the universe as a ten dimensional binary system

  • 378 Replies
  • 82713 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #100 on: 12/06/2009 22:10:10 »
Golly Vern.  Thanks for the info.  Can't get over that I now know someone who lives in the dreaded alley.  I love watching tornedos from the safe distance of Africa.  We never get them here.  A force of nature.  I keep tapes on them made by storm chasers.  Love the excitement - but they're massively destructive.  I've seen pictures of whole towns blown away.  Could never work out why people live in wooden houses when they're so vulnerable.  Glad to hear you've got brick.  But they can also lose the odd roof, wall windows - whatever.

If I lived there I'd build the main house below ground level.  With a cement roof!!  Glad all's well.  I'll post again tomorrow.  Hope you'll be around.  It's definitely my bed time.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #101 on: 12/06/2009 22:21:34 »
Tornadoes are not bad as long as you get out of their way.

This is a  link about Cabot We get our share of tornadoes. The last to actually hit our town was in 1976. My wife and I were both at work and came home to destruction. But our house was spared. Our six kids were in school. It missed the school by less than a block.

Quote from: the link
A devastating tornado hit downtown Cabot during the afternoon of March 29, 1976, killing five people and destroying multiple buildings. During the rebuilding of the city, it was decided to build a new city hall, municipal courtroom, library (since relocated), and police station on the site of the debris-filled dividing point between the east and west sections of Main Street, creating City Plaza. Arkansas Highway 89, which follows the same path as West Main Street in Cabot, was redirected around City Plaza along one block of Second Street, to continue its path along Pine Street just south of the Cabot High School campus.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #102 on: 13/06/2009 00:29:41 »
Golly Vern.  Thanks for the info.  Can't get over that I now know someone who lives in the dreaded alley.  I love watching tornedos from the safe distance of Africa.  We never get them here.  A force of nature.  I keep tapes on them made by storm chasers.  Love the excitement - but they're massively destructive.  I've seen pictures of whole towns blown away.  Could never work out why people live in wooden houses when they're so vulnerable.  Glad to hear you've got brick.  But they can also lose the odd roof, wall windows - whatever.

If I lived there I'd build the main house below ground level.  With a cement roof!!  Glad all's well.  I'll post again tomorrow.  Hope you'll be around.  It's definitely my bed time.

I have to worry about tornados also. When I lived in New York it was hurracaines. In Virginia Beach one Hurricain stood over our house for over a day. It kept circuling.
  Another one knocked down 15 trees. Now in Cary North Carolina I don't have to worry about hurricaines but we occassionally get some tornados.
If things get bad we can run into a little room under the stairs in the middle of the house. However it has been over 20 years since a bad tornado did any damage. A few weeks ago one touched down in Cary but did no damage. In general once the storms pass over the mountains, they are weak. The tornados seem to like the flat land best. I am at 500 foot elevation.

  Once in Connecticut I was in the middle of a tornado. It was strange. I pulled into a parking lot and the tornado hit. My rental car was rocked up and down slightly. The water on the ground flowed upward into the air. It was over in a few minutes. My hotel had no lights when I got their. They said I could cancel the reservation. But where to go. So I found the room using my cigarette lighter.
  All night long I slept fearing what would happen if the motel caught fire. How would I escape in the pitch dark. No exit lights were working and my lighter had little fuel.
  Finally I woke up in the daylight. To my surprize there was an exit door in the room to the terrace. We were only a few feet off the ground. I could have walked right out the door to safety if the motel was on fire.
  Anyway often up north and in Cary we get F1 tornado's. Some are even F 0.5 even though they usually just specify F1. So you can be in a tornado and have little damage. The house roof could blow off. Windows broken but no real danger to many people. Of course in Tornado alley, they get some pretty bad stuff. Houses should all be built with an internal safe room good for 200 miles per hour.

*

paul.fr

  • Guest
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #103 on: 13/06/2009 01:39:26 »
They depict tornados on this TV newscast with little yellowish curls

I think you are seeing the radar image of a hook echo.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #104 on: 13/06/2009 05:12:30 »
Yeah; hook echoes show up, but the news cast enhances the reported sightings with the yellow graphic curly things. It is helpful. We can know where the knot of the storm is and follow its progress.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #105 on: 13/06/2009 12:34:01 »
Quote from: witsend
Vern.  Just to recap. The interaction between the 2 zippon composite and the field is proposed as the 'driving force' so to speak of the photon's path which would then radiate outwards in the neutral field of that curved framework of the primary magnetic field.  In effect, all the photon's two composites would then do is systematically swap places with each other.  No real expenditure of energy.  Just a closed system.  The actual electromagnetic interaction comes when it is moved, not courtesy it's own energy but courtesy the the energy from the field that then rejects one half of the photon's composite.
I first thought that the 2c might be needed to alternate movement so that the composite movement comes out to c, but this does not seem to be so. Then that gets me back to wondering howcome 2c?

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #106 on: 13/06/2009 13:22:51 »
Hi Vern.  Delighted to see you're there.  I'm going to read through the thread and answer your last post. Glad to see that all survived your storms.  I read up about Cabot's destruction - 30 odd years back?  That's scarey.  It must have crippled some re-insurers.

I've got the whole afternoon/evening free - bar some cooking.  So I intend plodding on and hopefully you'll be around now and then to review.  Need to catch up and will get back to you.

Edit - I see I'm a FULL MEMBER.  How did that happen?  It must be some kind of distinction.  I think it means that contributors need to treat me with due courtesy and respect!!  I am now a fully initiated and honory peer.  Take heed those Sophiecentaurs of this strange universe of the forum!! [???]

And Paul, a new contributor?  He makes you look like a beginner Vern.  One more post at a total of 5000.  I so regret joining this so late.  I should have joined 10 years ago.  Was the forum around then?
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 13:38:59 by witsend »

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #107 on: 13/06/2009 13:59:44 »
Then that gets me back to wondering howcome 2c?Vern

It's a ratio of the composite size of the zippon to the photon.  2c half the composite of the photon (same question is it volume/size/what??) twice the velocity.  The photon 2 zippons, twice the (volume/size) therefore half the velocity. 

I take it you get the interaction with the field - when the two truants also interact or 'swap lattices'?  And I take it that you see that the zippon has no idea of the truants until they 'tresspass' on that boundary.  The blog description of the 'frequency' interaction of the photon with the primary field is a one step, two step, turn around dance action.  Bit repetitive.

Now.  I could also find a stable interaction with the field in a composite of three zipons.  I've proposed that this is an electron.  The biggest truant is a bit like the photon.  The second truant is same mass/size/velocity of the zipon in the field.  But it's in antiphase with the field.  The third anchoring truant or quark - same as the photon.  Here the charge to the field is 3 from the truants and 1 from the field.  The field and the 1 from the truant composite cancel and it leaves 2 charges.  These give the composite 2 directions.  So.  A continual interaction with the field and an intermittant interaction while the two outer truants move towards the field to swap their lattices.  This could also be OK because, in a bubble chamber an electron spirals - and if it were interacting with magnetic fields in that chamber - then it would definitely spiral.

Which means that the 'interactive moment' with the field would be much like a photon but would take a third longer to complete.  It would simply flicker out of view, or vanish - for a little bit longer.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #108 on: 13/06/2009 14:02:47 »
W:Apparently string theory math is postively exotic. But always remember, they've cracked the code. They just haven't found the particle.
JG: On Page 286 “The Trouble with physics” Lee Smolin, he says
   “So I sympathize strongly with the plight of string theorists who want both to be good scientists and to have the approval of powerful people in their field. I understand the difficulty of thinking clearly and independently which acceptance in your community requires belief in a complicated set of ideas that you don’t know how to prove yourself. This is a trap it took me years to think my way out of.”

  Sorry W, the String theorists have only made their own code. Their ideas are quite foolish. From a practical point of view their ideas are pure nonsense. They make pretty pictures but the universe is a more simple place. It is basically 3 dimensional except when we go to plank length. Then we only see tiny differences in time dimensions which are easy to understand.

W: I actually need 10. It's because the magnetic fields have three dimensions of space (share ours) but operate in a different time dimension. We've sort of defined that? I think so.
JG: I agree with you on that. Except the plus magnetic field is in one time dimension and the minus magnetic field is across the barrier in the other time dimension. The time difference between the dimensions is Plank time
  Delta time = 1E-44 seconds approximately.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #109 on: 13/06/2009 14:08:21 »
Hi JerryGG38 - I know we've got something similar here.  I think your's is more likely to be right.  But I can't wrap my mind around the thought that those magnetic monopoles could stay apart.  Just through the force of attraction.  But, in any event.  Let's suppose something.  Let's say that your's is a more fundamental view.  Mine a secondary event.  Right or wrong - at this stage they're both ideas.

Delighted to see that you're around. 

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #110 on: 13/06/2009 14:12:37 »
Quote from: witsend
Edit - I see I'm a FULL MEMBER.  How did that happen?  It must be some kind of distinction.  I think it means that contributors need to treat me with due courtesy and respect!!  I am now a fully initiated and honory peer.  Take heed those Sophiecentaurs of this strange universe of the forum!! Huh?
It is a little magical property of this forum. The more posts you have, the more rating you get. When your posts exceeded 100 you became a full member.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #111 on: 13/06/2009 14:13:35 »
JerryGG38 - BTW - Your model also needs multi dimensions.  Surely?  I have no idea of string theorists, but Smolen aside, there are quite a few such theorists at every university and they swear they've reached that magical unification of all the forces.  The problem is that no-one including themselves, seem to fully understand what they've found.  And there are just so many different answers.  Which doesn't help
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 14:16:08 by witsend »

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #112 on: 13/06/2009 14:14:48 »
Quote from: witsend
I take it you get the interaction with the field - when the two truants also interact or 'swap lattices'?  And I take it that you see that the zippon has no idea of the truants until they 'tresspass' on that boundary.  The blog description of the 'frequency' interaction of the photon with the primary field is a one step, two step, turn around dance action.  Bit repetitive.
I don't quite get the vision of the lattice. I know about lattices that flowering plants grow on, little boards arranged in a pattern; but I am sure that you have some other vision of it.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #113 on: 13/06/2009 14:15:18 »
Hi Vern.  I guessed as much when I saw the distinction of the sheer number of posts by different contributors.  I intend to catch up quick.  Did you read my composite electron?

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #114 on: 13/06/2009 14:19:47 »
Lattice - purely an imaginary line defined by the charges moving together through that axial spin.  I had an idea it fitted with your description of the movement of the photon.  For that matter, also with JerryGG38's. 

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #115 on: 13/06/2009 14:25:51 »
Re lattices - Vern.  I also think that the primary field would then form a kind of lattice.  But the whole concept of lattice is wrong if it implies anything static.  Perhaps I should use another term.  Happy to take suggestions.

I'd love you to think of a way of showing this through your trick with those moving shapes.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #116 on: 13/06/2009 14:31:00 »
Quote from: witsend
I'd love you to think of a way of showing this through your trick with those moving shapes.
I haven't quite got the picture well enough established in my mind. I might could do it when I get the picture. I don't want to spend a lot of effort making something that is not your vision.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #117 on: 13/06/2009 14:41:24 »
JerryGG38 - BTW - Your model also needs multi dimensions.  Surely?  I have no idea of string theorists, but Smolen aside, there are quite a few such theorists at every university and they swear they've reached that magical unification of all the forces.  The problem is that no-one including themselves, seem to fully understand what they've found.  And there are just so many different answers.  Which doesn't help

Yes. I need three time dimensions. However the three time dimensions are very simple. Look at the hands of a clock. Right now we are at time zero. A split second ago we were at minus time. A split second into the future we will be at positive time. Therefore three time dimensions fit into differential equations quite readily.
   The strange dimensions of string theory are beyond our ability to conceive of them. We really cannot discuss them because they do not relate to anything we can imagine.
  My multi-lightspeed dimensions are merely things that travel and exist at higher or lower light speeds. This we can conceive as well. However we exist quite well independent of the other light speed dimensions.

   For the universe to exist at all, it is my belief and the belief of many scientists that ultimately we must find a very simple solution to the basics of the universe. String theory is too outrageous to be possible.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #118 on: 13/06/2009 14:46:02 »
JerryGG38 - BTW - Your model also needs multi dimensions.  Surely?  I have no idea of string theorists, but Smolen aside, there are quite a few such theorists at every university and they swear they've reached that magical unification of all the forces.  The problem is that no-one including themselves, seem to fully understand what they've found.  And there are just so many different answers.  Which doesn't help

Yes. I need three time dimensions. However the three time dimensions are very simple. Look at the hands of a clock. Right now we are at time zero. A split second ago we were at minus time. A split second into the future we will be at positive time. Therefore three time dimensions fit into differential equations quite readily.
   The strange dimensions of string theory are beyond our ability to conceive of them. We really cannot discuss them because they do not relate to anything we can imagine.
  My multi-lightspeed dimensions are merely things that travel and exist at higher or lower light speeds. This we can conceive as well. However we exist quite well independent of the other light speed dimensions.

   For the universe to exist at all, it is my belief and the belief of many scientists that ultimately we must find a very simple solution to the basics of the universe. String theory is too outrageous to be possible.

John Wheeler said
Quote
Some principle uniquely right and uniquely simple must, when one knows it, be also so obvious that it is clear that the universe is built, and must be built, in such and such a way and that it could not possibly be otherwise.

I suspect that simple principle is
Quote
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 14:47:39 by Vern »

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #119 on: 13/06/2009 14:51:03 »
This is the first mention I found of the concept. It comes from one of Einstein's articles. Development of Our Conception of the
Nature and Constitution of Radiation


Quote from: the link
H. Ziegler: If one thinks about the basic particles of matter as invisible little spheres which possess an invariable speed of light, then all interactions of matter like states and electrodynamic phenomena can be described and thus we would have erected the bridge between the material and immaterial world that Mr. Planck wanted.

Vern - I had to find this again.  Way back.  This thread is already getting too big.  Ziegler - 'invisible little spheres'

Let's start with that - with a north south - or plus minus demarction in those spheres.  Then the big spins towards the small - presenting appropriate charge, and the small spins to the big - also presenting appropriate charge.  The demarcation could also be a north/south axis so when they present they fit - north to south on both truants.  

But let your designs wait.  The picture is much more complex becasue both truants have two charges and if they also 'swap places' then there should also be a partial influence from the field.  Quite complex really.  Maybe better to get the whole picture and then apply that mind of yours to the details.  As I wrote that level of definition is way, way beyond me.  I've only got the skeleton.  You guys can sort out the shape. 

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #120 on: 13/06/2009 14:54:19 »
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.Vern

I agree.  I totally and wholeheartedly agree - BUT with one proviso - that the magnetic part of that electromagnetic interaction is not in our dimension.  Except for this difference I ENTIRELY agree.   [;D]
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 14:56:35 by witsend »

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #121 on: 13/06/2009 14:57:02 »

I suspect that simple principle is
Quote
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.

Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #122 on: 13/06/2009 14:59:38 »
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.Vern

I agree.  I totally and wholeheartedly agree - BUT with one proviso - that the magnetic part of that electromagnetic interaction is not in our dimension.  Except for this difference I ENTIRELY agree.   [;D]


Verns statement does not specify what dimensions the fields occupy. It could be three , four, five , ten etc.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #123 on: 13/06/2009 15:02:01 »
Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.EDIT - sorry JerryGG38

What do you mean?  I cannot understand how you can eliminate mass.  It's tangibly evident - everywhere?
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 15:04:20 by witsend »

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #124 on: 13/06/2009 15:06:39 »
Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.Vern

What do you mean?  I cannot understand how you can eliminate mass.  It's tangibly evident - everywhere?
Mass is electromagnetic change. [:)] Any time that change exists in a local area, it is mass. It is the only way the arithmetic works. This is standard stuff; not just my concept. It is just that we don't usually think of it that way.

BTW; the quote was from jerrygg38 not me but I agree with it.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #125 on: 13/06/2009 15:09:25 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
Verns statement does not specify what dimensions the fields occupy. It could be three , four, five , ten etc.
It only works in the familiar 3 + 1 dimensions.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #126 on: 13/06/2009 15:11:13 »
Vern - Jerrygg38 - Let's somehow get to the same page.  JerryGG38 says that he has no need of mass in an electric field.  You say that it is a required property in any electromagnetic interaction.  Am I missing something.  These two concepts seem diametrically opposite.  I have no problem with mass.  I have a problem in any universe at all without it.

What's actually being said here?  

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #127 on: 13/06/2009 15:14:31 »
Quote from: witsend
I agree.  I totally and wholeheartedly agree - BUT with one proviso - that the magnetic part of that electromagnetic interaction is not in our dimension.  Except for this difference I ENTIRELY agree.
I guess there could be other dimensions; I can make computer simulations of them, but I can't imagine that they could exist in real life.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #128 on: 13/06/2009 15:17:18 »
Quote from: witsend
These two concepts seem diametrically opposite.  I have no problem with mass.  I have a problem in any universe at all without it.
Mass exists; we are just considering its composition. The contention is that it consists of nothing other than electric and magnetic change trapped in local patterns.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #129 on: 13/06/2009 15:19:31 »
Yes. Since I have eliminated the necessity for the independent property of mass, all we have left is pure electrical theory.EDIT - sorry JerryGG38

What do you mean?  I cannot understand how you can eliminate mass.  It's tangibly evident - everywhere?

If you look at my Sister transformation theory you will see that in my theory I propose that
   MCC = QC = energy
  Therefore a moving charge at light speed has the property of energy
Therefore
  M = Q/C = coulombs seconds per meter

  This eliminates the need for kilograms. Therefore mass is elimated and replaced by an electrical term.
  Over the years I have had three different transformation solutions. I started with this one, then went to another sister solution, then I tried the mass equals charge solution. Finally I returned to my original equation of 1988.
   You think mass exists? Why? You pick some heavy object up and it is hard to do. You push against a wall and think it is a hard object. Why?
  If you take a three dimensional high speed gyroscope (3 axis) and try to lift it, you will find you cannot. It may weigh ten pounds but you cannot pick it up.
  Mass is merely the electromagnetic field spinning on 3 axis. It is not an independent property of nature.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #130 on: 13/06/2009 15:23:25 »
Quote from: witsend
I agree.  I totally and wholeheartedly agree - BUT with one proviso - that the magnetic part of that electromagnetic interaction is not in our dimension.  Except for this difference I ENTIRELY agree.
I guess there could be other dimensions; I can make computer simulations of them, but I can't imagine that they could exist in real life.

Think about a magnetic hysteresis loop. You know that exists in real life. Then think about a light speed hysteresis loop. Finally think about a space time hysteresis loop. In this way the universe is a hysteresis loop of plus time, minus time and zero time.
  It is not complex. It is just that the universe we live in is a composite of three time dimensions which are extremely close to each other.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #131 on: 13/06/2009 15:24:34 »
This eliminates the need for kilograms. Therefore mass is elimated and replaced by an electrical term.JerryGG38

OK - we're on the same page.  I'm with you.  I entirely agree.  The only difference between you me and Vern is this.  Vern says all is sufficient in the electromagnetic description.  You say is all sufficient in the Electric description.  And I say that the magnetic is separate from the electric description but I need both.

How interesting is that.  

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #132 on: 13/06/2009 15:32:44 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
Think about a magnetic hysteresis loop. You know that exists in real life. Then think about a light speed hysteresis loop. Finally think about a space time hysteresis loop. In this way the universe is a hysteresis loop of plus time, minus time and zero time.
I can imagine it; I just can't think of why it is needed.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #133 on: 13/06/2009 15:36:49 »
This eliminates the need for kilograms. Therefore mass is elimated and replaced by an electrical term.JerryGG38

OK - we're on the same page.  I'm with you.  I entirely agree.  The only difference between you me and Vern is this.  Vern says all is sufficient in the electromagnetic description.  You say is all sufficient in the Electric description.  And I say that the magnetic is separate from the electric description but I need both.

How interesting is that.  

The problem is a man named Maxwell. His excellent equations have formed the basis of much of electrical theory. You cannot separate the electric and magnetic fields. They are interconnected. One makes the other. To me the stationary dot-wave is the electric field while the moving dot-wave is the magnetic field. In general things move and stop, thus the electric field always turns into a magnetic field and visa versa.

  If you try to build a universe where the two fields are not sister properties, then the foundation of electrical theory is in jepoardy.

   On thing I saw you state previously is that two magnetic fields will not produce an electric field.
   If you bring two bar magnets toward each other, Each bar magnet will induce electric currents in the next bar magnet. Therefore the moving magnetic fields will produce electric fields and visa veras. you cannot disconnect the electric and magnetic fields from each other.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #134 on: 13/06/2009 15:38:38 »
Quote from: witsend
And I say that the magnetic is separate from the electric description but I need both.
Some physicists suspect that the two fields might exist separate from each other and that a magnetic monopole might exist. So far this has not been observed. A changing magnetic creates an electric etc.


Edit: jerrygg38; our posts crossed [:)] We're on the same page.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 15:40:50 by Vern »

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #135 on: 13/06/2009 15:43:03 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
Think about a magnetic hysteresis loop. You know that exists in real life. Then think about a light speed hysteresis loop. Finally think about a space time hysteresis loop. In this way the universe is a hysteresis loop of plus time, minus time and zero time.
I can imagine it; I just can't think of why it is needed.

From a mathematical viewpoint think about differential equations. It works based upon delta time. Thus the whole basis of our math is the present time verses the past time and verses future time. Therefore the whole basis of our universe is plus and minus differential time. Therefore in reality there is a memory of the past time.
  A rock moves slowly in pure empty space. There is a memory of the rock a split second ago. There are forces between the rock in the here and now and a split second ago. So we always have a universe of today and a universe of a split second ago. Now we get Einsteinian.
  The image of the rock's motion is ahead of the rock at the speed of light. Thus there is a fast forward component to the motion of the rock.
Now we have a t- universe, a t=0 universe and a t=+ universe.
   If we did not have three time universes, then differential equations would be eliminated. Our universe would be eliminated as well.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #136 on: 13/06/2009 15:49:14 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
Now we have a t- universe, a t=0 universe and a t=+ universe.
   If we did not have three time universes, then differential equations would be eliminated. Our universe would be eliminated as well.
I just always thought of the + and - of time to be properties of the time dimension.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #137 on: 13/06/2009 15:49:43 »
since we're discussing everything except my composites - let me say this.

There was a young lady of Bright,
Whose speed was much faster than light
She left one day in a relative way
And returned the previous night.


NOT sure of the relevance nor the composer for that matter. 
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 15:52:22 by witsend »

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #138 on: 13/06/2009 16:00:36 »
If you bring two bar magnets toward each other, Each bar magnet will induce electric currents in the next bar magnet. Therefore the moving magnetic fields will produce electric fields and visa veras. you cannot disconnect the electric and magnetic fields from each other. JerryGG38

I have spoken to the following academics on this question.  Professor Lyndsay, Professor Zingu, Professor Violie and Professor Claymans.  I have also written and/or spoken to 2 other professors and have written to a whole host of professors including phsyicists at Yale and Harvard.  Not one of them has claimed that there is an ELECTRIC FIELD in a magnet on magnet interaction.  All have said that it is assumed but unproven.  That was a decade ago.  I then looked for proof.  There's a guy who did some test to prove this and the proof was inconclusive.  But it IS published.  I cannot for the life of me find that paper. I agree that there may be an electric field (edit) in this magnet on magnet.  But there is NO PROOF of an electric field, to the best of my knowledge.
« Last Edit: 14/06/2009 11:13:06 by witsend »

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #139 on: 13/06/2009 16:17:37 »
And JerryGG38 - I'm not sure, but I think that the only thing that can shield one magnetic field is another magnetic field.  Can one shield an electric field with another electric field?  I actually don't know.  I've just thought of it.


*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #140 on: 13/06/2009 16:31:58 »
I guess there could be other dimensions; I can make computer simulations of them, but I can't imagine that they could exist in real life. Vern

If we can get back to this point maybe we can move on.  It's understood that we cannot see a particle in the magnetic field.  It could be that - if it did comprise particles and they moved at a velocity that exceeds light speed, then we would not easily be able to find that particle.  Well.  What if it is entirely impossible to find this particle becasue, not only does it exceed light speed but it, itself, moves light.  Then, like the balloon being blown by the wind, we could mistakenly say that the balloon has energy.  In the same way we could assume that light has energy to move it.

Now - that scenario - those nested 'ifs' present the theoretical potential that a particle in a magnetic field may be extant and may be forever invisible.  IF so, then it would be operating in a different time dimension to our own. 

Does that satisfy you guys?

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #141 on: 13/06/2009 17:21:49 »
Quote from: witsend
Now - that scenario - those nested 'ifs' present the theoretical potential that a particle in a magnetic field may be extant and may be forever invisible.  IF so, then it would be operating in a different time dimension to our own.
I don't understand why that would need to be that way. But it is possible I guess.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #142 on: 13/06/2009 17:37:00 »
Vern - I know the concepts are different.  More than likely wrong.  But there's a kind of logic.  I've decided not go through the composites.  It's obviously boring you both.  Should we rather discuss some other aspect.  Gravity?  Something?  Anything?  You choose.  Clearly I can't seem to explain the relevance of (EDIT) magnetic fields in this context?

EDIT Actually it wont work.  I've just tried it.  Without some concensus this arguement's going nowhere.  It'll just get back to Vern asking the signifcance and JerryGG38 arguing the correspondence to his model.  I'll maybe try this again tomorrow.
« Last Edit: 13/06/2009 18:06:16 by witsend »

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #143 on: 13/06/2009 17:51:36 »
Therefore the whole basis of our universe is plus and minus differential time. Therefore in reality there is a memory of the past time.jerryGG38

I've heard it argued that time is only backward flowing.  Based on the observation that we can see the past but not the future.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #144 on: 13/06/2009 18:57:43 »
This eliminates the need for kilograms. Therefore mass is elimated and replaced by an electrical term.JerryGG38

OK - we're on the same page.  I'm with you.  I entirely agree.  The only difference between you me and Vern is this.  Vern says all is sufficient in the electromagnetic description.  You say is all sufficient in the Electric description.  And I say that the magnetic is separate from the electric description but I need both.

How interesting is that.  

I agree with Vern. AS an EE, sometime I may say the electric universe. To me the electromagnetic field is the same as the electric field. so both terms mean the same to me.
  However since you want to separate the magnetic field from the electric field, I will have to watch what I say.
   You want to make the magnetic field primary and the electric field secondary instead of both interconnected. Therefore to you the electric field is a product of the magnetic field. The magnetic field could exist without the electric field.
  That is what I understand you to mean. However why stop there?

  We could have a system where the motion of some other force such as a spin (radians per second) is the primary force. The force produces the magnetic field. The interaction of the primary force with the magnetic field produces the electric field. Therefore both fields are the product of a more fundamental field.
  It is always a possibility that something we canno envision is the main driving force of the universe. Yet it is very difficult to go beyond what we have encountered. We know the magnetic field and the electric field. We know Maxwells equations. We know from experiments that electrical theory adequately defines most interactions in the universe.
  One solution for my Sister equations is that coulombs = radians per second. What does that mean? I think it might be correct but it says that the entire universe is the result of a spin of a wave.
   An alternative to the plus and minus universe is a magnetic/ electric universe. This splits the universe into 3 dimensions of neutral, 3 dimensions of magnetic plus, 3 dimensions of magnetic minus, 3 dimensions of electric plus, and 3 dimensions of electric minus. Therefore 15 dimensions all separated by the tiny plank distance.

   I have no problem with a sandwich of 15 dimensions as long as the separation is basically zero time and zero distance. However that is just to understand what is happening. We still must adhere to Maxwells equations.

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #145 on: 13/06/2009 19:13:10 »
Quote from: witsend
Now - that scenario - those nested 'ifs' present the theoretical potential that a particle in a magnetic field may be extant and may be forever invisible.  IF so, then it would be operating in a different time dimension to our own.
I don't understand why that would need to be that way. But it is possible I guess.

As I just posted, it is possible that the electric and magnetic fields are the product of some higher force which we cannot see or measure. However we reach a limit to our ability to understand. And even if we can sligtly undestand such things, it surely is basically impossible for us to discuss it with others.
  Vern, Witsend is attempting to go beyond the gound of our being and find the ultimate driving force of the universe. I try this as well. However in the end the greatest minds of man throughout the ages have produced concepts which are difficult to destroy. I can split the electric and magnetic field into different dimensions. That is okay with me. I cannot split the interactions between the fields because we have not seen such occurrences.
  The only thing that is lacking in modern theory is that the gravitational field is a bipolar electromagnetic field. The Earth spinning around the sun produces gravitational eddy currents in the sun and the produces the same in us.  Thus the bipolar field acts the same as the unipolar electromagnetic field.
   

*

Offline jerrygg38

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 781
    • View Profile
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #146 on: 13/06/2009 19:17:47 »
Therefore the whole basis of our universe is plus and minus differential time. Therefore in reality there is a memory of the past time.jerryGG38

I've heard it argued that time is only backward flowing.  Based on the observation that we can see the past but not the future.
   That is why I have a fast forward law.
   "The image of an object appears before the object at the speed of light"
   This law enables the Doppler mass. The Doppler mass is larger in the front of an object than behind it.
  This is all part of the gravitational field.  The moving gravitional field of an object occurs before the object appears.
  Physics has not accounted for the Doppler mass. Yet years ago in the Sperry Library were several studies of the Doppler Mass. The data appears to validate the Doppler mass but the change is so small that it is hard to prove completely. It is part of my space time equations.

*

Offline witsend

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 418
    • View Profile
    • Magnetic field model that enables overunity of electric systems
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #147 on: 13/06/2009 19:29:22 »
JerryGG38 - are we comparing our different models and trying to prove the one right the other wrong?  Or are we actually trying to understand each other?

It takes way too much time and is way too boring to try and compete.  I couldn't anyway.  I don't know your language.  Did you even read my posts?  If you didn't and only glanced at them - I can understand.  It's words.  Not math.  I think sophiecentaur's right.  I don't belong on this forum.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #148 on: 13/06/2009 19:51:42 »
Quote from: witsend
JerryGG38 - are we comparing our different models and trying to prove the one right the other wrong?  Or are we actually trying to understand each other?
My goal is simply to understand; I probably won't suspect that the concept represents reality. I may point out things that are similar to my own views or to other concepts that I know about.

*

Offline Vern

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2072
    • View Profile
    • Photonics
the universe as a ten dimensional binary system
« Reply #149 on: 13/06/2009 19:53:02 »
Quote from: jerrygg38
This law enables the Doppler mass. The Doppler mass is larger in the front of an object than behind it.
  This is all part of the gravitational field.  The moving gravitional field of an object occurs before the object appears.
I haven't heard of Doppler mass. I'll do some research.