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  4. Is geoengineering destroying life?
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Is geoengineering destroying life?

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Offline the5thforce

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #20 on: 14/03/2016 00:45:13 »
would it be any worse than inhaling ash or fumes from burning organic material? probably not, but regardless this is why we need to invest heavily in health and medical technology so we can repair the people were inadvertently making sick, we also need to relentlessly stress physical fitness and nutrition so people's own biology/immune systems/brain have a fighting chance to counter this inevitable flood of pollution were creating

if the government views climate engineering to be a net benefit but with some obvious negative health effects, we should be pressuring government to be up front about it so we as individuals can atleast prepare our bodies for the abuse life throws at it, physiological health is very adaptable when properly trained just as psychological health is also very adaptable when properly educated, the mind and body are extraordinary resistance machines designed to be used and abused for our pleasure

i have a much bigger problem with the lazy big pharma industry scheming with the government to hold a monopoly on drugs via criminalization, if big pharma cannot create a superior product than nature then big pharma does not deserve our money, in reality the immensely talented opium farmers in afghanistan should be the ones paid the billions currently being extorted by the western pharmaceutical-law enforcement war machine
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #21 on: 14/03/2016 10:38:45 »
Quote from: the5thforce on 14/03/2016 00:45:13
would it be any worse than inhaling ash or fumes from burning organic material? probably not, but regardless this is why we need to invest heavily in health and medical technology so we can repair the people were inadvertently making sick, we also need to relentlessly stress physical fitness and nutrition so people's own biology/immune systems/brain have a fighting chance to counter this inevitable flood of pollution were creating

Inhaling fumes from smoking is a choice, but breathing fresh air is mandatory for living organisms. I think governments should not jeopardize public health for political reasons like global warming.

Quote
While academicians debate geoengineering as an activity that might potentially be needed in the future [2,3], evidence suggests that Western governments/militaries moved ahead with a full scale operational geoengineering program. But instead of mining and milling rock to produce artificial volcanic ash in sufficient volumes to cool the planet, they adopted a low-cost, pragmatic alternative, but one with consequences far more dire to life on Earth than global warming might ever be, and used coal combustion fly ash. To make matters worse, instead of placing the material high into the stratosphere, where there is minimal mixing and the substance might remain suspended for a year or more, they opted to spray coal fly ash into the lower atmosphere, the troposphere, which mixes with the air people breathe and gets rained down to ground.

====

Evidence of Coal-Fly-Ash Toxic Chemical Geoengineering in the Troposphere: Consequences for Public Health http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4555286/

NB: This paper has been retracted, but it remains highly informative. I guess research on the toxicity of geoengineering is controversial because of the pervasive nature of such activity on public health. In addition, identification of coal combustion fly ash as the primary particulate being released in the troposphere is a major scientific discovery!
« Last Edit: 14/03/2016 10:51:55 by tkadm30 »
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #22 on: 23/03/2016 11:50:50 »
Quote
The best indications are that the material used in the program is a white powder that comes dirt cheap to the government from the coal-burning utilities that produce millions of tons of coal fly ash every year. The official sun-enhancing and sun-altering pollution over Hamilton County is euphemistically called CCR, or combustion coal residual. It is toxic, and contains aluminum, arsenic and other pollutants, according to J. Marvin Herndon, a scientist in San Diego who does not rely on government funding for his research.

The TVA coal-fired plant at Gallatin produces 130,000 tons of coal waste daily. It is in the news this week for bringing on line its last of four selective catalytic reduction devices to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions in Middle Tennessee. TVA has spent three years and F$730 million on the project. Earlier scrubber projects have taken care of reducing fly ash emissions. Nearly half of fly ash production is recycled, with some evidently being purchased by government agents for the current stratospheric aerosol geoengineering program I have covered here since April 2014.

Notes:
- Barium titanate is produced from coal fly ash.
- Barium titanate appears to be a potassium channel blocker:

Quote
Barium is a competitive potassium channel antagonist that blocks the passive efflux of intracellular potassium, resulting in a shift of potassium from extracellular to intracellular compartments. The intracellular translocation of potassium results in a decreased resting membrane potential, making the muscle fibers electrically unexcitable and causing paralysis. Some of these barium's effects may also be due to barium induced neuromuscular blockade and membrane depolarization.

====

Geoengineering sky stripes threat to human health, study says - http://nooganomics.com/2016/02/geoengineering-sky-stripes-threat-to-human-health-study-says/

Assessing the direct occupational and public health impacts of solar radiation management with stratospheric aerosols - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4717532/

Barium titanate - http://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D1124
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #23 on: 27/03/2016 11:34:09 »
Coal fly ash (CFA) may contains traces of arsenic.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921344911000541

Arsenic is a compound commonly used in pesticides...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #24 on: 27/03/2016 12:28:10 »
Arsenic is a neurotoxicant. The biotoxicity of geoengineering is undeniable.

Quote
Arsenic toxicity is a worldwide health concern as several millions of people are exposed to this toxicant via drinking water, and exposure affects almost every organ system in the body including the brain. Recent studies have shown that even low concentrations of arsenic impair neurological function, particularly in children. This review will focus on the current epidemiological evidence of arsenic neurotoxicity in children and adults, with emphasis on cognitive dysfunction, including learning and memory deficits and mood disorders. We provide a cohesive synthesis of the animal studies that have focused on neural mechanisms of dysfunction after arsenic exposure including altered epigenetics; hippocampal function; glucocorticoid and hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) pathway signaling; glutamatergic, cholinergic and monoaminergic signaling; adult neurogenesis; and increased Alzheimer’s-associated pathologies. Finally, we briefly discuss new studies focusing on therapeutic strategies to combat arsenic toxicity including the use of selenium and zinc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4026128/
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Offline Tim the Plumber

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #25 on: 27/03/2016 12:51:50 »
I know that it is good to be tolleratnt to those who need education. I am often in that catagory. But since this is a science forum should it be a platform for the mad to polute our collective mean space with utter drivel?
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #26 on: 27/03/2016 13:35:58 »
Maybe you're just annoyed and uncomfortable with truth? Anyways, please don't blame the messenger, unless you appreciate trolling on science forums to affirm your definite ignorance...
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #27 on: 01/04/2016 19:24:42 »
Yet more evidences of the toxicity of geoengineering.

Dimethyl and monomethyl sulfate: presence in coal fly ash and airborne particulate matter.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7350652

Quote
Dimethyl sulfate is carcinogenic[7] and mutagenic, highly poisonous, corrosive, environmentally hazardous and volatile (presenting an inhalation hazard). It is considered a potential chemical weapon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfate#Safety
« Last Edit: 17/04/2016 13:43:21 by tkadm30 »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #28 on: 02/04/2016 01:28:38 »
Quote from: tkadm30 on 01/04/2016 19:24:42
Yet more evidences of the toxicity of geoengineering.

Dimethyl and monomethyl sulfate: presence in coal fly ash and airborne particulate matter.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7350652

Quote
Dimethyl sulfate is carcinogenic[7] and mutagenic, highly poisonous, corrosive, environmentally hazardous and volatile (presenting an inhalation hazard). It is considered a potential chemical weapon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfate#Safety
Ash and smoke always contained lots of nasty chemicals.
Do you think this was "geoengineering"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephenson%27s_Rocket

But that's not the real question; this is . If "They" are putting "poisons" in the air how come "They" are not being poisoned?
Or are you saying that they are going to a lot or trouble to poison themselves?

I don't think you have thought this through.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #29 on: 02/04/2016 01:31:57 »
Quote from: tkadm30 on 13/03/2016 22:40:29
I noticed that military planes sometimes release aerosols by doing a X-shape pattern in the sky. This always happens on clear and sunny days. Is there a logical explanation in doing a X-like motion to dissipate the aerosol

No.
There is no logical explanation for " doing a X-like motion to dissipate the aerosol" so they must be doing it for some other reason.
You seem to be arguing against yourself.
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #30 on: 02/04/2016 11:32:14 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/04/2016 01:28:38

But that's not the real question; this is . If "They" are putting "poisons" in the air how come "They" are not being poisoned?
Or are you saying that they are going to a lot or trouble to poison themselves?

This might be a case of suicidal ideation (lookup "democide"). By purposefully releasing toxic coal fly ash particles in the troposhere, the governments must be aware of the deleterious effects of such operations on public health.

Notice also that dimethyl sulfate is mutagenic and carcinogenic. This could means the method used for soft-killing humanity is through cancer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

I guess the real question should be why scientists and doctors are silent about the elite's depopulation plans.
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Offline RD

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #31 on: 02/04/2016 13:56:28 »
Quote from: tkadm30 on 02/04/2016 11:32:14
... the elite's depopulation plans.

That " they are trying to kill us"  message was brought to you by the Paranoia Party, ( a subsidiary of the "Cannabis cures everything*" group ). 

[ * except paranoia, which it causes ]
« Last Edit: 02/04/2016 14:04:37 by RD »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #32 on: 02/04/2016 14:39:21 »
Quote from: tkadm30 on 02/04/2016 11:32:14
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/04/2016 01:28:38

But that's not the real question; this is . If "They" are putting "poisons" in the air how come "They" are not being poisoned?
Or are you saying that they are going to a lot or trouble to poison themselves?

This might be a case of suicidal ideation (lookup "democide"). By purposefully releasing toxic coal fly ash particles in the troposhere, the governments must be aware of the deleterious effects of such operations on public health.

Notice also that dimethyl sulfate is mutagenic and carcinogenic. This could means the method used for soft-killing humanity is through cancer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen

I guess the real question should be why scientists and doctors are silent about the elite's depopulation plans.

Just for a start, dimethyl sulphate is not stable in the presence of water so it's not going to be a problem in rain.
"I guess the real question should be why scientists and doctors are silent about the elite's depopulation plans."

The real answer is that there are no such plans for doctors and scientists to say anything about.
(It's also just plain bloody stupid; without a population to exploit- they wouldn't stay "elite" for very long.)

What you seem to be saying is that the elite want to kill themselves- even though they are in a positions to enjoy themselves however they like.
Have you thought that through?
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #33 on: 05/04/2016 10:59:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/04/2016 14:39:21
Just for a start, dimethyl sulphate is not stable in the presence of water so it's not going to be a problem in rain.

Airborne particulates of dimethyl sulphate are a potential risk for the environment: Coal fly ash aerosols exposure may affect lung and brain function.

Quote from: Bored chemist
What you seem to be saying is that the elite want to kill themselves- even though they are in a positions to enjoy themselves however they like.
Have you thought that through?

One should probably not deny the weaponization of geoengineering: Coal fly ash particles are toxic for human health.
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guest39538

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #34 on: 05/04/2016 11:11:16 »
WE started to destroy the planet the very moment we started to extract oil, a thermal barrier removed .   For every mine we dig we create structural weakness in the planet,    for every fire we light we create change.


Is geo-engineering destroying life?   NO, life is destroying life by doing the geo-engineering.
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #35 on: 05/04/2016 11:23:37 »
Indeed. Human intelligence perhaps created this nefarious activity. However, we have the right to breath non-toxic air since breathing is part of human nature. Anyone who attempt to poison us by inducing a slow death is a dangerous criminal. Likewise, water is essential to life. The poisoning of air/water interface with toxic chemical weapons is a threat to humanity.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #36 on: 05/04/2016 20:48:40 »
Quote from: tkadm30 on 05/04/2016 10:59:04
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/04/2016 14:39:21
Just for a start, dimethyl sulphate is not stable in the presence of water so it's not going to be a problem in rain.

Airborne particulates of dimethyl sulphate are a potential risk for the environment: Coal fly ash aerosols exposure may affect lung and brain function.

Quote from: Bored chemist
What you seem to be saying is that the elite want to kill themselves- even though they are in a positions to enjoy themselves however they like.
Have you thought that through?

One should probably not deny the weaponization of geoengineering: Coal fly ash particles are toxic for human health.

"Airborne particulates of dimethyl sulphate are a potential risk for the environment:"
No.
Sulphate aerosols may well be a threat to the environment (ironically, they may be it's saviour- but let's not get into that here).
Dimethyl sulphate isn't stable in water- nothing you post here will change that will it?
So why not stop pretending?

"One should probably not deny the weaponization of geoengineering"
Why not?
There is no actual evidence that it's happening, so  why not deny it?
" Coal fly ash particles are toxic for human health."
Well, how fortunate that they get largely scrubbed out at the point of production and used to make cement etc.
As I asked (and you ignored), how do "they" stop themselves getting poisoned too?

It simply does not make sense.


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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #37 on: 05/04/2016 20:51:02 »
Quote from: tkadm30 on 05/04/2016 11:23:37
Indeed. Human intelligence perhaps created this nefarious activity. However, we have the right to breath non-toxic air since breathing is part of human nature. Anyone who attempt to poison us by inducing a slow death is a dangerous criminal. Likewise, water is essential to life. The poisoning of air/water interface with toxic chemical weapons is a threat to humanity.
Yes, all very nice, but, ever since we discovered fire, we have been doing all those things.
Do you really want to stop?
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #38 on: 06/04/2016 10:58:09 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 05/04/2016 20:48:40
"Airborne particulates of dimethyl sulphate are a potential risk for the environment:"
No.
Sulphate aerosols may well be a threat to the environment (ironically, they may be it's saviour- but let's not get into that here).
Dimethyl sulphate isn't stable in water- nothing you post here will change that will it?
So why not stop pretending?

Are you pretending Lee study is wrong?

Quote
Dimethyl sulfate and its hydrolysis product monomethyl sulfate have been found at concentrations as high as 830 parts per million in fly ash and in airborne particulate matter from coal combustion processes. This discovery poses a new environmental problem because of the mutagenic and carcinogenic properties of these compounds.

Coal fly ash is a neurotoxicant no matter the origins of the particulates...

Quote from: Bored chemist
"One should probably not deny the weaponization of geoengineering"
Why not?
There is no actual evidence that it's happening, so  why not deny it?

The evidences are in the composition of CFA nanoparticles. Sulfate aerosols
releases toxic nanoparticles that may trigger diseases (Alzheimer) and cause harmful effects.

Quote from: Bored chemist
As I asked (and you ignored), how do "they" stop themselves getting poisoned too?
Please don't ask silly questions. The governments obviously are aware of the toxicity and harmful effects of geoengineering.
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Offline smart (OP)

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Re: Is geoengineering destroying life?
« Reply #39 on: 06/04/2016 11:10:08 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 05/04/2016 20:51:02
Yes, all very nice, but, ever since we discovered fire, we have been doing all those things.
Do you really want to stop?

Scientific research should not be used against us... Otherwise what is the purpose of science
if it cannot protect us against tyranny?
 
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