[dlorde]

see that Dawkins' quote as well there about the "fact or truth " that we are just machines or robots driven by DNA through the natural selection of evolution...

Quite right; but that doesn't mean we can't identify and label particular behaviours and traits, and attribute certain abstract qualities to them. In fact, as you well know, that's exactly what we have done.

How, on earth , are  we supposed to be able to accomplish such a magical trick or extraordinary performance , if we are just determined machines robots then ?

What's magical about identifying patterns and abstracting their salient features as generics? We already have neural network based systems that can do that kind of thing.

You may be limiting your capability to follow these ideas by too simplistic a concept of machines or robots. Even non-biological machines can learn and adapt, and be creative.

[alancalverd]

Postscript re evolution and selection - just thought of an example whilst walking the dog.

The Smiths have two children, Alice and Bob, both fit and fertile. Parents have no food allergies but Alice is allergic to nuts and Bob is allergic to fish. All perfectly everyday consequences of the endogenous variability of genetic inheritance - evolution.

Now the corrupt and incompetent European Union bans the import of nuts (because Brazil nuts are radioactive) and insists everyone must eat fish on Fridays (because the Pope will excommunicate the EU Commission otherwise). So Bob dies and Alice lives. Environmental selection has taken place, and all the descendants of the Smith family have a genetic predisposition to a nut allergy, but can survive in the EU where the only nuts are in charge.

All Darwin did was to suggest that this is probably what happened to the Galapagos finches.

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

see that Dawkins' quote as well there about the "fact or truth " that we are just machines or robots driven by DNA through the natural selection of evolution...

Quite right; but that doesn't mean we can't identify and label particular behaviours and traits, and attribute certain abstract qualities to them. In fact, as you well know, that's exactly what we have done.

How, on earth , are  we supposed to be able to accomplish such a magical trick or extraordinary performance , if we are just determined machines robots then ?

What's magical about identifying patterns and abstracting their salient features as generics? We already have neural network based systems that can do that kind of thing.

You may be limiting your capability to follow these ideas by too simplistic a concept of machines or robots. Even non-biological machines can learn and adapt, and be creative.

I am not talking about that : what i mean is mainly : how can the mechanical brain give rise to abstract approaches  ?

Get it ?

A mechanical system or mechanical brain cannot generate abstract concepts , abstract approaches ...not in a conscious way .

Le's move back to consciousness thread , once again .

Deal ?

[dlorde]

I am not talking about that : what i mean is mainly : how can the mechanical brain give rise to abstract approaches  ?

What, precisely do you mean by 'abstract approaches' ?

A mechanical system or mechanical brain cannot generate abstract concepts , abstract approaches ...not in a conscious way .

What is the 'conscious way' of generating abstracts, and how do you know it's different from how a machine can do it?

Le's move back to consciousness thread , once again .

I never moved away from it. I posted there only yesterday.

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

I am not talking about that : what i mean is mainly : how can the mechanical brain give rise to abstract approaches  ?

What, precisely do you mean by 'abstract approaches' ?

A mechanical system or mechanical brain cannot generate abstract concepts , abstract approaches ...not in a conscious way .

What is the 'conscious way' of generating abstracts, and how do you know it's different from how a machine can do it?

Le's move back to consciousness thread , once again .

I never moved away from it. I posted there only yesterday.

[/quote]

Look , it would save our energy to just stick to one thread : the one about  consciousness .

I did reformulate my above mentioned question to you differently in that thread .
See ya there then .

Let's just "drop " this thread , and focuss only on that other one regarding consciousness.

Deal ?  Thanks .

[DonQuichotte (OP)]

This thread is closed = I will not respond to any posts here from now on .
Thanks .

[alancalverd]

I will take that as an acceptance of my arguments. Delighted to have been of help.

[dlorde]

I will take that as an acceptance of my arguments. Delighted to have been of help.

[cheryl j]

This thread = "the brain is more than biology."
 Question:  "Okay, what is the "more than part?" Answer: "I have no freaking idea or I won't tell you. Prove me wrong." Rinse, Repeat.