0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
I could be mistaken but, you remind me of a long absent member here at TNS. He went by the name of DonQuichotte if I remember correctly? Could I "thus" be right dear sir? :
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 04/10/2014 19:25:26Human Consciousness And The End of Materialism : http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/human-consciousness-and-the-end-of-2jszrulazj6wq-58/Well, well,.......look who's back! Is it Plato or Don.... these days? Doesn't really matter I suppose whether it's Plato or Don...., it's still all crap!!
Human Consciousness And The End of Materialism : http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/human-consciousness-and-the-end-of-2jszrulazj6wq-58/
Quote from: Ethos_ on 03/10/2014 20:13:00I could be mistaken but, you remind me of a long absent member here at TNS. He went by the name of DonQuichotte if I remember correctly? Could I "thus" be right dear sir? :I must say fellow members, did I call that one right or not?
You gotta come up with some serious arguments to disprove those non-materialist scientists , so .
You're not welcoming me back , Ethos ? Nevermind .How are you by the way ? Fine, i hope .
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 04/10/2014 20:41:26You're not welcoming me back , Ethos ? Nevermind .How are you by the way ? Fine, i hope .BTW, welcome back Don......., it's good to hear from you again.
Before we go any further someone needs to demonstrate that really are "many" scientists who believe that.They will also need to demonstrate that there is "an ever-increasing body of empirical findings in the domain of consciousness and spirituality".As far as I am aware there are precisely zero scientific findings in those fields.We still don't know what consciousness is and "spirituality" is not a subject open to scientific study (except, perhaps as a subset of psychology- why do people believe stuff for which there's no evidence?)So the second paragraph of this "manifesto" is manifestly bogus.This isn't a bombshell, it's not even a fart; it's just hype.
You haven't even looked at the overwhelming evidence that has been supporting some of the non-materialist theories of consciousness .How can you tell then ?
Mr.David Cooper : consciousness does collapse the wave function without any transfer of energy , so, the conservation of energy law is not violated , not to mention the fact that quantum theory has been showing that the universe is not causally closed ,as the classical determinist mechanical Newtonian world view made us believe it was .
Hi Don. How have you been? What have you been up to since January? I have all sorts of great books to recommend to you!
author=Bored chemist link=topic=52526.msg441733#msg441733 date=1412509118]OK, so I had a quick look at the "full text" cited in the OP.The second paragraph says" Many scientists believe a similar transition is currently required, because the materialistic focus that has dominated science in the modern era cannot account for an ever-increasing body of empirical findings in the domain of consciousness and spirituality"Before we go any further someone needs to demonstrate that really are "many" scientists who believe that.
They will also need to demonstrate that there is "an ever-increasing body of empirical findings in the domain of consciousness and spirituality".As far as I am aware there are precisely zero scientific findings in those fields.
We still don't know what consciousness is and "spirituality" is not a subject open to scientific study (except, perhaps as a subset of psychology- why do people believe stuff for which there's no evidence?)
So the second paragraph of this "manifesto" is manifestly bogus.
This isn't a bombshell, it's not even a fart; it's just hype.
Quoteauthor=Bored chemist link=topic=52526.msg441733#msg441733 date=1412509118]OK, so I had a quick look at the "full text" cited in the OP.The second paragraph says" Many scientists believe a similar transition is currently required, because the materialistic focus that has dominated science in the modern era cannot account for an ever-increasing body of empirical findings in the domain of consciousness and spirituality"Before we go any further someone needs to demonstrate that really are "many" scientists who believe that.Oh, yes , man : You have no idea , not even remotely close thus , needless to add thus : there is an increasing little army of scientists , philosophers ...who are firmly convinced of the urgent need of making science get rid of the materialist outdated dogmatic belief system that's still sutck within the classical determinist mechanical Newtonian world view , in order for science to progress beyond materialism , as there has been an overwhelming body of evidence supporting that view of those scientists , philsophers ...Just take a look at the other links on this thread's opening's article then ....for starters ....like this one :http://opensciences.org/videos/consciousness-studiesQuoteThey will also need to demonstrate that there is "an ever-increasing body of empirical findings in the domain of consciousness and spirituality".As far as I am aware there are precisely zero scientific findings in those fields.Check out those links on this thread , don't be lazy .Check out the publications , videos and more from the link below , to mention just this one : Your ignorance on the subject is no argument, on the contrary :http://opensciences.org/videosQuoteWe still don't know what consciousness is and "spirituality" is not a subject open to scientific study (except, perhaps as a subset of psychology- why do people believe stuff for which there's no evidence?)We still don't know nothing about neither the orign nor nature of consciousness indeed , but , we do know now that consciousness is non-local and non-physical and more .Spirituality is a "matter " of consciousness and world views ,so , if consciousness can be studied scientifically ,to some extent at least , why not spirituality ? Cognitive psychology, for example , has been delivering some revolutionary findings concerning human behavior, consciousness and more , and it relies mainly on the non-materialist interpretations of the recent scientific discoveries at the level of neuroscience + on quantum physics where consciousness plays a central role ...Cognitive psychology that does work (I have been applying it to myself and to my surroundings with relative amazing success ) and is consistent with both quantum physics and neuroscience thus .QuoteSo the second paragraph of this "manifesto" is manifestly bogus.Can you elaborate on that , please ? That's no answer , let alone an argument ,you know .QuoteThis isn't a bombshell, it's not even a fart; it's just hype.Can you elaborate on that , please ? That's no way of addressing the subject matter at hand , let alone that it is a scientific way to do that .Oh, man : that's a major nuclear lol bombshell , a major and unprecedented scientific revolution like no other , you have no idea .Ignorance is bliss indeed ...
author=David Cooper link=topic=52526.msg441742#msg441742 date=1412525094]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 04/10/2014 19:14:41Mr.David Cooper : consciousness does collapse the wave function without any transfer of energy , so, the conservation of energy law is not violated , not to mention the fact that quantum theory has been showing that the universe is not causally closed ,as the classical determinist mechanical Newtonian world view made us believe it was .You make it sound as if you're responding to something I said, but I've never discussed conservation of energy anywhere. As for the universe being or not being causally closed, the closest I've come to discussing that is in the distant past when discussing how a remote consciousness outside of the universe would have to interact mechanistically with the content of the universe in order to have any causal input, and that may well happen - we will find out some day when we can see all the detail of what goes on in the brain, but it's out of reach for now. The big problem for you is that there has to be a mechanical coupling between the remote consciousness and the mechanical brain, and that renders the entire process mechanical with part of it merely being outside the universe instead of inside it, which isn't much of a solution to the problem of understanding how sentience can interface with an information system. Everyone gets completely stuck at that point and no amount of voodoo has made this any easier - all it does is add obfuscation and enable people to claim that the explanation is in the added, magical mess, but that's a non-explanation because it completely ignores the crucial interface problem.
Out of interest, are we supposed to believe that you've been lurking and watching this forum all this time without posting to it, or that you're a friend of the OP and were brought back here by him? (That's assuming you aren't the OP, of course.)
For starters : consciousness is neither in the brain nor is it brain activity (That's just a materialist myth ) , so, neuroscience will never be able to explain consciousness , also because the physical brain is just a medium for consciousness, both ways , as a receiver and as a "generator " :
I have never looked back when i left this forum , to be honest . I went back to it for a couple of days afterwards , then , i moved on to explore other horizons and fields , just to come back again to share with you all what i have been stumbling upon so far ,and it is a lot = an understatement .