Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline greengrass

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16250 on: 27/04/2012 10:33:35 »
Thank you for your information, badgerstripe.   Its greatly appreciated.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16251 on: 27/04/2012 22:47:10 »
Does anyone see a connection between niacin and testosterone?

They both work for some people, so I'm really curious if there is a similar physiological mechanism at work here?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16252 on: 28/04/2012 00:07:36 »
About niacin and testosterone, from what I've read from past posts it seems likely that both may have some connection to histamine whether it's to histamine levels, some effect on h-receptors, or on more complex histamine cycles and feedback loops.

It's also likely that both improve blood circulation and thus have an anti-inflammatory and improved overall healing effect.

I doubt that I have a vitamin b3 deficiency. I'm pretty sure the flush or some other effect of niacin is what improves my POIS.

I've been reading up on our posts about histamine and I've decided to buy Ranitidine, an h2 receptor antagonist, and try that out even though it's used to reduce stomach acid and not for allergies.

On the subject of stomachs I finally realized that honey was causing me stomach pain. During the time I was taking betaine hcl I was also taking honey, which leads me to believe it was the honey and not the betaine hcl that caused my stomach pain at the time. This leaves me confused as to whether the betaine hcl, the honey, or something else that was responsible for the temporary worsening of my symptoms. After taking the betaine hcl I believed that my stomach acid was too high, but now it seems more likely that my stomach acid is normal. After more time passes I'll be able to tell whether honey causes a worsening of my symptoms in addition to the stomach pain it oddly causes in me.

In reading past posts I've realized how helpful the new forum at poiscenter is since all I had to do was find one thread about histamine and just scroll down through it to find most of the info on histamine that I wanted. I know the thread on niacin holds even more information despite the fact that much of it is repetitive.

Edit- I've also been thinking more lately about an odd duality of my personal manifestation of POIS. The duality being that my high ejac rate and relatively severe symptoms are on one side and on the other side I appear to heal relatively fast (3-4 days) from my symptoms compared to many here (on the few occasions I have the willpower to abstain that long). I've thought for a while that high testosterone levels may be a cause of that duality for me. The other indicators of high testosterone for me include a number of factors. One being my thick and fast growing facial hair. The others being my high libido and high muscle to fat ratio. Since my current GP refuses to test my T levels I'll have to wait to find that out for sure.
« Last Edit: 28/04/2012 00:27:52 by Vincent Marcus »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16253 on: 28/04/2012 01:31:06 »

All of us can do plenty of damage by carelessly recommending a "cure" to anyone.

When trying out a POIS treatment, we must be extremely careful.

Because we are all different!

Please: any POIS medical treatment here should be CUSTOM tailored to YOUR BODY and YOUR medical history, and should be done under a good doctor's supervision!

Example: my own very successful POIS treatment could be a disaster for the "wrong" person, i.e., someone else.


And regarding your doctor, POISers need better-than-average help, because the condition is so unknown - and complex.

So find a better-than-average physician or medical practitioner to help you with your POIS!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16254 on: 28/04/2012 01:47:39 »

It's also likely that both [testosterone and niacin] improve blood circulation and thus have an anti-inflammatory and improved overall healing effect.


Thank you, Vincent Marcus!

I think testosterone's anti-inflammatory action is a BIG explanation of my POIS success.

"Improved overall healing effect" also happened to me, with a fairly immediate, noticeable and very pleasant lift in my mood!


Since my current GP refuses to test my T levels I'll have to wait to find that out for sure.


Get rid of him!!

Quick!!

Or give me his phone number and I'll tongue lash him! That is outrageous.

But...the same thing happened to me: they refused.

It's not my personality, I'm kinda reserved, but after 30+ years of POIS *H*E*L*L*... I DEMANDED that they (my GP + my urologist) test me and give me testosterone!

(A highly recommended Czech Republic sex researcher convinced me on the telephone in 2002 that testosterone was THE cure for my POIS.)

I was skeptical, but didn't have a better answer in 2002, so I GOT AGGRESSIVE with the docs (GP AND urologist). I made POIS sound like it was a mainstream ailment that these "country doctors" (I live in a big city : - ) needed to read up on!

It worked.

I finally got my testing...and Rx for daily testosterone patches (10mg Androderm).

This took a few years. My longwinded rambling posts tell the story. After a number of false starts with testosterone (it's not a simple thing) I'm now POIS-free for over 2 years.

I wish that for all of you.

I hate to say it, but WE MUST GET TOUGH WITH DOCS!
« Last Edit: 28/04/2012 02:09:40 by demografx »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16255 on: 28/04/2012 01:54:56 »
Since my current GP refuses to test my T levels I'll have to wait to find that out for sure.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests.htm
r u in us
you can do testosterone test with them with no need of doctor prescription. They send you their doctors prescription, you go to a questdiagnotics lab around you to do your test.
This is how i did my testosterone,couple of vitamins and catecholomine test.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16256 on: 28/04/2012 02:08:24 »
CC, do you feel these guys are as good as a local hospital lab?

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16257 on: 28/04/2012 04:08:42 »
CC, do you feel these guys are as good as a local hospital lab?

i cant really compare them to local hospital labs, Most private doctors use either quest or this other lab(forgot name). two biggest  labs in us.
lef is going send patient to quest.   
am going to say they are good because doctors use  them alot

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16258 on: 28/04/2012 04:14:02 »

It's also likely that both [testosterone and niacin] improve blood circulation and thus have an anti-inflammatory and improved overall healing effect.


Thank you, Vincent Marcus!

I think testosterone's anti-inflammatory action is a BIG explanation of my POIS success.

"Improved overall healing effect" also happened to me, with a fairly immediate, noticeable and very pleasant lift in my mood!


Since my current GP refuses to test my T levels I'll have to wait to find that out for sure.


Get rid of him!!

Quick!!

Or give me his phone number and I'll tongue lash him! That is outrageous.

But...the same thing happened to me: they refused.

It's not my personality, I'm kinda reserved, but after 30+ years of POIS *H*E*L*L*... I DEMANDED that they (my GP + my urologist) test me and give me testosterone!

(A highly recommended Czech Republic sex researcher convinced me on the telephone in 2002 that testosterone was THE cure for my POIS.)

I was skeptical, but didn't have a better answer in 2002, so I GOT AGGRESSIVE with the docs (GP AND urologist). I made POIS sound like it was a mainstream ailment that these "country doctors" (I live in a big city : - ) needed to read up on!

It worked.

I finally got my testing...and Rx for daily testosterone patches (10mg Androderm).

This took a few years. My longwinded rambling posts tell the story. After a number of false starts with testosterone (it's not a simple thing) I'm now POIS-free for over 2 years.

I wish that for all of you.

I hate to say it, but WE MUST GET TOUGH WITH DOCS!


Absolutely right on,Demo!!!

BIG RED FLAG when a doc refuses to perform a blood test that you feel is important.

Fire him, Vncent Marcus! Find someone else!  Word of mouth often helps -- just ask around for a GP who people like and trust.

He has his nerve refusing to test you! 

And he just lost a customer!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16259 on: 28/04/2012 04:40:52 »
THANK YOU STEF!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16260 on: 28/04/2012 04:48:59 »
Let's all forget about "making nice" to doctors.

More important is our POIS-free future!

So STEP on their toes. Your life is MORE important than their painful, stepped-on toes!!
« Last Edit: 28/04/2012 04:51:51 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16261 on: 28/04/2012 04:50:46 »
To set the record straight, I am no longer obnoxious with doctors.

I finally found a great endocrinologist and a teriffic GP.

Took a few years and a few firings, though!
« Last Edit: 28/04/2012 05:06:19 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16262 on: 28/04/2012 05:01:30 »
CC, do you feel these guys are as good as a local hospital lab?

i cant really compare them to local hospital labs, Most private doctors use either quest or this other lab(forgot name). two biggest  labs in us.
lef is going send patient to quest.   
am going to say they are good because doctors use  them alot


Thanks, CC!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16263 on: 28/04/2012 05:15:56 »
Great Job for the TV Documentary !!!

DO NOT HESITATE TO SHARE YOUR BLOOD TEST RESULTS ON THE OTHER FORUM : http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=98.0

It could help us to see some common disfunction... we could even split into sections (hormonal, immunology, vitamin and others) like a real database.
Of course, the most important stays the NORD fund !
Thank you !

Thank you very much Habibou. I dont have access right now to my blood test results, but i will post them when i get them.

Thank you for sharing that with us, Observer!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16264 on: 28/04/2012 05:26:55 »

According to the dailymail.co.uk, the Who recognizes adrenal fatigue as a real condition. But I don't find anything on the Who site.


B_Jim, my guess is that DailyMail.co.uk doesn't know what they're talking about : - )

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16265 on: 28/04/2012 07:32:59 »
Thank you, B_Jim, I am of course only guessing.

Nordnurse has given me some excellent input regarding this possibility.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16266 on: 28/04/2012 08:08:53 »

Im trying this and it's not working for me.

Really, Im feeling even worse.



This is a perfect example of the harm we can do by irresponsibly recommending a "cure" to anyone.


I did not recommend a "cure" to anyone.  Just stated what has been really helping me.  I guess I could agree with you if I had said to him "try this it is the cure" but I didn't say that.  I'm sorry if people misunderstood me.  Maybe I shouldn't even be defending myself as you're right, that could be the consequence of somebody recommending a cure.

Anyway Fidalgo and everybody else,  I've sinced stopped the Sea Salt and vitamin C since I ran out of vitamin C.  I am now taking nothing and surprisingly I am having very good sleep.  I am so exhausted right now and am sleeping very well.  So far I haven't had any orgasms but I will update in the future of the affects.  I actually feel better now than I was taking any vitamin C, claritin, or sea salt.  Sleep is like heaven to me, I haven't slept this well in quite a while.  Perhaps (in my previous posts), when my headache "left", POIS "left", but I will know soon.

I am not sure if it was the C and sea salt that has done this to me.  I am leaning toward the prolonged use of high doses of vitamin C that is making me currently immune to POIS, the sea salt and C I am not so sure about but it still was part of the equation and could have possibly played a role.  I will update in the future.

Anyways about the 2 weeks rule, yes I did wait 2 weeks, and even more than that, I've waited 2 months after taking high doses of vitamin C, and another 2 weeks while on the sea salt & C, I was just feeling so good that I had to say something.  I will update on my future O's
« Last Edit: 28/04/2012 08:10:53 by GoingCrazy »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16267 on: 28/04/2012 21:44:37 »

Im trying this and it's not working for me.

Really, Im feeling even worse.



This is a perfect example of the harm we can do by irresponsibly recommending a "cure" to anyone.


I did not recommend a "cure" to anyone.


No one accused you. 

All we're saying is: let's  A L L be EXTRA-sensitive when it comes to our fellow POISers, some of whom are desperate and will try ANYTHING! - even a lupus test lol.

So our POIS TREATMENT EXPERIMENTS language should be as "non-promotional", non-emotional as possible - not easy for anyone here who finally "finds" something that works. It's exciting!. But for our vulnerable, often silent readers we must be subtle, factual, scientific. As objective as possible.

GoingCrazy, your intentions are good. Thank you for your many contributions.



« Last Edit: 30/04/2012 18:31:29 by demografx »

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Offline observercenter

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16268 on: 29/04/2012 00:23:51 »
I want to share with the forum that there is a major newspaper interested in publishing a lenghty article/report about P.O.I.S. and the health journalists/a prominent doctor  have asked me for help. This could have wider and very positive repercussions. I will update shortly on this issue.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16269 on: 29/04/2012 01:40:21 »
observercenter, thank you for the wonderful news!
« Last Edit: 29/04/2012 02:48:10 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16270 on: 29/04/2012 02:36:59 »
Testosterone fertility risks

At the suggestion of forum members who wanted to know,  I once did a Sperm Count Analysis at a fertility lab.

My Sperm Count is zero.

I will never know if this is because of my high-dose/my choice TRT (testosterone) - my primary treatment for POIS - or something else.

I have two adult sons, so I was obviously fertile 30 years ago. And I don't plan to have more children - so it's ok now.

But if you're younger (most of you are), starting/expanding a family, fertility risk is something worth exploring if you are considering TRT as a possible POIS cure.



« Last Edit: 29/04/2012 02:58:19 by demografx »

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Offline Vasian1980

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16271 on: 29/04/2012 07:54:23 »
Do you have a white coating on the tongue and not a pleasant smell? Even if you have sweaty palms? We are constantly wet hands. Answer please.

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16272 on: 29/04/2012 08:01:21 »

Im trying this and it's not working for me.

Really, Im feeling even worse.



This is a perfect example of the harm we can do by irresponsibly recommending a "cure" to anyone.


I did not recommend a "cure" to anyone.  Just stated what has been really helping me.  I guess I could agree with you if I had said to him "try this it is the cure" but I didn't say that.  I'm sorry if people misunderstood me.  Maybe I shouldn't even be defending myself as you're right, that could be the consequence of somebody recommending a cure.

Anyway Fidalgo and everybody else,  I've sinced stopped the Sea Salt and vitamin C since I ran out of vitamin C.  I am now taking nothing and surprisingly I am having very good sleep.  I am so exhausted right now and am sleeping very well.  So far I haven't had any orgasms but I will update in the future of the affects.  I actually feel better now than I was taking any vitamin C, claritin, or sea salt.  Sleep is like heaven to me, I haven't slept this well in quite a while.  Perhaps (in my previous posts), when my headache "left", POIS "left", but I will know soon.

I am not sure if it was the C and sea salt that has done this to me.  I am leaning toward the prolonged use of high doses of vitamin C that is making me currently immune to POIS, the sea salt and C I am not so sure about but it still was part of the equation and could have possibly played a role.  I will update in the future.

Anyways about the 2 weeks rule, yes I did wait 2 weeks, and even more than that, I've waited 2 months after taking high doses of vitamin C, and another 2 weeks while on the sea salt & C, I was just feeling so good that I had to say something.  I will update on my future O's

I've been doing the Vit-C and sea salt routine for a bit over a week now and I think its helping me. Its certainly not a 'omg this is fantastic' outcome, but i've felt a bit better than normal. I should point out I started taking P-5-P two weeks prior, which is helping with my sleep/dreams as well.
Both the sea salt + high dose vit-c could easily play a part in any improvement, but it may not be the same for everyone as a number of us could have other concomitant health issues....for instance parasites or mineral deficiences which the salt will help with.
I actually took high dose (30-40gm) Vit-C injections years ago as part of the treatment to recover from CFS. In later years I have also taken the Myers cocktail when really run down (high dose Vit-C,  Vit-Bs, Ca, Mg, Zn) and felt wonderful on them, very diminished pois symptoms. The catch with continuing to take these injections....I had to go to a special clinic an hours drive away, expensive ($150/wk), and there is no residual benefit...within 3-4 days of stopping you feel the same as you did before taking them.
I didn't think GC was irresponsible at all. These substances are hardly risky, and for those of us who have had pois for years, feeling temporarily worse for trying a new 'prospective' treatment is better than not trying anything beyond abstinence. I think its wonderful whenever I read of someone getting an improvment when trying something new (that I've never tried), as it gives me hope, even if its short lived. People here know the posters here are not medical professionals (and even then with my experience of medicos over the years they are not experts when it comes to something that is not in their textbooks). Its up to the individuals to read up on any substance or discuss it with their doctor or continue ignore it and wait till there is an official treatment protocol.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16273 on: 29/04/2012 09:05:12 »
Thanks, acronym!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16274 on: 29/04/2012 09:15:42 »

People here know the posters here are not medical professionals.


The more active, astute ones do.

Sadly, there are desperate readers who will try - indiscriminately - any strong, lengthy, enthusiastic reporting about POIS experiments.

We have had members here who have been suicidal, extremely vulnerable and not thinking clearly.

We have a responsibility to them, too. I don't want to get a Private Message one day saying "Forum Member X is in the hospital (or dead) after trying what was very enthusiastically reported by Forum Member Y."

This could have happened with a member who had GREAT ideas (carried forward expertly now by Victor.kons). In this case, his enthusiasm for injectable XN went as far as publicly and privately offering to mail XN+hypodermic syringe to every member on the forum. Even me, who found a cure!

So...there is no way am I going to think, "Well, tough cookies, Forum Member X should have studied it better." Not if we inadvertently contributed to lead him astray!

We are not medical practitioners, true, but in the absence of true medical knowledge "out there" about POIS in MedicineLand...we're IT!

All I'm simply suggesting, acronym, is to let's keep these people in mind when posting experiments.
« Last Edit: 30/04/2012 18:29:49 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16275 on: 29/04/2012 09:40:39 »
Funny parallel: I myself followed the forum's strong - but theoretical - enthusiasm about progesterone (with testosterone) - called T/P.

I convinced my endocrinologist to let me try it, got the Rx, got sick and stopped taking it.

I'm lucky my reaction wasn't worse!
« Last Edit: 29/04/2012 09:48:46 by demografx »

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Offline manutao

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16276 on: 29/04/2012 14:46:31 »
Hey all, serious question.  I know for sure I get POIS symptoms when I masturbate and I thought it was ONLY that. As I mentioned before I'm 19 and most of my time spent when I was a younger was on masturbating and video games, I barely went out at all. Now It wasn't easy but I stopped masturbating all together and the positive changes on how I think and feel are amazing, I felt good. But just recently I visited my moms for the weekend and I got my symptoms back after 3 days of getting sucked into the beta for the upcoming game Diablo 3. Somewhere in all that time playing I felt a numbing sensation come over my head and it all came back, I'm fatigued, I can't think clearly no matter what, and I can't be socially active. I mean, last week at school I was the complete opposite, I was feeling confident with clear thoughts and I had a response to everything, made people laugh and even flirted. Now, all I could do the last 2 days was stay quiet, yawn, put my head down, and to talk as little as possible because my mind is off, the same feelings after I masturbate days before. This pisses me off because I'm avoiding masturbation for this sole reason and now I find out gaming gives it to me as well, I'm not sure what to do or how to explain this to people, If I tell a doctor she might misdiagnose me thinking its something else, I feel I brought this upon myself after abusing my mind and body so much from the late nights but will this be permanent? What can I do to stop this?
But my real question is, do any of you get symptoms that are similar to POIS symptoms from anything else other than orgasms or masturbating?

i have exactly the same reaction  :0 ..with the numbing sensation over the head after playing video games. symptoms after playing games are similar to the POIS symptoms. i also have it after eating junk food (pizza, fat meat)..or overeating in general and after listening to emotional (!) music. POIS symptoms fade away after a pronounced fasting period of minimum 14 hours. (garlic+fenugreek+intermittent fasting is my formula) i think that some of us have a really oversensitive, fragile dopaminergic system..and some dopaminergic stimulations (like orgasm, video game) leads to a total dopamine crash afterwards..therefore POIS symptoms are similar to symptoms of dopamine depletion.
« Last Edit: 29/04/2012 14:51:08 by manutao »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16277 on: 29/04/2012 16:58:49 »
Hey all, serious question.  I know for sure I get POIS symptoms when I masturbate and I thought it was ONLY that. As I mentioned before I'm 19 and most of my time spent when I was a younger was on masturbating and video games, I barely went out at all. Now It wasn't easy but I stopped masturbating all together and the positive changes on how I think and feel are amazing, I felt good. But just recently I visited my moms for the weekend and I got my symptoms back after 3 days of getting sucked into the beta for the upcoming game Diablo 3. Somewhere in all that time playing I felt a numbing sensation come over my head and it all came back, I'm fatigued, I can't think clearly no matter what, and I can't be socially active. I mean, last week at school I was the complete opposite, I was feeling confident with clear thoughts and I had a response to everything, made people laugh and even flirted. Now, all I could do the last 2 days was stay quiet, yawn, put my head down, and to talk as little as possible because my mind is off, the same feelings after I masturbate days before. This pisses me off because I'm avoiding masturbation for this sole reason and now I find out gaming gives it to me as well, I'm not sure what to do or how to explain this to people, If I tell a doctor she might misdiagnose me thinking its something else, I feel I brought this upon myself after abusing my mind and body so much from the late nights but will this be permanent? What can I do to stop this?
But my real question is, do any of you get symptoms that are similar to POIS symptoms from anything else other than orgasms or masturbating?

i have exactly the same reaction  :0 ..with the numbing sensation over the head after playing video games. symptoms after playing games are similar to the POIS symptoms. i also have it after eating junk food (pizza, fat meat)..or overeating in general and after listening to emotional (!) music. POIS symptoms fade away after a pronounced fasting period of minimum 14 hours. (garlic+fenugreek+intermittent fasting is my formula) i think that some of us have a really oversensitive, fragile dopaminergic system..and some dopaminergic stimulations (like orgasm, video game) leads to a total dopamine crash afterwards..therefore POIS symptoms are similar to symptoms of dopamine depletion.
One of the reasons why I wondered about taking L-Tyrosine. Under stress and catecholamine depletion it appears to enhance cognitive function. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1863555/. This is obtainable from health food shops as a powder or in foods such as milk, yoghurt and at its highest concentration in soy protein and spirulina. Eggs, whey and other body builders' favourites also contain high amounts of tyrosine.
It does appear that in its pure form it's most effective in increasing production of catecholamines.
One of the journal publications about military trials is available on mendeley at http://www.mendeley.com/research/tyrosine-potential-countermeasure-performance-decrement-military-sustained-operations/

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16278 on: 29/04/2012 17:23:32 »
Thanks, kurtosis!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16279 on: 29/04/2012 17:27:38 »
manutao, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!  We believe that 2012 is POIS' Breakthrough Year! We hope to launch serious POIS Medical Research! A great time to be here!


**(If you have any technical questions, please feel free to PM (private message) Daveman or me -- or another forum member - - go towards the end of this welcome message (after the 5 available research articles are described) for instuctions on how to send PM. We'll be happy to explain!)***


If you haven't already done so, but would like to like to join the new forum,  send "daveman" a PM here at the Naked Science Forum.


Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Click here to see Mat780's excellent YouTube POIS Channel!   Mat's YouTube videos include (1) our great new April 12 POIS TV Documentary! A must-see. And (2) The Learning Channel documentary, featuring our forum member "Animus"!

Click here to see The POIS reddit post!  Outsiders (non-POISers) spontaneously gifted NORD's POIS Research Grant $1,000+ from this reddit post. Thanks to "mellivora" and "CCconfucius"!!!

Our POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
Just click here first, and then look for "CHAT" button towards top of page, 4th button to your right!

Our alternate POIS Forum - architectural genius: "daveman" - for detailed subject-by-subject discussion!
http://www.POISCenter.com/forums/index.php
Our 5-year-old POIS thread here at Naked Science Forum will also always remain open for newcomers, for general unstructured discussion, and historical research of the 10,000+ postings here since 2007.

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g


Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome "POIS": Case report

Authors:
Abdalla M Attia*, Magda H Al-Ziny, Hossam A Yasien
*Corresponding author: Andrology Unit, Minoufiya University, Shibin El Kom, Eygpt

For more info, check out emi_b's  SMF POIS thread:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=191.0;topicseen


POIS Research Studies available Upon Request:

1. and 2. POIS Research Studies, 2011

These 2 papers reveal Dr. Waldinger's POIS autoimmune hypothesis and suggest one possible avenue of treatment.

3. First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD, Ph.D., and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

   
4. Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


5. British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


How to get any or all of the above 5 studies: send me or "daveman" a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and we'll send you back the PDF(s).

To send a Private Message, click on "My Messages" at the top of this page. Then click "Send Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN YOUR HEAD'! "





It can be very  helpful to you when dealing with medical professionals to point out the
POIS' official listing, as recognized by the
National Institutes for Health (NIH), Office of Rare Diseases Research
:


And in Europe: Orphanet now lists POIS on their website! - Click here!

POIS also appears in credible medical sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal (Dr. Selwyn Dexter's study), and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 5 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus our pages have been read nearly 2,000,000 times! Not bad for a rare malady!

Show some of this to your doctor - with pride! Chances are, YOU know FAR more about POIS than s/he does! Don't be intimidated by fancy diplomas. It's almost impossible for ANY one doctor to know much about POIS before you walk into his/her office. Unfortunately, it's up to YOU to educate THEM! And if you happen to find yourself with a disagreeable "student"-doctor (you're the teacher!), find another doctor. Quickly!

SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: more than 5 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.





« Last Edit: 30/04/2012 00:11:04 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16280 on: 29/04/2012 21:33:00 »

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16281 on: 30/04/2012 17:49:49 »
Great post, Demografx!!!

For those of you who have seen the movie, Network (came out several years ago) -- the following phrase became a mantra for many individuals who were disgusted with the negligent, disinterested treatment by the powers that be --

"I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

Let that be your mantra with doctors! 

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Offline Green

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16282 on: 30/04/2012 18:18:22 »
Hi guys, hope the individual battles with POIS is going well. I've not been active on the forum for quite some time, not disappeared, just lurking in the background as, generally I don't have much to say. Working towards delivering my pledge. A big shout out to Observercenter and Victor for being brave enough to go in front of the camera's!

I am under the care of a Liaison Psychiatrist, so far it's been the same old tale of differences of opinion between patient and doctor. My Psychiatrist will not deviate away from a psychosomatic diagnosis, although he acknowledges the symptom, he doesn't believe in POIS, subsequently he will only treat me with CBT, which I've had in the past with very little results /bah.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16283 on: 30/04/2012 18:39:07 »

My Psychiatrist will not deviate away from a psychosomatic diagnosis, although he acknowledges the symptom, he doesn't believe in POIS, subsequently he will only treat me with CBT, which I've had in the past with very little results /bah.


If you don't believe this yourself - please get rid of him!


Top 10 Reasons to Fire Your Doctor

http://arthritis.about.com/od/buildyourhealthcareteam/tp/fireyourdoctor.htm

« Last Edit: 30/04/2012 18:41:10 by demografx »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16284 on: 30/04/2012 20:31:26 »

My Psychiatrist will not deviate away from a psychosomatic diagnosis, although he acknowledges the symptom, he doesn't believe in POIS, subsequently he will only treat me with CBT, which I've had in the past with very little results /bah.


If you don't believe this yourself - please get rid of him!


Top 10 Reasons to Fire Your Doctor

http://arthritis.about.com/od/buildyourhealthcareteam/tp/fireyourdoctor.htm

Totally agree. Don't waste time and money on treatment that isn't working. As for Green's psychiatrist, what else is he going to say? To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. He probably has an elaborate justification for whatever psychosexual problems he believes Green has. There's little chance of overcoming the psychiatrists' diagnostic bias :)

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16285 on: 30/04/2012 21:15:14 »
"To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

WHAT A GREAT QUOTE, KURTOSIS!!!!!!  Thank you!

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16286 on: 01/05/2012 03:02:48 »
Thanks for the advice concerning my doctor. I agree that it was wrong of him to refuse me a testosterone test. I'll begin looking for another doctor, however I won't risk losing my current doctor completely as I currently need him for a medication that is somewhat difficult to get a script for.

Observer, great news about the newspaper.

Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16287 on: 01/05/2012 09:02:20 »
Thanks for the advice concerning my doctor. I agree that it was wrong of him to refuse me a testosterone test. I'll begin looking for another doctor, however I won't risk losing my current doctor completely as I currently need him for a medication that is somewhat difficult to get a script for.




Vincent Marcus, I'm happy to hear that!
« Last Edit: 01/05/2012 09:07:38 by demografx »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16288 on: 01/05/2012 09:03:59 »
"To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

WHAT A GREAT QUOTE, KURTOSIS!!!!!!  Thank you!
Wish I could claim it as my own.
Seriously though, there's a problem here for anybody looking to get their doctor to diagnose and treat POIS. If your general practitioner or primary physician rushes to send you to a psychiatrist then they're telling you that their working hypothesis is that your illness is psychological. The same happened to me and in retrospect I wished that I'd walked out and found another physician. The problem is that the DSM for generalised anxiety disorder manifesting suggests that psychosexual problems are a symptom. This is therefore an answer for your primary physician and the psychiatrist they referred you to. I don't think any of us believe it's the right answer but it lets the doctor off the hook and leads to long term psychiatric treatment such as anti-anxiety or anti-depression medication, CBT etc.
Some of this may be beneficial but has anybody been cured by treatment that assumes it's a psychological illness? Not me anyway.

I'm afraid until a physiological marker for POIS is found, the "all in your head" diagnosis will be the norm. This diagnosis leads to expensive drugs, expensive and time consuming CBT and diverts people from realising their illness has another cause.
I'm sure this problem has afflicted sufferers of other diseases NORD has researched so I'm wondering what the process is to "legitimise" a POIS diagnosis and how long it may take?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16289 on: 01/05/2012 09:06:29 »
Excellent analysis of our situation, kurtosis.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2012 09:24:52 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16290 on: 01/05/2012 09:22:56 »

Has anybody been cured by treatment that assumes it's a psychological illness?

Not me anyway.



Me neither.

And no one I've ever seen here at the forum since 2007 has ever cured POIS via psychotherapy/psychiatry!
« Last Edit: 01/05/2012 17:10:39 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16291 on: 01/05/2012 09:31:55 »
kurtosis, maybe my old method of being obnoxious with certain docs in order to get POIS attention...is still necessary with some doctors.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2012 09:35:22 by demografx »

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Offline Green

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16292 on: 01/05/2012 10:30:00 »
Thanks for the replies guys.

I have built up rapport with my Psychiatrist, he evasive around certain questions regarding POIS, and prefers to just put people like me in a basket along with other patients, where they have symptoms, gone through extensive diagnosis and no cause has been found therefore it's something that cannot be treated, and best managed with CBT. My opinions - IT DOESN'T WORK. POIS IS A REAL ILLNESS, as such Psychological support will only work with very limited effect, after all would you give a cancer patient Psychological treatment as a main cause of treatment, no. It's a shame in this day and age, that I have to self medicate. I have to remain with the Psychiatrist for the time being as atleast this way my thoughts and views and my ups and downs are noted fully in my medical history, should I need to fall back on it. I'm trying hard to maintain some sort of sex life, and a normal life, I'm not too far from there. If I can ejaculate once or twice a week and have a somewhat normal life, that's a cure for me :)

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Offline Hoping

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16293 on: 01/05/2012 15:49:11 »
I don't. This is an interesting point you raise, leo17.
POIS symptoms - for me - are extremely "unusual". Even the fatigue doesn't feel like normal fatigue, from say, exercise.

Ya It's like a mental fatigue, like a brain function just shuts off or is on standby until its gone.


Anything that give me a massive jolt of adrenaline with probably give me at least some minor pois symptoms

True, when I play online competitively and do really well I go nuts with excitement like the giants won the superbowl or something. Now I feel like crap, but even in my hardest workouts when I feel like dropping I never get this feeling. 

Leo17- it sounds like youve developed Constant Pois. I've had it now for about 6 months. Yes, it sucks. I would estimate about 5-10% of our members now fall into this category. For me, it didnt happen overnight, but rather over a 3-6 week period my regular pois deteriorated into it.   Im not sure what caused it, but one hypothesis of mine is that it corresponds with a slightly decreased libido. Im interested to hear if thats the case for u as well.  My recommendation is that u jot down all the details u can remember from that day and the couple days before it.  It might be a good list to look back upon one day.  Hopefully though, you snap back out of it soon. Please keep us posted of any progress.


I'm not sure if a blood test can confirm libido levels but my recent blood test came up good, everything was fine. I've been dealing with this since I was 14-15 and I didn't realize the problem until I did snap out of it and went back into it again at 18. I didn't know what was wrong with me and then I started looking for answers and POIS is the closest thing I found related to them. It's weird, the 2 things I pretty much mostly ever did (excessive gaming, masturbating) are the triggers that set these symptoms off.
Now I feel better than I did yesterday, but my thoughts still feel clouded and distant. Also when I"m laying down, or sitting down for about 20-30  minutes or more and I stand up, I get extremely lightheaded, dizzy and even my vision gets blurry for a few seconds. This only happens when I'm in POIS mode, has anyone else went through this?

This description is great (mental fatigue vs. physical fatigue). I also experience that dizziness when in POIS.
I'm not an avid gamer so I can't speak to that. I know that when I drink coffee is simulates POIS symptoms. Everything becomes inflamed, and it feels like my bones hurt to the touch. I become moody and depressed within about 12hrs of drinking it.

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Offline Green

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16294 on: 01/05/2012 16:14:01 »
Does anyone with POIS regularly drink alcohol? I don't like drinking at all, it stimulates POIS type symptoms.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16295 on: 01/05/2012 17:21:40 »
Green, in my life I've seen 3 similarities in my abnormal "hangovers" :

1. POIS

2. Drinking

3. Jet lag

In all 3 cases it's a prolonged (several days worth) and severe physiological reaction.

And it's a body reaction I can't explain, but maybe it stems from the same root cause.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2012 23:58:02 by demografx »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16296 on: 01/05/2012 19:12:51 »
Does anyone with POIS regularly drink alcohol? I don't like drinking at all, it stimulates POIS type symptoms.

Me neither. It leads to serious brain fog :)

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Offline observercenter

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16297 on: 01/05/2012 19:22:26 »
Does anyone with POIS regularly drink alcohol? I don't like drinking at all, it stimulates POIS type symptoms.

Me neither. It leads to serious brain fog :)

I realized long time ago that alcohol was one of the most serious POIS antagonists. Alcohol - while in POIS- doesnt lead to get drunk, it leads to be POIS-drunk, one of the worse feelings i have experienced!. I wonder if sugar content could play a role.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2012 19:37:43 by observercenter »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16298 on: 02/05/2012 01:19:40 »

Im trying this and it's not working for me.

Really, Im feeling even worse.



This is a perfect example of the harm we can do by irresponsibly recommending a "cure" to anyone.


I did not recommend a "cure" to anyone.  Just stated what has been really helping me.  I guess I could agree with you if I had said to him "try this it is the cure" but I didn't say that.  I'm sorry if people misunderstood me.  Maybe I shouldn't even be defending myself as you're right, that could be the consequence of somebody recommending a cure.

Anyway Fidalgo and everybody else,  I've sinced stopped the Sea Salt and vitamin C since I ran out of vitamin C.  I am now taking nothing and surprisingly I am having very good sleep.  I am so exhausted right now and am sleeping very well.  So far I haven't had any orgasms but I will update in the future of the affects.  I actually feel better now than I was taking any vitamin C, claritin, or sea salt.  Sleep is like heaven to me, I haven't slept this well in quite a while.  Perhaps (in my previous posts), when my headache "left", POIS "left", but I will know soon.

I am not sure if it was the C and sea salt that has done this to me.  I am leaning toward the prolonged use of high doses of vitamin C that is making me currently immune to POIS, the sea salt and C I am not so sure about but it still was part of the equation and could have possibly played a role.  I will update in the future.

Anyways about the 2 weeks rule, yes I did wait 2 weeks, and even more than that, I've waited 2 months after taking high doses of vitamin C, and another 2 weeks while on the sea salt & C, I was just feeling so good that I had to say something.  I will update on my future O's

I've been doing the Vit-C and sea salt routine for a bit over a week now and I think its helping me. Its certainly not a 'omg this is fantastic' outcome, but i've felt a bit better than normal. I should point out I started taking P-5-P two weeks prior, which is helping with my sleep/dreams as well.
Both the sea salt + high dose vit-c could easily play a part in any improvement, but it may not be the same for everyone as a number of us could have other concomitant health issues....for instance parasites or mineral deficiences which the salt will help with.
I actually took high dose (30-40gm) Vit-C injections years ago as part of the treatment to recover from CFS. In later years I have also taken the Myers cocktail when really run down (high dose Vit-C,  Vit-Bs, Ca, Mg, Zn) and felt wonderful on them, very diminished pois symptoms. The catch with continuing to take these injections....I had to go to a special clinic an hours drive away, expensive ($150/wk), and there is no residual benefit...within 3-4 days of stopping you feel the same as you did before taking them.
I didn't think GC was irresponsible at all. These substances are hardly risky, and for those of us who have had pois for years, feeling temporarily worse for trying a new 'prospective' treatment is better than not trying anything beyond abstinence. I think its wonderful whenever I read of someone getting an improvment when trying something new (that I've never tried), as it gives me hope, even if its short lived. People here know the posters here are not medical professionals (and even then with my experience of medicos over the years they are not experts when it comes to something that is not in their textbooks). Its up to the individuals to read up on any substance or discuss it with their doctor or continue ignore it and wait till there is an official treatment protocol.


That is how I felt once I first started taking vitamin C 1500 mg every day.  It wasn't the "cure" in the moment, but I believe it led me to something.  I'm still not taking any supplements and sleeping very well.  I just "O'd" about 15 minutes ago.  Currently I have no POIS symptoms, just calm, I will update as time goes on.  I still have not had any POIS after that "headache" went away.  Maybe it's the continued use of vitamin C, and than adding in the sea salt.  I gave, what did I say, about 2 1/2 months just vitamin C and than for about 2 weeks adding in the sea salt.  Claritin may or may not have played a role in it.  I took claritin for about 2 months when I started the vitamin C.  Part of why I am feeling really good is that I am also sleeping really well.  I also forgot to state that my acne did clear up when I was taking the sea salt and C... I have very mild acne, but noticed an improvement.

UPDATE:
  It's been a couple of hours since I've "O'd" 3 times and still no POIS, just calm and normal.  I, myself, actually believe I no longer have this... 100% honesty.  Normally, I would be in full blown POIS at most 30 minutes after "O".  It's just a miracle to me.  Believe me or not, this is how I feel.  I will make another update tomorrow about how i am feeling.
« Last Edit: 02/05/2012 04:38:52 by GoingCrazy »

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16299 on: 02/05/2012 03:13:29 »
Does anyone with POIS regularly drink alcohol? I don't like drinking at all, it stimulates POIS type symptoms.

If I have an ejaculation with 2 or more beers in me I won't feel POIS while I remain intoxicated. I haven't tested this more than a few times, but I also feel less POIS than normal after the intoxication wears off. In addition on the 5 or 6 occasions when I got drunk I always felt much better the next day, but I didn't ejaculate most of those times-although I am always in moderate POIS since I usually "o" at least once a night. I suspect this effect of alcohol may be due to my extreme social anxiety and also perhaps the fact that my physical POIS symptoms overshadow my cognitive ones. I remember reading about one study that said something like people who drank alcohol had less chance of developing rheumatoid arthritis.

Just found the link to the article which mentioned the study: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/07/27/drinking.rheumatoid.arthritis/index.html

The main thing I remembered from that article was how one of the rheumatologists in it said "Alcohol reduces immune activity, at least to some extent..."
I'm not sure if that is correct or not, but it makes some sense to me. It struck me since I had never drank any alcohol prior to developing POIS.

My opinion is that alcohol reduces inflammation, but from a brief google search I now see that may be an unpopular theory. I did find one study which showed evidence that moderate drinking reduces inflammation. It's an old study from 2002, but here's the link to the news article that discussed it: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-17-heart-attack_x.htm
« Last Edit: 02/05/2012 03:31:58 by Vincent Marcus »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.