[nubemet]

Microsoft's quality is not going down for the simple reason they didn't have any to begin with!
 []

[lyner]

Microsoft's quality is not going down for the simple reason they didn't have any to begin with!
 []

Have you ever used Excel? Have you any concept of what an excellent piece of software it is (and has always been)? Don't make such blanket statements or you shoot yourself in the foot.

[latebind (OP)]

Microsoft's quality is not going down for the simple reason they didn't have any to begin with!
 []

The simple fact that you have access to a computer to write that sentence is because Microsoft played a big role in bringing you it! The fact that this super-cool website is accessible to nearly everyone is because Microsoft played a big role in bringing you it!

Now on a lighter note, there should be a law forbidding someone from using a computer if they have a negative IQ. So nubemet consider yourself lucky to use a computer, and thank Microsoft.

[LeeE]

I'm with nubernet; the quality of MS software has always been very poor.  I think that both Sophicentaur and latebind are confusing features with quality.  Like I said earlier, rather than "It just works", it's more a case of "It works, just".

MS software, especially in terms of their apps running on top of their OS's, is fragile.

There's tons of rilly, rilly clever software, but it falls on it's face half of the time and only works when everything is just so.  Instead of being unlucky when it fails, you're actually being lucky when it works.  There's a huge difference between the two, for the people who have to keep it working.

Edit: correct a "your" for a "you're"

[Andrew K Fletcher]

Eth. Where is the best place to host a website at little or perferably zero cost?

And if I found a website design and sent you a link asking how do they do that could ya enlighten me a little? I have installed notetab and had a play with soms fuctions. Is there anything apart from dreamweaver, which I find too complicated, that will do the job I want.

Looking at a fairly basic info based webpage with a scroll bar on R/H.

[DoctorBeaver]

Andrew - I'll send you an IM.

[lyner]

I'm with nubernet; the quality of MS software has always been very poor.  I think that both Sophicentaur and latebind are confusing features with quality.  Like I said earlier, rather than "It just works", it's more a case of "It works, just".

MS software, especially in terms of their apps running on top of their OS's, is fragile.

There's tons of rilly, rilly clever software, but it falls on it's face half of the time and only works when everything is just so.  Instead of being unlucky when it fails, you're actually being lucky when it works.  There's a huge difference between the two, for the people who have to keep it working.

Edit: correct a "your" for a "you're"

My copies of Excel, since 1992, have always run on MACOS and have been very good. Not just 'features', as you claim, but good, solid, working machines. It may well be an exception, even within Microsoft Office but it disproves the "Microsoft all bad" claim.
Excel matches Photoshop in size and strength.
Much as some people dislike Microsoft, as a matter of principle, there is a lot of alternative software out there which is really really rubbish.
So many 'enthusiasts' say how good the minority platforms are but there is only Apple who provide a serious working alternative. And, if there were only Apple, only a fraction of the population would be using computers at all.
Buy a cheap, database, drawing, w/p package from some minority source. How satisfied are you likely to be? There is a lot of non-Microsoft stuff which is total garbage.

[DoctorBeaver]

I use OpenOffice. I find it at least equal to MS Office in all respects and superior in many. For a start the file sizes are much smaller. Plus I can access the data on Windows or Linux PCs.

I do agree, though, that some independent software is rubbish. I've downloaded some that wouldn't even install.

[lyner]

Open Office is good, I've heard. Where else do you find it better than MS Office?

[DoctorBeaver]

I find it faster & easier to use. The menu layouts seem more logical to me. Plus I've had a few problems with integration between different parts of MS Office in the past but none of that with OO. I also like it because it can read MS Office files. Strange that MS doesn't read OO files, isn't it.

[lyner]

Strange that MS doesn't read OO files, isn't it.

Doesn't 'choose to', possibly?

[paul.fr]

talking about microsoft falling apart, is this any evidence?

Microsoft kills MSN Encarta

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Wikipedia dunnit

By Austin Modine • Get more from this author

Posted in Music and Media, 30th March 2009 23:48 GMT

Free whitepaper – Putting corporate information to better use

Microsoft is pulling the plug on its MSN Encarta encyclopedia websites and software, following Wikipedia's obliteration of the online reference market.

In a message posted on the MSN Encarta website, Microsoft said the sites worldwide will be discontinued on October 31, with the exception of Encarta Japan, which will be stayed until the end of December.

Microsoft Student and Encarta Premium software will stop being sold by June 2009.

From the posting:

    Encarta has been a popular product around the world for many years. However, the category of traditional encyclopedia and reference material has changed. People today seek and consume information in considerably different ways than in years past.

Which is a bit of an understatement. According to internet tracker Hitwise, Wikipedia accounts for 97 per cent of all online encyclopedia visits from US internet users. MSN Encarta takes a very distant second with only 1.27 per cent of the market, and Encyclopedia.com is third at 0.76 per cent.

This may not be the end of Microsoft's reference offerings entirely, however. The company wrote that it believes the assets it's accrued with Encarta can be used in developing "future technology solutions."

Current subscribers to MSN Encarta premium services as of April 30 will receive a refund for services paid beyond that date. They will still have access to Encarta premium services until October, however.

The software maker has been busy axing its less appreciated departments in recent months to save costs, including its consumer antivirus product OneCare, subscription security software package Equipt, and even its successful and long-running Flight Simulator software. ®
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/30/microsoft_kills_msn_encarta/

[yor_on]

I agree to Windows up to XP pro being build on a lot of rehashing and a inferior memory handling (Dos). That's why they migrated to their NT NTFS kernel which is a Unix 'lookalike'. But what they also had in the beginning, not having any more, was an openness and willingness to integrate 'third party software' in Windows, nowadays it seems to become harder and harder restrictions for how program should be written to be compatible, and it will cost the developer money to get the tools and instructions, and the 'approved stamp'.

So once the OS of choice for all wanting to create some fun program, nowadays it's not that interesting any more. The OS have lost its 'backwards comparability' and grown to gigantic proportions. It seems to depend on what 'MS divisions' that are working with what code if it will be good or not. I have great difficulties accepting a OS of ten GB or more, just to be able to start it up, and the way they are 'locking' their OS up. Xp pro is probably the last system from MS for me Otherwise I think Linux is superior, even though it may not yet be a 'gamers' machine. And a strong plus is that in Linux the code is open, I wonder how many hidden 'databases' ten GB can contain?

[DoctorBeaver]

I had problems with Windows compatibility issues when Vista was first released. Where I worked we were considering migrating to Vista but wanted to try it out first. Consequently mine was the only Vista PC in the office, ther rest being XP. I couldn't read any Excel spreadsheets or Access databases that had been created on the XP PCs without converting them to the new format and that meant the XP PCs could no longer read them.

I cannot understand why backwards compatibility was not built into Vista Office unless it was an attempt to make everyone switch to Vista 100% rather than have a mix of Vista & XP PCs.

We also had repetitive problems accessing the network printers from it. They kept disappearing from the list or would appear twice (the network was set up by a Microsoft Certified Network Engineer). Often, when they did appear correctly, the whole PC would freeze while printing.

So, while you could say that Vista Office worked perfectly well, which it did, I would say that the quality of the product left a lot to be desired. Vista itself was slower than the XP PCs despite my PC having a faster processor and more memory. It took longer to shut down or boot despite not having as many programs start on boot-up. It certainly seemed to be a backwards step from XP.

Because of all the problems we ditched it & went back to XP.

I also had problems with Vista at home. There were compatibility issues with so-called "Vista ready" AOL. It simply did not work. AOL blamed MS and MS blamed AOL. Guess what... after a Vista update was downloaded it worked.

[lyner]

Use OS 10 then. It works and there are very few compatibility issues.
A Mac Mini won't cost you much and you will use it for years. You have kbd, monitor and some drives, I imagine.

[DoctorBeaver]

I'm quite happy with XP & especially Ubuntu. I'm going to have a look at W7 7000 too. I really don't see any point in using Vista as it seems to have no advantages over XP and a few disadvantages.

[DoctorBeaver]

You have kbd, monitor and some drives, I imagine.

Plenty

[lyner]

Go on then - have a dabble.

[DoctorBeaver]

I had a look at the Mac Mini and I'm not really that tempted. The cheapest I could find was £339 and that only had 256Mb RAM & a 40Gb drive. By the time I upped it to a decent spec the price would be almost that of an entry level iMac.

The review stated that "...the integreated WiFi isn't standard either". I'm not sure what that means.

For the same price or less, I could get a higher spec PC with monitor & kb included and put Linux on it.

[lyner]

You can forget a direct comparison between 'spec' for Mac and PC, remember. The clock speeds have always been lower on Macs but getting a job done is what counts (what's a 'Wizard for"?). The iMac is more desirable if you want it to 'look like' a Mac but the works of a mini are much the same as the works of the iMac. afaik, the mini has wifi - I sometimes use it on mine.
Also, a price comparison is misleading. They don't seem to break down. I have had an LC, a 'Beige' Power Mac, a G3 and now a Mini. The only breakdowns have been one mouse and one CD drive. I still use an old G3 iBook of my Son's (using it for this post), bought second hand, in 2002. How many PCs of that age are still working without any attention?
Opening up the sides of a tower unit and tinkering doesn't appeal to me. I have only done that for more memory or a bigger hard drive.
It's just a different world. Macs are for 'users'; they aren't for amateur 'enthusiasts', really. It's a very 'tight' Operating System and not easy to play with - but why would one want to?
Then there is the security. I have never been aware of any nasties at all, since OSX came along.