on and from the void, and a good topic for that is both gravitron and higgs boson...

 See I do believe that C is for expansion(local/universe), as sppining "C" is for (space/energy), one existing and coodepending on each other, but nonentless one being a constant, and other being a momentum...
   If one is to reverse our so called big bang, I do believe that void would be all there was, frozen energy, a higgs field different from our own on the present, a frozen entity of energy as a whole existence, with no scales and without time... one could consider that as a frozen particle, that is vast as infinity...

 Somethign was happen or started to happen on the center, maybe from the interaction between two dimentions.  Yes this is merely speculation, but in terms of beyond the existence of the universe, basically one had a perfect, predictable entity, if there was a pattern presented it should have being  opossit charge and balance...
 I do make an Idea of what happened, there's no way to see or to know for us.
 The point is: When I consider space as an whole entity eternal and infite, two possibilities come to mind.
1- "space" has a structure with a virtual center that is constanty cicling the entity, twisting and stretching it, spliting it into fractions (quanta), determining all the constants...
 i do picture something, like a rupture, or an eye of a hurricane, with a very eliptical shape, but that more than sppin is also sort of rolling space in as if it was a hope, stretching it, raging it into smal pieces, on the quantum level... Imagine something like the momentum when a black hole is feeding on a gass cloud, now imagine that:
  A sort of singularity that grew so wide and so large, that is started to work as an ring that started to propagate itself as it feeds on the fabric itself...
  A easy way is to watch a spherical rock hitting a lakes surface, the wave is propagating trough the fabric, well on this scenario, the wave is the ring, ans is propagting itself troght the lake... Messing with it from inside out, stetching and sppining all water in there atributing to it a ciclic expansion and twisting proprieties...

 Imagien that we (universe) is alreadyexisting and born from inside out this already expanding ring.
 Such ring would be feeding from primordial energy, expanding itself, lefting behind only its patterns constantly submiting the interior to it, and also forming this void, tht for me on this scenario is nothing less than knetic energy from this very expansion...
  This red shift on thsi scenario seems trully to be as you mentioned, perhaps by very different reasons, but nentless I agree that the "gin-clear" out there is also red shift, more precisely what happen with photons beyond C, the colour beyond the red shift, that is also happening even where there is nothing to see... There is nothing to see for the distance is to great and C is constant...

 The secund cnfiguration would make universe become a simple faction of a eliptical hyper horizontal disk, of a super massive singularity, white hole or primordial black hole made of light, I'm not fan of this theory for it seems not to provide a correct expansion...
   I do believe that black holes are absolute, but there should be a point where not even the field can handle it, and with enought particle present, as on a begining, a black hole could theoreticaly grow into a spiral ring expanding, maybe even more than one, that is devouring space itself, and lefting this space that we do know on the interior...
  The faster expansion, seems to be the same way they use to calculate PI and diameter of stars, it seems to also explain a faster expansion, that is infact a bigger diameter, and not altering the cosntants or the speed of the expansion itself, only the diameter of it's edge...

I do not accept on this scenario, universe to be rare and unique, it is simple a expanding momentum of a nova, surounded by a super intercaled void, till we "pyshicaly" reach another universe or star and so on and on...
  I agree with the tinny size and bang, but I do believe that what caused universe to be born from that point of super density, was infact the "space expansion itself" it crossed over it at C, perhaps is still occuring, and crashed all those super massive objects, that we now see as galaxies...
  Much speculation, but my big bang, starts with lots of ordinaries stars, that where ripped apart by an sudent expansion on the blackground, latter on absorving the "now" C partterns resulting on the mechanics we do experience today...

  Is speculation, but for me "C" lies beyond the universe, it's a propriety of space itself, or it is a product of a expansive structure at the edges of "space" that is ripping energy and forming this void with all its patterns...
  Time as a whole entity would also be resultant of this spiral structure...
  As it it more a conversion than a destruction of something, just like a black hole it should be converting primordial energy into this ever growing void, as a ordinary black hole would be doing with a galaxy...
  So C and all its properties would be of space and on it, matter is something that was already there, or pieces that somehow survived the expansion without be consumed...

 In resume this is only necessary when I do consider space as eternal, it needs a structure, again, if universe is allthat is, there is nothing to worry about, for C would be again, the universal expansion over nothing, and quantum mechanics was always based on probabilities since day one...

  Somehow I do not believe that, but is too soon for take it as a conclusion, for the moment I share the same space at C that everybody does...
  The only aspect that does not match with this are the constants, universe "seems" to be to chaotic to control such perfect patterns...
  I'm working but where higgs enter on this:  Higgs would be the primordial energy tring to come back to its resting form, always trying to conservate energy, constantly trying to rest, not sure becouse this act itself could be gravity, the original entity trying to rest on the "after" expansion.
 As ona large black hole that is eery time less destructive as it grows, perhaps even if expanded enought, alowing particles to reapear....


 For me on a sort seculation, dark energy and dark matter origins, as space expands, the interior is becoming back to its original state, that should be the general source of gravity and expontaneous formation of particles...
  I'm no scientst, so I still have a long way to go on those thoughts...
 I'm trying to understand why a inactive photon was never considered to be a gravitron, a photon that is part of this "gin -clear", as on if photons was serving as for light and gravity...

wow Alex your posts are extensive and you have a  good ability to think.

Let me see if you can understand this .



We all have heard of photons right, we imagine in thought these little tiny mass less particles travelling from the sun to the earth.
photons that are information packets.


Now I want you if you can, to imagine that there is no photons but only a photon. Imagine that and matter, the smallest of particles , gives of a spherical light field.

I want you to imagine that the entire spherical field is a single photon . I want you to imagine zooming out so the spherical field you observe relatively contracts to a single point , so all you see is a dot like a star.

You are an outer observer looking in, you can see the now dot but the dot can not see you because you are beyond the limit of lights radius.

Imagine these dots you now visualise to be single photons, inside of each and every photon is a visual universe that is connected via the light internally.

Let me know if you understood please.

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

Yes, I do see that, but also saving the consideration that those "seeds" were before...
 It were there happy with their unique force, a soup of energy as a whole entity, perhaps a frozen one...
 One where quanta was not, a single field, with a perfect pattern. I like to think of photons as it, but it could also be a unique bosson, as a dimenssion...
   Eventually some other dimmension interacted with it, or by any reasons it started to develop "cancer".
 A twisted singularity that started at a virtual center, maybe more than one, devouring one the other, but I do believe to have being only one, it started to grow in diameter exponentially from the minute it where born.
  Accelerating towards everything there was(energy) as a wave, feeding and growing on diameter on it...
  Perhaps resambles a big bang, but for me big bang was ordinary nova, that produced a "bigger" galaxy that we call universe. On a reverse scale universe is bigger in diameter for the period on the expansion it was born, as for galaxies, solar systems, atoms are smaler for the same reason...
  I do consider the big bang as a nova for the universe borned from it, but nonentless particles borning from the void as the ever lasting expansion continues, with those particles "re-apearing" universel star, was able to form, but submited to a weaker gravity than now, for the void was smaler, as it kept expanding gravity has increased on our region(different from now) and from that point own all that happens was what we already know, nova and black hole(once and somewhere) but I do wonder that "space as a void" was  already growing in diameter and realocating the interior.
 The very act of realocation and growing, what allowed matter (energy) to reapear, thus universe..

  One have a whole entety of energy(frozen/spherical)
 Now, One have a singularity that feed on it, from inside out, lelting behind a inner void of knetic energy "space/C" as it consumes and grows in diameter... C remain constant and time stretches towards both dirrection, faster at the edges and slower at the center, allowing the existence of different scales other than particles, alowing matter to exist...

 Matter and void, would be a marriage, inconstant for they are not from the same thing, energy is a constant state (primordial), and void/space but a momentum (result)
 I wonder that as the diameter keeps growing, the interior will be constantly relocating the (void) and as the diameter grows the center (where universe should lies now) it's on itself a consequence of a slow "return" to the original resting state, and atempt to conserve... Though they are still married, so one would have fractions of the entity, like copies(atempts)
   
 So I assume universe has indeed born from a explosion(that also expanded), but only expanded matter, as any other super nova out there, the miss understanding I believe to be that C was already happening on the blackground, and that univer iself, only born because space adquired a big enought radius that allowed particles to "re-apear", matter is than result of a marriage.....

I'm short on time, latter I'll correct it, but basically universe as a "probability" for it's own existence due it "now place"/ "relocation" on the ever growing void.. altoguh different from our already "inversed" singularityes surrowunded by already void. This ring/singularity can and should be growing much as a quasar, but one that theoreticaly does not requeres a center of mass, one that the center is the whole "weight" of the ring itself, with void at the center.. I believe that this condition is repeating itself from inside out dense objects as inner cores, they seem to explode nova depending on their size by the same factor "relocation"... An atempt to become one again, what does not let it happen is becouse matter is a marriage that is now forever submited to C...

  I do understand what you asked to visualize, I'm just implementing over it... Cause photons are already sppining energy. I tend to think that what more resambles the primordial state is frozen mass. Bosons seems more logic then sppining particles, like individual fractions of a whole quanta, the rest of the particles (stages), sons of this marriage, would any other particles, inevitable they would assimitate its father caracteristics(Twisting) around their mothers personality(static)... Not precisily on those terms, but I take for "mother" the primordial existence of the dimmension as whole energy that remains opossit to the father on the edges of the ever growing void, acting as a delimitation for the event(time) controling C, C controling higgs, the simple existence of the bosson, an alternative reason for sppining particles, around a virtual center...
  I imagine that primordial existence, thinking about a inner core from outside in as being similar to the primordial space, it only does not expand again, cause the void is already there, even so is known that the do expand to...
 Big bang describles a new bron even, I do not focus ont hat, I consider a inverse scenario for space itself, it was already infinite as energy, than the void started to clean up, consuming it as it expands, not in size, bt in diameter, we would be on the middle, happens only that this middle this, universal plate, or, this horizont where universe exists along with others, is very very large...
 So what's out there? Beyond the universe event? Void and eventually with "time" and "relocation" self expontaneous particles, back up to another "bigbangs"...

 As for gravity, seems to be related with higgs bosson, it is the source, but it is transmited trough this "photonic space/void"  in a deeper speculation photon is but a carrier, that forms and refrms on the void itself... This gin-clear that The Box mention, this blackground can indeed be filed with inactivated photons/gravitrons...
 This last speculation is related with the one above for even higgs being the source as a point of reference for sppining particles, there would require something else to carry the information/waves, and do it at C I can only thing of photons themselves being the carrier of all sort of information, from light up to gravity... But not even close to take it as a conclusion... I do not expect to be correct, but the only way to thing differnt is to strapolate over the details and reach a partial conclusion, than start to check it step by step, possible, not possible and why, if so, how?

 I'm sugestingthat the very re-apereance of particles/enever. (now sppining at C), is on itself, proof of an already dying space, as also condition for an universe itself to exist...

[GoC]

Alex

Now being practical:
We do observe an aleatory galaxy and we do observe and assume that it is moving away from us

Why do you personally believe the universe is expanding and not steady state?

Most of us believe because of others which we assign greater knowledge say it is so. We can follow some of the associations and convince ourselves of its proof. The changes in the BB since its inception has been more fantastic with each derivative. The Universe is like being on the surface of a balloon for the current interpretation. The space we once occupied is no longer space as we currently understand. We can no longer get to that space. We need to create a worm hole to traverse the center of the balloon to another surface of the balloon. The latest balloon interpretation was because of the fully formed galaxies 13 billion light years away. This violates Relativity to the point of being ridiculous. Space is dilated in the presence of macro mass. For the most part space between galaxies is somewhat flat not curved in one direction as a whole as the balloon example suggests.

There is SR and GR red shifts. Astronomers only use SR red shift for acceleration away from our position. Currently galactic accumulative dilation (we view as lensing) is not figured into the departing speed. So we measure the GR and SR combined as just SR. One astronomer pointed this out when he claimed two galaxies of different sizes were in the same group with different red shifts. He was ignored because it did not fit the current model.

Science cannot afford to throw away results that do not fit the current model. They are not true scientists.

There are only size dimensions and no proof of other dimensions. Invoking non observable issues beyond size dimensions is fantasy not reality. Mathematicians are not overly concerned with mechanical reality in my experience. We need more engineers looking at relativity the math follows the observations


thebox

While every part of the universe exists in real time as you correctly point out, no observation is in real time. All observations are from the past positions. Even your screen display. Our relative ability to perceive a difference is so insignificant as to be indistinguishable from real time locally.

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

I'm referring to the entity that space was on the pre-void, the primordial energy, as being a whole dimension, for there would not be time, and without time no scales, no sizes or anything but energy as a whole...
 I share the same opinion of yours, no magical dimensions, only geometrical proportions when on therms of universe...
 As far as I'm concerned, black holes are not portals to anywhere but a form to become radiation...
  You mentioned wormhole, I'm not quite convinced that they "can" be "real" outside the numbers...

 I do not understand why most of people believe universe to be special and all there is.
 Can be subjection, but no mater where I look, seems no different than a super nova, adrifiting on an already expanding space/void, and the void could not care any less about it...
 The only "shape" I could come with was an spherical/elliptical ring, that is sort of rolling at C at the edges...
 It was the only way to split universe from space, was to set us (universe) at the middle of a infinite "flat horizon", on the interior of an ever growing singularity, that not only started before universe, but that allowed universe to come to exist(particles) with "C", in quanta...
  If one is to have a expansion at C on all directions, and outer ring would be a viable form to expand the void as it grows in diameter.
  C would than be the "constant relocation" of space time, source the spinning particles and matter would be simple adrifting on this void, absorbing part of this kinetic energy...
   Dark energy would be the formation of particles, and dark matter the ever growing "mass effect" of these process...  Dark matter being the "delay" on C, for time takes time to, specially if the void keeps growing exponentially in diameter... hardly one would be able to experience "live" specially from inside out an universe, right because it was able to born precisely due a delay, that allowed particles to re-appear...
 I guess that the event would restart when time become as proportional as C, when time takes more "time" to reach the virtual center than C would start to delay to the point space would start to loose C from inside out as it grows in density, returning to it's original state of resting energy, as a whole...
  Not adding extra dimensions, only that the void we experience is the same entity that was there as a whole, the only difference is that it was already infinite when a singularity started to add C and void, energy cannot be destroyed, but surely it can be accelerated by C to the point it looses almost all density and viscosity... I see dark matter as a prelude to the end of space as it was, "on our region" on it...

  A simple version, take Einstein sheet, doble it on quantity so you have two of them, set the planets in the middle of it, now consider that the planets do not bend the sheet, but that they are floating on the middle in between the two sheets, and are the sheets themselves that bend on the precense of the objects...
  Now add a 360% spiral ring at the edge og the sheets, one that has the same "size" of the "void in between the sheets"... That ever growing void, would be (space/universe) growing at C on diameter and consequentily the extension of the void, an ever larger horizon(space/void)...
  Now consider that the ring is rotating (torque) and also spping on it's axes (as a whole) , something as the ring is twisting ans also sppining but one does not follow the other, infact the spirall rolling happening in oposit to the sppin... Now I'm not sure, can be that each sheet is sppining and rolling on opossit directions one to the other, not sure....
   Now it's not the best example but consider that the ring is growing on diameter, and as it grows also the void on the interior also increases, on a constant rate, perhaps PI, and that that growth is setting the void at C as a linear precense, but also that the sppining is also happening at the same C...
  Now imagine that the spiral ring at the edge, that is rotating ans sppining, is feeding on Ice, growing by cosntantly feeding on an infinite ice cube, that has density, and is made of energy...
  Imagine that as the ring feeds on it and increases the diameter of the void, water, hydrogen and oxigen is left at the interior of the void...
  I tough about drawn but I do not have the skills to it... But as the idea sugests, everything is not moving away, this is from our interrest and observation, what I sugesting is that we are constantly being relocated to a different possition "on space" but space is not, the center of the diameter is still the center of it, no matter how large the void grows, space is produced and is instantaneously adjusted...
  I mean instantaneously, cause it started from inside out with the same constant, so wherever is happening at the borders, have imediate effects over the center, independant of the distance, and this would be true to every single section of the radius...
  As this continuous to happen at C, matter is adrifiting on the event suffering measurable relocation, resulting in red-shift...  But than again there are two forces here, one is the possibility that the galaxy is indeed "accelerating in one dirrection, and also the size and compossition of the specific galaxy on the relocation, it can variate...
   GoC: one astronomer pointed this out when he claimed two galaxies of different sizes were in the same group with different red shifts...
  The size would than be the reason for the different red-shifts, perhaps a different relocation due the variations themselves...

 Light is energy, energy is an old player on this, it still can go anywhere it wants, but the car is C...
 Matter took place by the "possibility" to higgs to reform, from that point, quanta was back, not as a whole "ice cube" but instead due the marriage with C pattern, as pieces...
  Gravity also is not getting weaker, should be also time and relocation of the void...
  I believe space will die/restart at the moment when due a specific diameter, time would take to long for "C it", gradually this will allowed space to become hyper massive from inside out...
 Everything will be re-gathered together and will collapse and bang, restarting universe submitted to work under a "new scale", different time and constants than the ones we experience, and during all that, that may have happens many times, or not at all, space was still expanding, is expanding, and will still be expanding forever...

  Unless the "Ice cube" has a limit, and is not infinite, on this case I'm not sure, but tell me:
  Picking up a BH for example, what would happen to the galaxy if one was to suddently dissipate the big atom at the center? What whould happen to the galaxy, it would remain there?
 And with the awnser in mind, pick the inverse, remove C from space but let the galaxy be, would it be or it would colapse back into a massive sphere of energy?

 What I have in mind resambles similar to those:
http://imgur.com/8YpCj29    /    http://imgur.com/QJFu8KR
youtube.com/watch?v=MbQ6TDrGjcM

Operating similar to this:
youtube.com/watch?v=R_w4HYXuo9M

[GoC]

GoC: one astronomer pointed this out when he claimed two galaxies of different sizes were in the same group with different red shifts...
  The size would than be the reason for the different red-shifts, perhaps a different relocation due the variations themselves...

Perhaps we favor the model we were taught. That is my whole point.

Einstein favored the steady state but was persuaded by the red shift because he could not think of any other reason for the red shift. The MMX suggested space was a void only. There model was GR not being accumulative. Now we view lensing. The lensing is dilation of space as observable. The current model is lensing being the threshold boundary between dark mass and dark energy. The voyagers moving out of the solar system suggests GR dilation with their increase in tick rate of their clocks.

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

 I'm sure of that too. He, Einstein, considered Milkyway as being the whole universe. From my point of view milkyway itself is also an entire "universe" as it is...

Einstein favored the steady state but was persuaded by the red shift because he could not think of any other reason for the red shift.

[guest39538]

thebox

While every part of the universe exists in real time as you correctly point out, no observation is in real time. All observations are from the past positions. Even your screen display. Our relative ability to perceive a difference is so insignificant as to be indistinguishable from real time locally.

According to present information

Only in naivety would a person believe the subjective of your statement.  There is truth's that you fail to consider with no stone un-turned.

If I asked you to prove and show me an observation of these Photons you explain exists from past position, could you comply with that?  I suggest the subjective of Photon simply exists only in thought experiments.

I do not observe little tiny dots from my screen to my eye and neither do you sir unless you have sight problems.

I can clearly see and observe by measurement that colour is in its exact geometrical position of the object I am viewing. Do you deny I can measure the space between my eyes and object?

Quite clear to me is the avoidance of the truths.

You consider that time slows down or speeds up, I ask you this......


If you left me to travel a journey and your clock ran at half the rate of my clock, then you made a return trip to my location,do you think we both do not meet back up in  the present?

Do you not think because we meet back up in the present both must believe that the same amount of time has passed for us both, you do  not come back in the past do you now?

added- If time had ran slower for you, when you returned I would be ahead of you in time, in the future .

[Alex Dullius Siqueira]

 The word "photon" goes for something that is actually tangible, and it's easier to refert to it as a particle, we do accept that for the comodity oinly...

  The reality, seems, to be, one has primordial energy(light/spectrum), one has the ever growing void, and one have time that is how fast the event occurs, so one has C...

  The "photon" should be but a "shape" "temporary" "abstract and virtual without the presence of light"
  its form should be a more flat spiral one, somehow is able to ignore anything that is not C(space)
   Seems that both are correct, space without the precense of any light or spectrum, a perfect void is homogeneusly, one add energy this very energy will inevitable travel at C, "in between" the void, along with it, sort of suffering constant relocation at C from A to B... I'm sugesting that the quanta of anything is static, the sppin of particles has the same source of the "traveling" light at C, both are not...
   There is no particle sppin, should not, there is static energy being submited to sppin(C), also there is no light traveling, there is again quanta being submited to C, due a special configuration, it causes no friction, so it is just "adrifting at "along" with C" from A to B... At lest in terms of galaxies one can say that, there the influence of stars is determinant to the formation of photons "shape/containers" as we observe...
   Most likely redshift is when a photon is submited to a much greater distance than C. Everything is submited to C, including the "photons/energy" adrifiting with C from galaxy A to galaxy B, but there is a problem that is what I sugest and refer as "relocation", where the ever growing void is cummulating more nad more "space" as the diameter/radius of the dimmenison/horizon keeps growing (PI)...
   SO one has light adrifiting from A to B, adrifting not "At" C but "along" with C, in between (photonic momentum)... But one has also this constant "proportional relocation" of the void, and as consequence a "variable" relocation of masses (galaxies), variable for it should depend on many factors, the shape, possition, size and compossition of the whole galaxy, all those factors influencing a result of what we percieve as different red shifts from A to C as the one on A to B... Sort of less and more seeped/time as they cause friction(delay on C) due size and composition...

  I visualize static quanta of energy adrifiting along with C from A to B, it's carrier is C itself adding to the energy a spiral configuration and momentum, the marriage between those factos, results in light, moving energy...
  A massive object for me is the inverse interpretation of itself, it is not something, it is in itself a "hole" on the medium, its precense is providing "impermeable edges/surfaces" from space and the pattern C, literally the existence of a planet is disrupting Higgs "field" on large scale, from a perfect flat cyclic pattern to a spiral "field" just like a magnetic field, altough I'm not sugesting a visible effect, only another configuration over the same "gin-clear" space on the surfaces of anything....

  One could say that Incoming linear C is constantly collinging with the same thing but on a spiral pattern around any "impermeable" surface/matter...

  As bigger one gets, "larger" the radius the diameter also increases, with more size, more "area" to recieve the incoming effect...
  One has a planet that is not massive at center as some sugest, and than one got the inverse of that, a black hole that is the same very mechanics but from outside in. Take a spherical planet and turn int from inside out, keep the mass on the center and the energy on the surrowndings, there's black hole...
  To say that I do ignore a lot of complicated proceses that form the neutron star and the necessary size, but I'm sugesting that on any existence where anything can "exist" that moves to the right, is a "must" that something on the inverse is able t move to the left, if one thing is mathematicaly possible, the opposit must also be, so must be with dark matter, from outside in the center...
  Teh mass of the earth happens on earth itself and on the atmospher enot on space, thats a scenario, I sugesting that the "occuring mass" of a black hole is no longer happening at the center, there's a compacted atom, there's no space within anything there to produce mass on the interior, so by logic, the mass of a black hole, must be occuring outside in that atom...
 In fact, take any atom as an example, all but static energy submited to an ever growing void that is at C, the compination makes impossible to the quanta to be split into smaller quantities, as it is realocated away along with C, quanta is forced to come back towards higgs, and does that by releasing energy, that goes to the particles and so on and on...
  Why anyone ever assumed the ass on the caesium atom to be "on the energy", on the atom itself, I do wonder a while that any given mass of anything, is located and happening on space as it delay on C, there is time. I look to a black hole, and by ignoring the complex formation, I do see only a big attom, with it's mass exposed to see, spreaded trough out the galaxy, holding everything there toguether...

 What I mean is, photons are real, they are created from the void as a momentum, assuming a irregular shape that resambles the one of a particle, but they desapear as soon the energy is or absorved or deflected by something...

 Imagine a pool full of water, and imagine that a marble is the quanta of energy that is atempting to travel from oneside of the pool to the other at C, the marble would not be able to do it, to move on its own, instead the water itself would envolve such marble using C, and envolved on this momentary shape "photon", the rock would adrift from A to B on this ever growing void...

 What I mean is, space is not a single photon, it's photonic, but it holds the "potential" to photon itself when light is there, and it will always photon itself at C...

The problem wityh time, seems not the different speed, our time here is not the same "now" on that at the edge, both are linked, like an spiral, the problem is, time is in function of C and C is not infinite...
  For this very reason, the true problem with time, is that:
 "Time takes time to C"