[demografx]

I only assume that during the regeneration process, in some (maybe all?) the sperm is exposed. (Don't know why). Once the regeneration is terminated, it seems that the sperm is in a place, isolated from the cell mediated attack.

Hmmm, I still don't see why new sperm would be 'exposed' during the regeneration process, and only 'protected' once the process  finishes.

However, there could be other factors through which one could draw a connection to sperm regeneration--for instance, after an ejaculation, the body might produce certain "MAKE MORE SPERM" hormones.  And, the auto-immune response might not be in reaction to the new sperm (or even to the old sperm), but to those hormones.  And, once the new sperm have been formed, those hormones might turn off, and POIS would stop.  So, if there is faster regeneration, the hormones will get turned off sooner, and so POIS would be shorter.

In other words, we know that POIS occurs when semen/sperm is ejaculated.  But, the reaction might not be only to the semen/sperm itself, but also to other substances that are produced or turned on at the same time as ejaculation occurs. 

That is to say, we might want to focus not only or not primarily on the semen/sperm as a substance, but on the ejaculation and movement of semen/sperm as a process/event, which could involve many other chemical substances in addition to the sperm/semen.

Guthrie, I have said this before, but you have a good logical research mind.  Focusing on shutting down the entire process of spermatogenesis is a logical step.  As for the the skin prik tests, we have only had one successful test so far.  Besides, we do not know if injecting semen intradermally in to a normal person without pois will cause a reaction.  Sperm are not exact copies of the donor, they under go meiosis, not mitosis.  cells that under go meiosis only have one set of chromosomes and they are mixed and match around to cause variation.  So the body should recognize sperm cells as foreign invaders when they are injected into any ones skin.  Maybe there is someone here who is already on testosterone who might be willing to add progesterone for a month or two to see what happens when the body completely shuts down sperm production.  I do not think that it matters whether you are one of the people who believes Dr. Waldingers theory or if you are one who believes in something similar that involves sperm.  shutting down the entire process is going to tell us some important information.  For the people who are on testosterone right now, the cure could be at your fingertips.  High levels of testosterone shut down the production of sperm anyways, thats probably why you are feeling better. why not take the sperm shut down to 100% BY ADDING PROGESTERONE.

Laurac, I'd be willing if it's safe. I can see my endo asap. Which paper would you recommend that I show him?

[hurray]

My main disappointment with the experiments was that the non-POIS Os left me feeling fine in the short-term, but within 12-24 hours I would still be feeling intense sexual urges. Going 2-3 weeks without full ejaculation isn't easy  [] I had hoped that the Os with dry ejaculation would "reboot" my sexual urges, but it didn't work like this for me, sadly.

Interesting Hurray. The way you describe this, it seems the stored semen is what is causing sexual urge and tension. I always wanted to know that. I often feel that this tension is stimulating for me and this helps to cure my POIS after 2 weeks (or more) of abstinence. Perhaps with enough time this tension would be replaced by something better, more relax.

That is how it has always seemed instinctively to me (what causes the sexual urge). I always used to feel pretty crazy with tension after 2 weeks of abstinence (unable to focus on anything because of my sexual urges). The idea that your body eventually gets used to it is a very interesting one - I know that many on this forum have been able to abstain for very long periods of time, I would be interested to hear any information from them about how they have dealt with long-term abstinence, and how long it takes to become "bearable".

[hurray]

Very interesting!  So, even if silodosin was not fully a 'magic bullet' for you, it does seem to demonstrate that it is not orgasm, but fluid release, that causes POIS.

Since you've said:
Orgasm + no pre-ejaculate + no semen = zero symptoms.
And, orgasm + pre-ejaculate + no semen = only the symptoms that you'd have with pre-ejaculate leakage without orgasm.
That is to say, in both of these cases, the orgasm itself causes zero additional symptoms.

Thus, it really does seem like "movement of semen" is the main culprit.  And, for those of us who do not react to pre-ejaculate leakage, a 'dry' silodosin orgasm would mean: no symptoms!

So, even if silodosin is not the ultimate solution in terms of treatment of POIS, it seems like it has been very fruitful in contributing to our understanding of POIS.  Who would have thought that it would be possible to so easily test the effects of orgasm as distinguished from ejaculation? 

It also seems that this could provide a structure for a very easy research study for Dr. Waldinger or another researcher: he could simply have his 45 Dutch patients (or other POIS sufferers) take silodosin for three days, have a semen-less orgasm, and then report the effects.  (Or technically, for a double-blind survey, half the patients could be given silodosin, and half could be given a sugar pill.)  And, voila, another article can be published!

And, beyond just POIS, this could also contribute interesting findings to our understanding of the physiology of male sexuality on a broader level.

This is a superb idea, Guthrie. I would love to see the results of the hypothetical study that you have described. I agree entirely with the conclusions that you've reached.

[hurray]

I don't have the technical knowledge to contribute greatly to some of the above discussion, but it certainly seems like we are approaching a stage where a lot of what we know about POIS will become concrete fact rather than intelligent speculation. Thank you to all the posters above for a very enlightening discussion.

[horizon]

Has anyone heard of EIA, Exercise Induced Anaphylaxis?
it is people who are allergic to exercise.
Sounds similar to POIS.

http://www.thefamilygp.com/Allergic-to-exercise.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_anaphylaxis

[kristy]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

[Green]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

What are your test levels? I reached the end of my tether with the local NHS, my total testosterone was well under the reference range and my Bio-available test was 2.6-2.8 nmol/l with 2.5 nmol/l recognised, clinically as hypogonadism (with several tests), waiting for months on end for answers as to what they are willing to do for me, in the end I just gave up. The consultant was not even willing to discuss POIS and said the case reports don't suggest testosterone so it's a firm no. Very demoralising. Good luck with that.

[daveman]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

I'm begining the preparation of a WEB based database where we'll be able to go and enter or find such information. Should have a basic setup (no bells and whistles for now) in about a week.

[Habibou]

I already talked about this before but there's a new fact:
Concerning the positive skin prik test:
Semen contains prolactin.
Prolactin is highly related with the immune system, just google "prolactin immune system" or "prolactin autoimmune", there's a lot of results.

The immune system of POIS sufferers can eventually react to prolactin released at orgasm, and to prolactin in sperm during the skin prik test, I'm still wondering if this makes sense.

prolactin and immune system:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r420718v3u778361/

Abstract
We showed for the first time that prolactin stimulates the synthesis and release of immunomodulating cytokines and lymphocyte-activating factors (e.g., interleukin-1) by peritoneal macrophages. Prolactin abolished the stress-induced inhibition of proliferation of peripheral blood lymphocytes and increased cell sensitivity to regulatory effects of interleukin-1 in the reaction of lymphocyte blast transformation. These data illustrate the mechanism of immunoprotective activity of prolactin during stress

Your post made me think about, in the shower (where I have the clearest mind  []).This theory seems very interesting, according to me.
The prolactin is realized during and O, during sport, and during stress.It would be important to know if we create more prolactin whe we eat junk food (as many members stated that junk food made the symptoms worse).
It could explain why an O, a physical activity, stress and unhealthy food make our symptoms worse.
As the prolactin is created by the pituitary gland and realized into the blood system, it would be possible to cure this "prolactin allergy" by intralymphatic injections without a fear of an anaphylaxis!

But many members here don't have any symptoms during a POIS free period and can do sport normally.
Also, I don't understand is the recent hurray's results with the O without semence. Then the prolactin  realized in the brain during the O doesn't have any effect (no symptoms).There is no immun reaction, at least for him !

I will start tomorrow the silodosin treatment, under my doctor's advices of course, to see if it has the same consequeces as hurray. To be continued.

[kristy]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

What are your test levels? I reached the end of my tether with the local NHS, my total testosterone was well under the reference range and my Bio-available test was 2.6-2.8 nmol/l with 2.5 nmol/l recognised, clinically as hypogonadism (with several tests), waiting for months on end for answers as to what they are willing to do for me, in the end I just gave up. The consultant was not even willing to discuss POIS and said the case reports don't suggest testosterone so it's a firm no. Very demoralising. Good luck with that.

My Test results were borderline so my Doctor said no, not even a short trial to see if it made any difference.

I'm having an absolute nightmare with the NHS, of the three Doctors/consultants I've seen none of them would give POIS or Dr Waldingers reports the time of day. I've had loads of tests done and everythings came back clear so I would have thought they would at least look into it as a possibility.

I've e-mailed Dr David Goldmeier asking if he knows of any Doctors closer to me that are willing to actually listen as travelling down to London at the moment is'nt an option.

Also how many of us suffer from PE, if we are indeed allergic to our sperm would the body react by getting it out of your system as quickly as possible, just a thought.

[kristy]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

I'm begining the preparation of a WEB based database where we'll be able to go and enter or find such information. Should have a basic setup (no bells and whistles for now) in about a week.

Fantastic

[hurray]

But many members here don't have any symptoms during a POIS free period and can do sport normally.
Also, I don't understand is the recent hurray's results with the O without semence. Then the prolactin  realized in the brain during the O doesn't have any effect (no symptoms).There is no immun reaction, at least for him !

I will start tomorrow the silodosin treatment, under my doctor's advices of course, to see if it has the same consequeces as hurray. To be continued.

I smoke a cigarette whenever I have an O - nicotine stimulates dopamine, which inhibits prolactin. It probably doesn't have any real bearing on your point, but I thought I would throw that info into the mix in case it helps.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your silodosin treatment - good luck  []

[daveman]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

I'm begining the preparation of a WEB based database where we'll be able to go and enter or find such information. Should have a basic setup (no bells and whistles for now) in about a week.

Fantastic

I want to add that there is a database of labs and contacts for help with knowledge etc. I don't think it's exactly what you're looking for though.

Go see martin88's  http://pois.vndv.com/email_list.php

[horizon]

Somewhere in medical literature there must be a list of all the possible proteins/or agents in semen that we could be allergic to. There maybe 100s or less, but I think we should get the list, or compile it. what is in semen?

[demografx]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

I'm begining the preparation of a WEB based database where we'll be able to go and enter or find such information. Should have a basic setup (no bells and whistles for now) in about a week.

Fantastic

Yes it is! [] [] []

[demografx]

Has anyone heard of EIA, Exercise Induced Anaphylaxis?
it is people who are allergic to exercise.
Sounds similar to POIS.

http://www.thefamilygp.com/Allergic-to-exercise.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_anaphylaxis

I've struggled a lifetime of making sense of my exercise-induced depression (as well as POIS)! This paper helped me (and my healthcare skeptics) a lot:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/658747/my_experience_with_exerciseinduced.html

[demografx]

Somewhere in medical literature there must be a list of all the possible proteins/or agents in semen that we could be allergic to. There maybe 100s or less, but I think we should get the list, or compile it. what is in semen?

The components and contributions of semen are as follows:

Gland Approximate % Description

testes 2–5% Approximately 200- to 500-million spermatozoa (also called sperm or spermatozoans), produced in the testes, are released per ejaculation.

seminal vesicle 65–75% amino acids, citrate, enzymes, flavins, fructose (the main energy source of sperm cells, which rely entirely on sugars from the seminal plasma for energy), phosphorylcholine, prostaglandins (involved in suppressing an immune response by the female against the foreign semen), proteins, vitamin C

prostate 25–30% acid phosphatase, citric acid, fibrinolysin, prostate specific antigen, proteolytic enzymes, zinc (the zinc level is about 135±40 micrograms/ml for healthy men.[3] Zinc serves to help to stabilize the DNA-containing chromatin in the sperm cells. A zinc deficiency may result in lowered fertility because of increased sperm fragility. Zinc deficiency can also adversely affect spermatogenesis.)

bulbourethral glands < 1% galactose, mucus (serve to increase the mobility of sperm cells in the vagina and cervix by creating a less viscous channel for the sperm cells to swim through, and preventing their diffusion out of the semen. Contributes to the cohesive jelly-like texture of semen.), pre-ejaculate, sialic acid

A 1992 World Health Organization report described normal human semen as having a volume of 2 ml or greater, pH of 7.2 to 8.0, sperm concentration of 20×106 spermatozoa/ml or more, sperm count of 40×106 spermatozoa per ejaculate or more, and motility of 50% or more with forward progression (categories a and b) of 25% or more with rapid progression (category a) within 60 minutes of ejaculation.[4]

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen

[demografx]

Your post made me think about, in the shower (where I have the clearest mind  []).

Me, too.   GMTA!

(Great Minds Think Alike)

[Green]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a Doctor in the UK who would be willing to prescribe me Testosterone, also has anyone compiled a list of Doctors who recognise POIS or are at least willing to give it some credibility. 

What are your test levels? I reached the end of my tether with the local NHS, my total testosterone was well under the reference range and my Bio-available test was 2.6-2.8 nmol/l with 2.5 nmol/l recognised, clinically as hypogonadism (with several tests), waiting for months on end for answers as to what they are willing to do for me, in the end I just gave up. The consultant was not even willing to discuss POIS and said the case reports don't suggest testosterone so it's a firm no. Very demoralising. Good luck with that.

My Test results were borderline so my Doctor said no, not even a short trial to see if it made any difference.

I'm having an absolute nightmare with the NHS, of the three Doctors/consultants I've seen none of them would give POIS or Dr Waldingers reports the time of day. I've had loads of tests done and everythings came back clear so I would have thought they would at least look into it as a possibility.

I've e-mailed Dr David Goldmeier asking if he knows of any Doctors closer to me that are willing to actually listen as travelling down to London at the moment is'nt an option.

Also how many of us suffer from PE, if we are indeed allergic to our sperm would the body react by getting it out of your system as quickly as possible, just a thought.

If I remember reading correctly from an earlier post, you reside pretty close to me, I've also gone through a long list of doctors, it's possibly our are. Dr. Goldmeier is a solid prospect, as he's got quite a few POIS suffers going to him.

I've also got pretty severe PE, it's definitely not mental, for me I've narrowed it down to an irritated and inflamed prostate, for me after a long bout of abstinence, there is very little PE.

[Habibou]

Your post made me think about, in the shower (where I have the clearest mind  []).

Me, too.   GMTA!

(Great Minds Think Alike)

hahaha  [] that's totally true ^^ but you stay the master anyways !  []