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  4. Why is water considered critical for life?
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Why is water considered critical for life?

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Offline Wellwisher (OP)

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Why is water considered critical for life?
« on: 06/05/2025 14:37:20 »
Water is critical to life as we know it; on earth. If we remove the water from yeast cells, and leave all the organics, nothing will work. If add any other solvent, little if anything works properly, and it is now definitely not alive. However, if we add the water back, after dehydration, all things work and the integrated state called life reappears.

This observation suggests that the water environment within life, naturally selected these specific organics chemicals, similar to how say an Arctic, Desert or even a Rain Forest environment selects specific flora and fauna, which work best in that environment. They all work best in water.

A polar bear would make no sense in the desert, but it thrives in the Arctic. In the case of water, all the chemicals of life, water selected, work perfectly, in that aqueous ecosystem, to the point they also work together in 4-D, to define life; multi-cellular ecosystem.

Conceptually, if life was to form in other solvents, the chemical environmental selection process would be different, which is why you cannot use others solvents for water based life. Most other suggested solvents, for life on other planets, like alcohol and ammonia, are good degreasers. They would turn all the protein inside out; bury the hydrophilic and expose the hydrophobic moieties. Water based protein would all be rejected, since they are not fit for that new organic environment. Even the DNA is tuned to water. Other solvents would need a totally different generic material, that would be naturally selected; perfect fit in each solvent.

This natural chemical selection model, in water, makes the DNA, one of water's main helpers. The DNA is like the hard drive of the cell. Like a computer hard drive, the DNA has all the needed data needed to do all types of things. But like a hard drive, the DNA does not do much, without a processor. The processor is the active protein grid, which itself is submerged in water; selected within that water world.

During the end of cell cycles, the DNA is taken off line and packed into chromosomes. The hard drive is packaged away like a gift. The protein grid continues to work, to separate materials needed for two daughter cells, with each daughter cell given her own DNA hard drive. Each then need to unpacked the hard drive and fire it up. This is made easier, since each daughter also receives her own legacy protein gird; CPU, from the mother.

The image of the first replicators; basis for evolutionary theory, gives one the impression of the genetic material being both the hard drive and the processor; sees all, knows all, does all. But life evolved with the DNA having more and more precise assistance, from enzyme complexes recycled from the protein grids of mother cells; CPU.

This brings us back to water. It water selected both the hard drive and all the materials of the protein grid needed for the CPU, and if we take way the water, nothing works; CPU and Hard drive, are no longer alive, then it follows that the organics, by itself is not alive.

But if we add the water back, all these selected materials work and the integrated state called life appears. The question becomes, how does water integrate this selected organic environment, to make it come alive, so the team is more than the sum of its parts?

« Last Edit: 06/05/2025 18:50:36 by chris »
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #1 on: 06/05/2025 21:06:56 »
Simply because life is aqueous chemistry.
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Offline Wellwisher (OP)

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #2 on: 07/05/2025 14:14:00 »
Quote from: paul cotter on 06/05/2025 21:06:56
Simply because life is aqueous chemistry.


This is true. I would like to add some unique perspective to this.

In terms of life and chemical selection by water, all the way to life and beyond, water remains the same. Water is like an eternal bookend, when it comes to life. This implies that the same chemical properties and propensities within water have been in effect, even before abiogenesis and will be effect, way into the future. With water the main component of life, that does not change, the water gives evolution a water vector.

If the solvent used to evolve life, changed along with life, then a single vector is not clear cut. But the eternal nature of water and  the changes within life suggest the same basic patterns of water are always in effect.

Other solvents, suggested for life on other planets, are not, as eternal. Alcohols; for example, make good fuel. If life formed in an alcohol, life would eventually learn to react the solvent and even metabolized the solvent to extract energy, all the way to CO2 and H2O. Water is already at minimum chemical energy, and will even become the default, for all life in all organic solvents, when they finally reach their spontaneous combustion stage to make water.

Although water is the eternal stable bookend, solvent, the organics of life, based on carbon, has the possibility of seemingly endless variety. The water and organics are sort of opposite of each other in this sense. The vector of the eternal bookend; water, if it reaches a bottleneck, it can depend on the endless variety of carbon, as a work around, like water under internal pressure, finding a workaround.

The main thing that makes water unique, as a solvent for life, is liquid water is held together with hydrogen bonds, with each water molecule able to form up to four hydrogen bonds; two donors and two acceptors.

The boiling points of three molecules, plus water, with all the same molecular weight, are as   follows: methane CH4 (-161.5 ?C), ammonia NH3 (-33.3 ?C), water H2O (100 ?C), and hydrogen fluoride HF (19.5 ?C).

One will notice that water has the highest boiling point, even though both ammonia and hydrogen fluoride also form hydrogen bonds. What makes water different, in not just hydrogen bonds, but four hydrogen bonds per molecule. Ammonia has three donor hydrogen but one acceptor electron pair, while Hydrogen fluoride has one donor and three acceptors. Both are these are out of proportion to form the extended 3-D structures seen in liquid water. Water can self polymerize similar to carbon; four hydrogen bonds, but at the level of secondary bonding, whereas carbon does this with primary bonding. Water can reflect the primary bonded organic molecules, with it sown version of reversible water hydrogen bonded structures,

Hydrogen bonds are considered a strong form of secondary bonding, compared to the weaker Van der Waals bonds between organic materials. Since the dynamics of life are based on the weaker reversible secondary bonds, the hydrogen bonding matrix makes water the king of secondary bonding. In life, water, as king of secondary bonding always tries to minimize its own potential, with all chemical selection based on satisfying that eternal goal. If you help you get selected.

This selection process is not limited to the primary chemical make up of materials, but also is connected to their secondary bonding characteristics, such as how materials like protein need to be packaged; folded and packed to minimize water potential.

This process of secondary bonding packing selection by water can understood with the water and oil effect. If we mix water and oil and agitate we can form an emulsion. If we stop the agitation and let it settle, it will form two layers, one of pure water and the other of pure oil; order from chaos.

This is all based on maximizing water as a function of surface tension. The term hydrophobic is a misnomer. Water is not afraid of oils. Rather water is more like a snob, that can do better, energy wise, by working only with other water in the four hydrogen bond matrix. The agitation blends the oil and water surfaces and water seeks other water, reversing this.

The surface tension with the oil, is because this secondary bonding surface contact reduces the number of hydrogen bonds water can make, since, although touching the oil, the oil does not form the best hydrogen bonds. This is not the minimal energy state for water; with the tension reflecting this lingering potential. Water will prefer to reduce this lingering potential by minimizing the surface contact area, which leads to two layers. Water, as king, is a snob that way.

The double helix of DNA is held tighter, than the strength of its own hydrogen bonds. The DNA causes some surface tension in water. The double helix a way to bury the "oily aspects; bases and sugars". While phosphate on the surface is favorable to the water. The hydrogen bonding between base pairs is a bonus, made stronger to shield the water from the oily core.

All the organics of life can be treated as variations of oil in that they all create the water and oil effect to various degrees. With water being the dominant secondary bonding force, water will seek to minimize itself. In the case of protein, it packs the most oily parts as the core of the protein, to shield the water, wrapping this in the more water friendly areas of the same protein.

Below is an energy landscape diagram of water packing a protein to maximize the aqueous continuum. The unpacked protein starts at the highest energy and entropy; oily. Water will lower the surface tension; energy, based on priority; worse first, and best last. The final protein is optimize to water, however, this leaves the protein with an entropic potential or a potential to increase entropy; catalytic potential. Water in its attempts to maximize itself makes the protein bioactive. A protein is more than its primary bonding; amino acid sequence. It is also the secondary bonding priority assigned by water, to optimize the water; king of secondary bonding. 

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #3 on: 07/05/2025 14:22:33 »
That opening page looks suspiciously familiar, and not in a good way. Can the mods look at IP addresses or whatever and see if it's someone we know?

Anyway, life as we know it only exists in water, but that's to be expected on a planet 2/3 of which is covered with water.

Looking at the  chemistry, the most likely other plausible solvent for life of some sort is (liquid) ammonia.
But the physics of water includes as useful trick. It expands when it freezes.
That means that lakes freeze from the top down.
So, if the place you are looking at gets cold enough to have "frost" in "winter"  the life will run out of liquid to live in unless that liquid is water.

The idea of silicon based life forms includes some interesting science fiction. But it's more fiction than science.
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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #4 on: 07/05/2025 16:41:52 »
Cart before horse!

Life as we know it is an inevitable consequence of water, thanks to the hydrogen bond which determines the chemistry of life and the physics (see BC's comment on ice) that allows it to happen on wet planets.

Whilst polymeric silicon compounds can mimic  the structure of many simple carbon compounds, I'm not aware of any that allow for the sterically-determined  hydrogen bonds that are essential for replication of DNA.
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Offline Wellwisher (OP)

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #5 on: 08/05/2025 16:20:09 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 07/05/2025 14:22:33
That opening page looks suspiciously familiar, and not in a good way. Can the mods look at IP addresses or whatever and see if it's someone we know?

Anyway, life as we know it only exists in water, but that's to be expected on a planet 2/3 of which is covered with water.

Looking at the  chemistry, the most likely other plausible solvent for life of some sort is (liquid) ammonia.
But the physics of water includes as useful trick. It expands when it freezes.
That means that lakes freeze from the top down.
So, if the place you are looking at gets cold enough to have "frost" in "winter"  the life will run out of liquid to live in unless that liquid is water.

The idea of silicon based life forms includes some interesting science fiction. But it's more fiction than science.

My main premise was life on earth is tuned to water. Water was the environment in which all the components, needed for life, were naturally selected. This is like Amazon Basin and  evolution selecting flora and fauna that work well there.  This its why water based cells, in whole or part, will not work on any other solvent; swamp plants in a desert.

 If the organic side of life was the leverage, we should see more hits and misses and not all or not. Water was there first, and it was never changed; long live the king.

As far as life in other solvents, that assumption should require showing the type of genetic material that would  work in each solvent, since the DNA will not work with any of these solvents, since it is tuned only to water.

Quote from: alancalverd on 07/05/2025 16:41:52
Cart before horse!

Life as we know it is an inevitable consequence of water, thanks to the hydrogen bond which determines the chemistry of life and the physics (see BC's comment on ice) that allows it to happen on wet planets.

Whilst polymeric silicon compounds can mimic  the structure of many simple carbon compounds, I'm not aware of any that allow for the sterically-determined  hydrogen bonds that are essential for replication of DNA.

Hydrogen bonding occurs throughout life. However, as was shown by comparing CH4, NH3, H2O and HF , water; H2O has the highest boiling point even though NH3, H2O and HF all form hydrogen bonds. This is because water has the highest hydrogen bonding density with up to four on each tiny water molecule. This makes H2O and aqueous continuum the king of the hydrogen bonds. This has an impact on all organic hydrogen bonding configurations; lower their surface tension so the king is happy.

For example although DNA is a double helix, RNA can be a single helix. They both form similar numbers of hydrogen bonds but the final; configuration of single or double helix, is decided by water.

DNA and RNA differ by one base and their sugars, with DNA's components more reduced. The DNA is more "oily" compared to RNA, so the water and oil effect,  will lower the surface tension by forcing the hydrogen bonding between the DNA base pairs, to bury the two oil aspects inside the double helix.

Water not only selected chemicals, but shapes them. I like the image of water like ants. Water is small and like an ant, is very strong for its size. While an army of ants, working together can muscle even the largest critters in the cell, due to their team effect; all on same page.

Each base pair in DNA forms 2 or 3 hydrogen bonds, while one tiny H2O can form 4.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2025 16:24:47 by Wellwisher »
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Offline Wellwisher (OP)

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WatRe: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #6 on: 09/05/2025 15:18:14 »
Hydrogen bonds are a unique type of chemical bond. These forms when hydrogen is covalently bonded to the most electronegative atoms, like F, O, N, while also being in the presence of the unshared electrons of another electronegative atom.

These highly electronegative atoms have the strongest affinity for electrons, even beyond their own charge neutrality.  Oxygen, for example, is able to form oxide or O-2. Oxide has two more electrons than it has nuclear protons, with the added stability, due to the magnetic addition within the filled 2P orbitals, by the extra electrons, stronger than the electrostatic repulsion.

When a hydrogen is attached, by a covalent bond, say to oxygen of water, the oxygen will still attempt to stabilize all the electrons, making hydrogen more positive and itself more negative. If this positive hydrogen is near another electronegative atom, like another oxygen on another water, it will attract by dipole interactions. That compounds the positive charge induction, on the second water's hydrogen, etc. In water, with each water able to form, up to four hydrogen bonds, we get something like transient 3-D polymerization of hydrogen bonded water molecules. This is reflected in water's high boiling point for such a small molecule.

This 3-D polymerization of water via four hydrogen bonds per molecule can lead to cooperative hydrogen bonding,  where the hydrogen bonds are up to 250% stronger in the continuum, than a single hydrogen bond in a water dimer.

What is unique about the hydrogen bond, is it also shows partial covalent character, which reflects some sharing of electrons, via the hydrogen bond, similar to the primary covalent bonds, thereby blurring the line between the hydrogen bonds and the covalent bonds of hydrogen, and the two electronegative atoms these bonds are involved with.

The water molecules; H2O, in liquid water,  will change their covalent bonded hydrogen partners, about each millisecond, due to the partial covalent character of the hydrogen bonds.  Although water is always H2O, the specific hydrogen are constantly changing partners like in the pH effect.

The unique swapping effect, where even strong O-H covalent bonds melt like butter, is limited to these top four electronegative atoms, which can create hydrogen bonding hydrogen; F, O, N, Cl. Only they can stabilize all the extra electrons, thereby making the hydrogen more like a mobile and transient addendum that nevertheless binds.  Water's matrix of transient  hydrogen and hydrogen bonding, with four possible hydrogen bonds per H2O, also allows the 2nd law to act, via the large number of possible entropic states of the transient hydrogen.

When we add oil to the water and mix to form an emulsion, this causes more order within the hydrogen bonding, lowering the entropy of the water; adds entropic potential. The 2nd law needs to act, at any and all surfaces, simultaneously, to reduce the entropic potential; lower the surface area to minimum, so it can maximize the hydrogen expression of the 2nd law, near and far.

In cells, we get a very complex water and oil effect, between water and all the various organics, with each unique organic setting a different  local entropic potential, that water then corrects. Evolution has seen the same 2nd law needs of water; hydrogen matrix, always heading to the same place, due to water's hydrogen bonding dominance, as defined by this unique chemical situation and the 2nd law.



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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #7 on: 09/05/2025 20:50:50 »
There was a guy called wellwisher from a couple of years ago (can't remember which site) that would ramble on and on about water and life like it was some mystery.  The guy also had a terrible understanding about QM and hated the idea that statistics was involved in the calculations.  It sounds like the same guy.

So welcome back wellwisher, I figured you died or something since as I recall you're an old fart (like myself).
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Offline Petrochemicals

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #8 on: 09/05/2025 23:55:01 »
I believe it is to do with waters extremley high specific heat capacity and it being extremley abundent, it allows the regulation of the planet. Trouble is that when the water regulates the planet this energy transfer can be extremley problematic.

You can ask what's so special about carbon, which it is.
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Offline Wellwisher (OP)

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #9 on: 10/05/2025 16:01:03 »
Quote from: Origin on 09/05/2025 20:50:50
There was a guy called wellwisher from a couple of years ago (can't remember which site) that would ramble on and on about water and life like it was some mystery.  The guy also had a terrible understanding about QM and hated the idea that statistics was involved in the calculations.  It sounds like the same guy.

So welcome back wellwisher, I figured you died or something since as I recall you're an old fart (like myself).

Nice to see you again. I have been evolving my ideas and found my seams. Now my understanding of QM uses the applied science paradox of entropy; determinacy glued together by  indeterminacy. I had been arguing from the order or State side, while QM argued more from the disorder aside. But now I understand you need both sides of the paradox, and then everything clicks. 

What I added to my water model is applied science entropy and a new physic model.

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 09/05/2025 23:55:01
I believe it is to do with waters extremley high specific heat capacity and it being extremley abundent, it allows the regulation of the planet. Trouble is that when the water regulates the planet this energy transfer can be extremley problematic.

You can ask what's so special about carbon, which it is.

Water is unique on the earth, in that it is the only natural material that exists as three phases at the same time on earth. The poles are ice, we have the oceans of liquid water and the atmosphere gas. In thunderstorms we can get gas, liquid and solid all together.

The liquid state of the oceans and water's huge heat capacity, keeps the earth cool. If we had no oceans the earth's temperature would be about 50C and not its current 15C.

On the hand, water vapor in the atmosphere, acts as a greenhouse gas, that can trap heat. If the earth has no water at all, including the atmosphere, the earth would be -18C instead of 15C.

The poles which are solid water or ice, reflect solar heat. As an ice age approaches and the surface area of snow/ice increases, this solar reflection will amplify the cooling. While melting of the polar Ice caps, reduces the reflected heat, so the earth will warm faster.

Weather is primarily based on the phase transitions of water; usually but not always between gas and liquid and liquid to gas. When liquid water is evaporated by the sun, the gas adds a partial pressure to the atmosphere; higher pressure. This is because we get about 1100 times volume change, going from liquid to gas. When it condenses as rain, the reverse volume changes pulls a vacuum; low pressure system.

When we have a hurricane, and lots of water is condensing, the vacuum can become large, with that vacuum pulling in air and more moisture. The thunderstorms in hurricanes, are built up by rising warm moist air, As they get higher in the cooler upper atmosphere, condensation speeds up and amplifies the vacuum; vacuum up even more warm moist air as tornados.

This change from vapor to liquid involves countless water based hydrogen bonds which plays a role in the huge state called the hurricane. This is a unique stable state, but on a timeline. Water can organize hurricanes 200-500 km wide, as well as tiny cells that are 10 to 100 micron wide by similar integrating approaches.
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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #10 on: 11/05/2025 15:00:54 »
Water is the most researched material in all of science. That research has characterized over 70 anomalous properties of water, where water bucks the trends found in most other natural materials. One anomaly, that is critical to life on earth, is water expands when it freezes. All other natural materials, besides the element, Antimony, contract when they freeze. This allows ice to float on liquid water.

If water contracted when it froze, the oceans would snow down the heavier ice, to the ocean floor, where it would never get warm enough to melt, thereby the oceans would freeze. On the other hand, because ice floats, it becomes an insulation layer; igloo effect.

Along with water expanding when it freezes, there is another related anomaly. Water has a maximum density at 4C, where it is still a liquid. Water, a 4C, will expand whether you heat or cool it. This has to do with changes in the hydrogen bonding.

What this does is allow cold water, in winter, to sink, but only to  4C. If it gets any colder, water now  starts to float and stops the cold water convection downward. Instead it floats for further expansion into ice. This anomaly will require entire the body water first needs to get 4C, before the chill can move downward. While the deep ocean water heat capacity stays ahead of this with rising warmth. Once the ice forms, then we also have insulation.


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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #11 on: 11/05/2025 15:38:30 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 07/05/2025 16:41:52
Cart before horse!

Life as we know it is an inevitable consequence of water, thanks to the hydrogen bond which determines the chemistry of life and the physics (see BC's comment on ice) that allows it to happen on wet planets.

Whilst polymeric silicon compounds can mimic  the structure of many simple carbon compounds, I'm not aware of any that allow for the sterically-determined  hydrogen bonds that are essential for replication of DNA.

This might be a good time to address why DNA is a primarily a right handed helix. B-DNA is the most common conformations of DNA in life and is right handed. However, z-DNA also forms which is left handed. The difference between the two is their degree of hydration, with B-DNA the most hydrated of all the various conformations of DNA. As the DNA evolved in water, water fined tuned it to get it just right (handed). The double helix of water, within the major and minor grooves of the DNA double helix, positions the helix to become optimized in water as right-handed.

Quote
.The DNA double helix can take up several conformations (for example, right-handed A-DNA pitch 28.2 ? 11 bp, B-DNA pitch 34 ? 10 bp, C-DNA pitch 31 ? 9.33 bp, D-DNA pitch 24.2 ? 8 bp, and the left-handed Z-DNA pitch 43? 12 bp) with differing hydration. The predominant natural DNA, B-DNA, has a wide and deep major groove and a narrow and deep minor groove and requires the greatest hydration. Lowering the hydration (for example, by adding ethanol) may cause transitions from B-DNA to A-DNA [2784] to Z-DNA.

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Offline paul cotter

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #12 on: 11/05/2025 18:42:46 »
You seem to be quite hydrophilic yourself.
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Offline Petrochemicals

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #13 on: 11/05/2025 19:52:26 »
Quote from: Wellwisher on 10/05/2025 16:01:03
Quote from: Origin on 09/05/2025 20:50:50
There was a guy called wellwisher from a couple of years ago (can't remember which site) that would ramble on and on about water and life like it was some mystery.  The guy also had a terrible understanding about QM and hated the idea that statistics was involved in the calculations.  It sounds like the same guy.

So welcome back wellwisher, I figured you died or something since as I recall you're an old fart (like myself).

Nice to see you again. I have been evolving my ideas and found my seams. Now my understanding of QM uses the applied science paradox of entropy; determinacy glued together by  indeterminacy. I had been arguing from the order or State side, while QM argued more from the disorder aside. But now I understand you need both sides of the paradox, and then everything clicks. 

What I added to my water model is applied science entropy and a new physic model.

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 09/05/2025 23:55:01
I believe it is to do with waters extremley high specific heat capacity and it being extremley abundent, it allows the regulation of the planet. Trouble is that when the water regulates the planet this energy transfer can be extremley problematic.

You can ask what's so special about carbon, which it is.

Water is unique on the earth, in that it is the only natural material that exists as three phases at the same time on earth. The poles are ice, we have the oceans of liquid water and the atmosphere gas. In thunderstorms we can get gas, liquid and solid all together.

The liquid state of the oceans and water's huge heat capacity, keeps the earth cool. If we had no oceans the earth's temperature would be about 50C and not its current 15C.

On the hand, water vapor in the atmosphere, acts as a greenhouse gas, that can trap heat. If the earth has no water at all, including the atmosphere, the earth would be -18C instead of 15C.

The poles which are solid water or ice, reflect solar heat. As an ice age approaches and the surface area of snow/ice increases, this solar reflection will amplify the cooling. While melting of the polar Ice caps, reduces the reflected heat, so the earth will warm faster.

Weather is primarily based on the phase transitions of water; usually but not always between gas and liquid and liquid to gas. When liquid water is evaporated by the sun, the gas adds a partial pressure to the atmosphere; higher pressure. This is because we get about 1100 times volume change, going from liquid to gas. When it condenses as rain, the reverse volume changes pulls a vacuum; low pressure system.

When we have a hurricane, and lots of water is condensing, the vacuum can become large, with that vacuum pulling in air and more moisture. The thunderstorms in hurricanes, are built up by rising warm moist air, As they get higher in the cooler upper atmosphere, condensation speeds up and amplifies the vacuum; vacuum up even more warm moist air as tornados.

This change from vapor to liquid involves countless water based hydrogen bonds which plays a role in the huge state called the hurricane. This is a unique stable state, but on a timeline. Water can organize hurricanes 200-500 km wide, as well as tiny cells that are 10 to 100 micron wide by similar integrating approaches.

That's pretty much what I said. But the problems is that the thermoregulation of the planet means that more water is in the atmosphere and sea levels can rise.
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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #14 on: 12/05/2025 14:02:07 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 11/05/2025 19:52:26
Quote from: Wellwisher on 10/05/2025 16:01:03
Quote from: Origin on 09/05/2025 20:50:50
There was a guy called wellwisher from a couple of years ago (can't remember which site) that would ramble on and on about water and life like it was some mystery.  The guy also had a terrible understanding about QM and hated the idea that statistics was involved in the calculations.  It sounds like the same guy.

So welcome back wellwisher, I figured you died or something since as I recall you're an old fart (like myself).

Nice to see you again. I have been evolving my ideas and found my seams. Now my understanding of QM uses the applied science paradox of entropy; determinacy glued together by  indeterminacy. I had been arguing from the order or State side, while QM argued more from the disorder aside. But now I understand you need both sides of the paradox, and then everything clicks. 

What I added to my water model is applied science entropy and a new physic model.

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 09/05/2025 23:55:01
I believe it is to do with waters extremley high specific heat capacity and it being extremley abundent, it allows the regulation of the planet. Trouble is that when the water regulates the planet this energy transfer can be extremley problematic.

You can ask what's so special about carbon, which it is.

Water is unique on the earth, in that it is the only natural material that exists as three phases at the same time on earth. The poles are ice, we have the oceans of liquid water and the atmosphere gas. In thunderstorms we can get gas, liquid and solid all together.

The liquid state of the oceans and water's huge heat capacity, keeps the earth cool. If we had no oceans the earth's temperature would be about 50C and not its current 15C.

On the hand, water vapor in the atmosphere, acts as a greenhouse gas, that can trap heat. If the earth has no water at all, including the atmosphere, the earth would be -18C instead of 15C.

The poles which are solid water or ice, reflect solar heat. As an ice age approaches and the surface area of snow/ice increases, this solar reflection will amplify the cooling. While melting of the polar Ice caps, reduces the reflected heat, so the earth will warm faster.

Weather is primarily based on the phase transitions of water; usually but not always between gas and liquid and liquid to gas. When liquid water is evaporated by the sun, the gas adds a partial pressure to the atmosphere; higher pressure. This is because we get about 1100 times volume change, going from liquid to gas. When it condenses as rain, the reverse volume changes pulls a vacuum; low pressure system.

When we have a hurricane, and lots of water is condensing, the vacuum can become large, with that vacuum pulling in air and more moisture. The thunderstorms in hurricanes, are built up by rising warm moist air, As they get higher in the cooler upper atmosphere, condensation speeds up and amplifies the vacuum; vacuum up even more warm moist air as tornados.

This change from vapor to liquid involves countless water based hydrogen bonds which plays a role in the huge state called the hurricane. This is a unique stable state, but on a timeline. Water can organize hurricanes 200-500 km wide, as well as tiny cells that are 10 to 100 micron wide by similar integrating approaches.

That's pretty much what I said. But the problems is that the thermoregulation of the planet means that more water is in the atmosphere and sea levels can rise.

One of the problems with predicting the sea level rising, is gravity of the earth is not uniform all over the surface. For example, the bulge at the equator makes the earth about 27 miles wider at the equator than the poles, yet the ocean water does not seek its own level and flow to the poles.

Besides that, Scientists have shown that the materials of the inner earth, at the equator, are less dense than from pole to pole. The gravity appears to be a wash, in spite of the water height difference with less dense materials. The bulge may not be caused by the rotation of the earth, as had been previous assumed by the legacy earth theory.

My theory is this material density difference has to do with the solar evaporation maxima at the equator. The evaporation of water maximum, at the equator, makes the atmosphere above the equator the most positive; high pressure, due to exposing the hydrogen of single water vapor molecules. This sets the highest potential with the electrons in the iron core.

Studies have shown that water is continuous from the atmosphere to the iron core, with the core water reactive with the core. Water is rusting the core and releasing electrons; outer core. My guess is a flux of electrons is flowing to the surface, while water is moving to the core This is maximized at the equator; solar evaporation zone. These fluxes alters the chemical composition of the inner earth at the equator, most, making this material fluffier. The oceans are slightly alkaline or slightly negatively charged.

Although water is lighter than all the inner earth minerals, the reason water goes to the core is driven by the second law; entropy of mixing. As you increase the contained temperature and pressure of water, it becomes an increasingly aggressive dissolver of inner earth materials. Going from the surface to the core, is the direction of the 2nd law. It is very likely that life giving planets not only need water, but also an iron core, for the water-iron electron flux. The pH of blood is slightly alkaline and uses iron for oxygen exchange; iron oxide.

Besides that, satellite observations have shown that the gravity of the earth's surface is not uniform. You can have sea level both rising and falling at the same time at different places. There are places going under water and other places holding steady.



Another discovery was a large scare on the Atlantic Ocean floor where the mantle is exposed. The earth's mantle contains oceans of water, but is in an exotic water phase called supersonic water. This phase of water is nasty stuff. It can dissolve any crust material. If you lower pressure so it converts back to the hydrothermal water, which is more common to the crust, it explodes like TNT. This drastic phase change may help to lift and slide the continental plates over the mantle.  It appears it can also blow a hole in the ocean floor and release hot water; hydrothermal and steam heat.

Another interesting is phase of inner earth water is hydrothermal water, which appears at the pressures and temperatures inside the crust and closer to the mantle. This phase of water can dissolve crustal minerals like quartz. It is  also very aggressive to organic compounds. In fact, hydrothermal  water is used as a chemical sanitation process to grind down cancer causing organics chemical to CO2. Conceptually, if hydrothermal water was to breech a fossil fuel deposit, it would generate lots of CO2. 

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Re: Why is water considered critical for life?
« Reply #15 on: 12/05/2025 17:10:53 »
Re "One of the problems with predicting the sea level rising, is gravity of the earth is not uniform all over the surface. For example, the bulge at the equator makes the earth about 27 miles wider at the equator than the poles"
Why?
Here's a hint
" the ocean water does not seek its own level and flow to the poles."
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