Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline benvil

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18200 on: 22/05/2013 16:53:53 »
Hello guys. Is it worth trying the recipe kurtosis made? I've tried Niacin and it works for me but I still am damaged a lot from POIS. Can the "recipe" help this and what is your experience when trying it?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18201 on: 22/05/2013 22:49:00 »
Hello guys. Is it worth trying the recipe kurtosis made? I've tried Niacin and it works for me but I still am damaged a lot from POIS. Can the "recipe" help this and what is your experience when trying it?

A few others have seemed to have had some benefits from b-complex and the recipe. I took a highly bio-available b-complex for a while and had mild improvement in some physical pois symptoms. I think more of our members have had better improvements with fenugreek+garlic than b-complex.
« Last Edit: 22/05/2013 22:50:42 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18202 on: 23/05/2013 02:07:07 »
Hello guys. Is it worth trying the recipe kurtosis made? I've tried Niacin and it works for me but I still am damaged a lot from POIS. Can the "recipe" help this and what is your experience when trying it?

A genetic test, e.g. 23andme.com, will help you to identify which part of your pathways (methylation etc) may be inefficient. You can then adjust Kurtosis' regimen to fit your need.

I found his regime very helpful for me, with some small tweaks.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18203 on: 23/05/2013 11:20:23 »
I'm going to be in Paris from June 5th - 11th.  If any POISers are out there and would like to get together for a meal and share experiences, please send me a PM
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18204 on: 23/05/2013 11:35:03 »
Desperate, Some of the things youre saying resonate with my own experiences. For instance, i have weak adrenals. And, my blood-sugar is definitely tied to my pois. Even if im experiencing a fantastic day, and i go most the day without eating, my pois will come back, very strongly. I'll basically become a mute. And even if i eat a big meal, it's too late. My pois is there to stay. After times like these my pois will be bad another 2-4 days. Consequently, I never allow myself to get too hungry anymore.

 I'm not sure  I'm not sure whether morning Os or having an O on an empty stomach translate to worse pois, but ill try to pay attention to that in the future. Seems plausible.

Ive personally never had a negative sexual experience so i dont think ptsd plays a role w me.

My sodium is 138 within a 135 to 145 reference range, so low depending upon who u ask.

We speak the same language.Went 7 days abstaining now I had my tools in place.Took the most bioavailable forms of fat soluable vitamins,B complex with activated forms (methyls),took my liquid trace minerals,had enough protein and carbs for breakfast and got everything in place.Guess what?

POIS hit me really bad.My cognitive functions are non-existant.I work in free time for a friend's webpage as an administrator and forgot how to edit text messages (html).That's how bad I feel.
I'm unable to think,all my muscles are hurting but what hurts me the most is that I need to abstain for several days again to start feeling better and I can't tell anyone about this problem because they would ridicule me so I keep lying to people I've got blood sugar problems and they are already finding it strange that I go cheerful and happy for a while then suddenly feel like this with mood swings and personality change.
I live in a lie and have suicidal thoughts because of POIS.

Wish I could have spare 200-300$ so I could test this adrenal fatigue/Addison's theory by abstaining for certain period of time,doing 4-5x cortisol saliva testing on two days.Before and after masturbation.
I know this has to be one of the culprit or if not the root cause but key player that we get to feel this bad.
I would love to see how an orgasm affects a POIS sufferer's cortisol levels compared to non-problematic people...
« Last Edit: 23/05/2013 11:39:22 by desperate man »

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Offline benvil

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18205 on: 23/05/2013 12:36:36 »
Vincent M and Romies: Thanks for your answers!

Vincent: Those that have had a positive effect of fernugreek and garlic, do they take this everyday? I mean not just before O.

Romies: Can you tell me more about the genetic test and how I can decide through that?
« Last Edit: 23/05/2013 12:39:32 by benvil »

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Offline Kima

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Re: Post Orgasmic Болезни Дауна (POI)
« Reply #18206 on: 23/05/2013 12:54:36 »
Vincent M   Hi, what recipe fenugreek ?


thank you

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18207 on: 23/05/2013 18:05:16 »
benvil, for fenugreek+garlic most take it every day, but it is most helpful if taken at most an hour or 2 before "o". Myself and one other found that drinking some green tea with the fenugreek or soon after worked better than garlic.

Kima, fenugreek is just crushed seeds from the plant(also known as methi seeds) - it's not a recipe. I'll copy my exact procedure from my treatment summary.
Fenugreek(crushed seeds)+Garlic/Tea: For fenugreek I take three 620mg fenugreek capsules every morning with tea to further help me reduce the POIS inflammation from the orgasm I usually have every night. Taking the fenugreek with tea or garlic seems to be the only way fenugreek really works. Drinking green or black tea right after taking the herb also gives me increased energy throughout the day. I take the fenugreek in the morning, because if I take it at night I won't be able to fall asleep due to the energy enhancement it gives me. This has been reliably improving my symptoms for over a year. I've recently ordered 1 pound of crushed fenugreek seeds to save money and have been taking about 1/4 of a teaspoon with green tea every morning. Seems to work just as well as the capsules. It has a beneficial effect on both my cognitive and physical symptoms.
« Last Edit: 23/05/2013 19:15:06 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline benvil

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18208 on: 23/05/2013 21:54:13 »
Thanks Vincent. Do you know of any site that can ship fenugreek to Sweden? :o I don't seem to find any.

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18209 on: 23/05/2013 22:02:45 »
I'm going to be in Paris from June 5th - 11th.  If any POISers are out there and would like to get together for a meal and share experiences, please send me a PM
if I were going to be there during that time (won't be sadly) I'd be one of the 1st poisers to volunteer to share my experiences with you, heck yeah. beautiful city btw

speaking of the garlic remedy, I can't stand eating the raw cloves (makes me feel very sick), but I don't really mind the minced kind. garlic really seems to help a little for my cognitive problem. also drink the fenugreek tea and enjoy it very much (b4 I tried it I was skeptical that I'd like the taste, but it's not bad at all and the warmth of the tea and the cup are nice too. it's like a mini campfire in my hands).

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18210 on: 23/05/2013 23:13:34 »
Could anyone of you who are experiencing relief from taking niacin be so kind to post your homocysteine level lab results?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18211 on: 24/05/2013 06:31:11 »
Thanks Vincent. Do you know of any site that can ship fenugreek to Sweden? :o I don't seem to find any.

Nope I can't help you there, my friend. Sorry. Maybe someone else here might know?

Edit- I assume you've tried Amazon, right? I found this site that says they'll help ship items from the U.S. to other countries, but idk if it's legit or not: http://www.shipito.com/usa-address-mail-forwarding
« Last Edit: 24/05/2013 07:22:40 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18212 on: 24/05/2013 06:42:23 »

speaking of the garlic remedy, I can't stand eating the raw cloves (makes me feel very sick), but I don't really mind the minced kind. garlic really seems to help a little for my cognitive problem. also drink the fenugreek tea and enjoy it very much (b4 I tried it I was skeptical that I'd like the taste, but it's not bad at all and the warmth of the tea and the cup are nice too. it's like a mini campfire in my hands).

Just to be clear the fenugreek tea decreases your pois symptoms, right? I made a sort of summary today of all of our fenugreek trials so I want to be extra sure. Also you're welcome for giving you the idea lol, although it was hurray who initially thought to try fenugreek so I'd have to give the credit to him.

The summary I made is at this link if anyone wants to take a look. So far it seems we have at least 11 to 14 members who had definite beneficial effects from fenugreek:

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1057.msg9548#msg9548
« Last Edit: 24/05/2013 06:58:09 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18213 on: 24/05/2013 07:32:07 »
very good summary! and yes, the fenugreek tea decreases my symptoms. I think the visceral experience (so relaxing/warm) plays a big role, but it's probably also from the fenugreek itself (ps: I also have the fenugreek 610mg capsules and I take them once in a while too). I did get the idea from you a while back while I was a silent reader, thanks a lot! :D

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18214 on: 24/05/2013 07:52:42 »
Thanks Prancer. Glad my constant advertisement of fenugreek paid off.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18215 on: 24/05/2013 11:34:01 »
zinc  and copper    control   gaba and  acethylcholinesterase/    There are no mutations, there is simply deficiencies.  You have to stay away from sex and  replenish   these metals,   including  iron manganese  copper and zinc , and all your enzymes will  work again.  Zinc increases gaba , lowers  acethylcholine for instance , if you have that imbalance/  POIS is caused by inflammation from  low testosterone levels, since  your horomones are not balanced.

Any ideas how to stop nocturnal emissions? I am having NE 4 times every week, even after quiting masturbation, no porn, no sex, it is impossible to stay POIS free for more than a couple of days.

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Offline fidalgo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18216 on: 24/05/2013 16:28:59 »
zinc  and copper    control   gaba and  acethylcholinesterase/    There are no mutations, there is simply deficiencies.  You have to stay away from sex and  replenish   these metals,   including  iron manganese  copper and zinc , and all your enzymes will  work again.  Zinc increases gaba , lowers  acethylcholine for instance , if you have that imbalance/  POIS is caused by inflammation from  low testosterone levels, since  your horomones are not balanced.

Any ideas how to stop nocturnal emissions? I am having NE 4 times every week, even after quiting masturbation, no porn, no sex, it is impossible to stay POIS free for more than a couple of days.

Doing sports usually helps...

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Offline poisperson

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18217 on: 24/05/2013 16:52:24 »
Fronicationdenied - try cutting out alcohol, at least near bedtime...that's the only thing I can think of.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18218 on: 25/05/2013 14:10:20 »
Desperate, per your suggestion, I've eaten a full balanced meal, either just before or just after my last 3 Os.  The result is that my pois didn't hit me as hard as usual.  Perhaps you've identified another small piece to the puzzle? 
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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johanstefansson

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18219 on: 25/05/2013 16:08:16 »
Any ideas how to stop nocturnal emissions? I am having NE 4 times every week, even after quiting masturbation, no porn, no sex, it is impossible to stay POIS free for more than a couple of days.

I would say that my thoughts right before I go to sleep does a lot. If I think about sex, pretty ladies etc then odds are quite higher i get a NE.

This week I have had two NE. I keep a record of my NE to do my own little statistics, every one here should do it too. I keep record of: NE,breakfast,lunch,dinner,relax,exercise,sleeping hours and its quality among other things.

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johanstefansson

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18220 on: 25/05/2013 16:14:06 »
I have only tried Niacin (250 mg) 5 different times, should I take it on a regular basis?

Earlier I tried Nicotinamid, does not give the flush effect.
« Last Edit: 25/05/2013 16:17:38 by johanstefansson »

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18221 on: 26/05/2013 00:13:29 »
I have only tried Niacin (250 mg) 5 different times, should I take it on a regular basis?

Earlier I tried Nicotinamid, does not give the flush effect.

Most have only had beneficial effects with nicotinic acid(flushing version of niacin) taken only before orgasm and only if they have a flush. However, some have experienced improved symptoms with regular use of nicotinamide/niacinamide. We have reason to suspect that daily dosing of nicotinamide would make it more difficult to flush with nicotinic acid.
« Last Edit: 26/05/2013 00:16:06 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline questforlife

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18222 on: 26/05/2013 23:24:46 »
ok this post might make me very unpopular with certain people.

This is my belief - its just an opinion so please do not take this as an attack on everyones hard work and research concerning POIS

POIS is a series of symptoms - its not a specific illness that has unique characteristics such as Diabetes or Heart Disease.  It is a term thats symptoms are as broad as IBS.

It is clear our systems are out of balance. The more you understand about our system the more you will realise how complex it is and how difficult rebalancing can be. 

If you consider a person with a blood sugar imbalance going for a run.  The symptoms they might experience after the run could be light headiness, migraine, possibly fainting amongst other symptoms.  The issue is that for some people, they could be hypoglycaemic or hyperglycaemic, suffer from insulin resistance etc.  Because we know more about this illness, we know there are people at opposite ends of spectrum where they require different treatment for the underlying cause that all sites under the umbrella of Blood sugar Imbalance.

The trouble with the threads on POIS, is that going back to the IBS labelling, its not very helpful in putting yourself into a relevant sub label under the POIS umbrella. If you consider other illnesses that are a result of a unbalanced system, depression, autism, adhd, allergies etc again these just labels that have several sub-labels underneath them which require every different treatments.

My point of all this, maybe if we concentrate more on understanding the whole system we might understand more about how ejaculating can take an unbalanced system even more out of sync.  The answer will not come from shooting in the dark taking different supplements and analysing how they might temporarily effect us.  The trouble with supplements is that your trying to balance a puzzle with multiple see saws which can become an near impossible task not to mention expensive.  Even worse you take your system even further out of balance with this approach. When you add one supplement you take something else out of balance.  This explains why sometimes you initially experience a temporary positive effect because you cause a shift in balance within your system.

Personally, I think our approach needs to change and we need to start seeing ourselves as unique puzzles with some very basic common grounds.  The only way you will understand what puzzle you are dealing with is by having tests to understand what the rules are specific to you.

Tests which establish the rules of our own puzzles:
1. Parasites and bacteria lelvels
2. Organ functioning - kidneys, liver, gall bladder, pancreas
3. Neurotransmitter levels - Serotonin, Dopamine, Noradrenaline, Cholinergic
4. Intestinal function
5. Methylation and Sulphation metabolic pathways
6. Hormone levels of Testosterone, Estrogen, Cortisol, Prolactin
There are more obviously but these are the ones in my opinion are a good starting point to give a general overview.  Ultimately we are an algorithm of chemicals, and solution rests in finding out what the question is first.

Perhaps the tests are best done when you have taken your system completely out of balance with multiple emissions.

I think POIS is part of a bigger picture and it just so happens as ejaculation takes our system even further out of balance.  Much like a diabetic drinking several cans of sugary drinks.  We do not call this Post Sugar Illness Syndrome.  The illness label that is more helpful is one that is more closely related to the cause rather than the effect.

The trouble with us trying to understand our own puzzles is that we trying to find the answers in other peoples puzzles.  This will take us off our own track more often than not and is seen as a distraction.  Also a lot of us are firing at the hip taking supplements in hope of the magic bullet by chasing the symptoms.

My opinion is that we need to start with diagnostics - much like a mechanic will run on a car before they tell you whats wrong with it so you know how to fix it. 

So what gives me the right to inform others of my beliefs.  Well I think I am in a good position because my POIS symptoms have 95% disappeared. They haven't disappeared by chance, but because I have changed my approach. Take it from some who once spent thousands of hours and £ on supplements and treatments.  In my life I have often found the right way after exhausting every other wrong way, the trouble with that is it turns the problem into a preoccupation that takes over your life for longer than it should.

Anyway, this all just my opinion in hope to change peoples perceptive a little ...if needed  :)

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Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18223 on: 27/05/2013 05:58:14 »
so how excatly you reduced your symptoms?

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18224 on: 27/05/2013 13:27:45 »
Over my last 2+ years on the forum, I've seen a few really superb, inspiring posts from mellivora, willem, and some others.  I put questforlife's recent post up there in the same category.

Simply put, I agree.  There may be a few of us that fall into the "allergy" category and are effectively cured from niacin or SCIT.  But besides those few, nobody else has followed a single treatment strategy and been cured.  We've taken garlic or fenugreek or b vitamins or protein and felt better for a short period of time, but nothing seems to stick.  Like many others, I've also spent thousands of dollars and have a supplement cabinet that'd rival most pharmacies.  But with a systemic issue such as ours, this is clearly not the right solution.  If it were, we'd have found it already. 

As Quest put it, we're all out of balance.  This is obvious to those of us, myself included, who have "constant pois"  i.e. you feel crummy all the time and Os just exacerbate our symptoms.  Thus, our goal should be to balance ourselves.  Balance might require more sleep, less stress, more of certain minerals, a change in diet, or a combination of all those things.  Doing the "pois thing" of swallowing 1 of every pill in your vitamin cabinet immediately following an O will never help.         

All that said, while I agree with the post in theory, I struggle with how to act upon it.  As we all know know, most of our blood tests don't reveal any significant problems.  And while taking more comprehensive tests, like neurotransmitter tests, will highlight issues such as low neurotransmitter activity, it often doesn't help lead to any helpful treatments.  Quest, if you have certain examples of how diagnostic testing has helped you identify treatment options, I think that'd be helpful to us.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18225 on: 27/05/2013 14:16:01 »
It would be more interesting if one brings his own experience, the issues he worked on, how he did it, the progresses and the failures.
These are the posts that I find most interesting here, and from which I got some fresh ideas.
I think the fact that POIS isn't a specific sickness to be cured by a magic pill but an aspect of a more complex neuro-endocrine-immunologic imbalance is mostly agreed and almost obvious at this point (at least to me), as well as the fact that the particular imbalance to be addressed can be different for everyone.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18226 on: 27/05/2013 14:26:16 »
Questforlife,

I have been  saying the same thing for quite a long time.   There are a few problems  people have with this approach.
1)  no money,  since   testing is quite expensive.
2)  no one   to balance  you
3)   no knowledge  what to  look for.
 
That is why I offered  the metabolic system . The easier  and cheaper version. 7-9 tests only.. Or a hairtests which  at 150 bucks will show you  1500 dollar blood problems.

Acethylcholine to gaba  and acethylcholine to  dopamine  mostly the end  result of POIS... actual  problems with ejaculation.     Controliing those will buy you time  to solve   other imbalances that lead to them...Which are  adrenal and thyroid   issues/

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Offline Kima

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18228 on: 27/05/2013 20:33:54 »
This might seem sort of trivial, but one thing that I strongly believe can help reduce some of the general stress caused by POIS is a pet: a POIS pet! So my gf and I have a dog that we adopted a few years ago, and playing fetch and/or caring for her (the dog) relieves some of my stress, and therefore some of my POIS symptoms. I've also read of many different studies that say pets reduce blood pressure, depression and stress levels. So if you're like me and really enjoy dogs, cats or other animals, I recommend considering adopting something if you can. (Hyper animals like chihuahuas might actually cause stress, so it's probably best to think of a more docile animal such as a yellow lab or golden retriever or something.)

Have a great three-day weekend everyone!

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18229 on: 27/05/2013 20:49:46 »
I have discovered similarities of my personality with  social anxiety disorder , wich is related to low dopamine, high serotonin, and norepinephrine and glutamate, which may be over-active in social anxiety disorder, and the inhibitory transmitter GABA, which may be under-active. This was and is always the case with me, regardless of POIS or not. Also, ejaculation stimulates more wet dream frequency. Supposedly, abnormal wet dreams generally have nothing to do with seminal production. They are a direct result of a sympathetic nervous response to the induced inflammatory hormone prostaglandin E2 and cortisol production during sleeping, while at the same time beta-endorphin, serotonin, and GABA nervous control fails to calm down prostates nervous ejaculation response to the excitation of prostaglandin E2 and Cortisol. I have low testosterone 95.02 ng/ml) and transdermal testosterone alliveates POIS more than other supplements. Niacin, wich supposedly inhibits the destruction of acetylcholine, so far never helps me (atleast in a noticable way).
It seems semen does deplete key minerals like zinc and magnesium. Zinc works hand in hand with vitamin B6 to manage metabolic processes and to lower prolactin levels. Prolactin increases after orgasm and reduces dopamine and testosterone wich seems to make sense. Maybe Crohn disease and the high soy protein intake (soy protein reduces zinc levels http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3559747) I used to have (8 ensure drinks every day to supplement nutrition) may be the culprit. 

I have though up a plan to reduce wet dreams, applying lidocaine to the perineum and DMSO to increase lidocaine eficciency.

I am lost on how to obtain evidence of high an Acethylcholine/gaba zinc deficiency theory etc. with tests (no hair testing, please)?
 

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18230 on: 28/05/2013 12:09:22 »
Hi, from the god sake POIS not bounce back even after one and half month and having an avg of three o's in a week. 
Today visited the doctor for further appointment had a discussion for 2 hours and I would like to explain the discussion as per with my doctor. 

In the earlier post, I posted only there was only numerological imbalance in me due to over masturbation resulted in POIS.  Today I asked in depth.  As per doctor for me, there was a over stimulation of acetylcholine parasympathetic nervous system.  Due to there was a imbalance in CNS and over production of acetycholine leading to imbalance in brain chemistry.  Further, there was also imbalance in digestive system and function of liver.  That's why he has prescribed me four different varieties (one for CNS, one for digestion, one for parasite and another for stress and another for increasing vitamin C i.e. amla juice) and also suggested to follow one diet system for one month so that brain chemeistry should be normal. 

After following the medicine and diet, brain chemistry i.e. ratio of various hormones and CNS came normal.  He warned if any time continues Over masturbation for one month, again POIS will come.   

To confirm this, pl check google for symtoms of over stimulation of acetylcholine parasympathetic nervous system and also for symtoms of high acetycholine.  Also for masturbation and acetycholine parasympathetic nervous system.

Also I found one of the symtoms of high acetycholine is flu like symtoms that we have in POIS. 

Further he also mentioned that there is no medicine to restore this in allopathy medicine.  for this the only solution through herbal.

Problem is symtoms of excess or deficience acetilcholine or pretty much the same ; My doc prescribed me two drugs to try : it's deanol and sulbutiamine ; they apparently both stimulates cholinergic activity ; As I fell like sh1t anyways, i'll give a try...i should be fixed about wich side I am.

I tried cholinergic smart drugs yesterday and felt very bad within 2 hours....Piracetam, wich apparently is choline antagonist helps me.

http://mindrenewal.us/page13.html

From what I see, there is a convergence between different POIS explanation ; Most of us now agreed that POIS is a systemic problem and that sexual arousal and moreover O worsen the problem.
I'm quite interested in the Nathan's doc and Herman's theory since it fits to a  lot of literature about metal unbalance leading to quite a lot of other unbalances.
Zinc/copper ratio is surely something to investigate ; it's pretty sure that an overload of copper can lead to serious problem without necessarly being Wilson Syndroms. One person's came here some month ago claiming that he got cured with pyroluria treatment wich is Zinc+B6 megadose.The testimony of Nathans need to be taken into consideration since three times before he admit  POIS came back after he claims weeks before to be cured.
I dont' know what is the root cause of all this but mineral/metal could be a good culprit; Get infos, when imbalanced, they can really make a big mess in the system. I also would like to understand what role plays Nsaids in all that ; it's like they break the chain effect of POIS really soon ; unfortunatly, it's temporary.
I would like to start taking zinc complements but i'm afraid i'm wrong and it will make me feel worse.
Anyone tried zinc for a long time and got better ? Apparently, before being better by taking zinc, you need to evacuate the copper exces through your body and for a temporary period, you fell really bad.

 

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18231 on: 28/05/2013 13:14:42 »
LAPOISSE,

there is 2 setups with   high  NA/K ratio  and low Na/K ratio....If you are with low  NA/K ratio  , zinc will kill you.

you need zinc with both  ratios, but  when ratio is low , you need to feed it with  something that  supports sodium/   like manganese for instance/   Easy to check where you are, do the  blood test,  estradiol and progesterone...  estradiol is sodium and  progesterone is pottasium. 


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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18233 on: 28/05/2013 20:21:01 »
Kima, what are your POIS symptoms? Have you found any treatments that helped you?
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline questforlife

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18234 on: 29/05/2013 01:25:23 »
I appreciate from my last post a lot of people might have read it and thought, well a lot of this seems obvious.  Take me back 5-6 years ago and it would not have sounded obvious to me as I was certainly on the wrong path.  As i said before, we are all unique and we  all have different chemical algorithms that need solving.  That said there are some common grounds we all have and some misconceptions.  All of whats written below is just the things i found out along the way that required some big lifestyle changes.  Everything that has worked for me was quite the opposite of a magic bullet that showed dramatic results over night or over even a week.  Everything that worked forced me to keep faith and keep patience.  If you know all of this or thinks its irrelevant then dismiss it.  I was asked what had helped me to make the recovery I've made and this was it along side what I learnt and the advice I was given:

Our common ground :
What we are putting into our systems.
Diet - how many of use consume grains, seeds, nuts.  Well I grew up thinking was part of a very healthy diet. Little did I know, that many varieties of these types of foods contain something called phytic acid which is an anti nutrient.  Its natures way of the grain, seed or nut holding onto its nutrients and not giving them up to the whatever is consuming it.  Cutting these out of my diet (not completely - its impossible and impractical) made  a huge different to my digestion and absorption.  Helped explain why on a so called balanced diet, i was deficient in so my vitamins and minerals (according to tests I had done on a few occasions - hair analysis, sweat mineral to name a few, which did correlate with each other)

Outside of my own issues, if you have allergies to dairy, gluten, have chrons disease etc these can all dramatically effect the levels of minerals and vitamins you have in your system which will have a knock on effect throughout your whole system.  Its like a domino effect, deficiencies in certain vitamins of minerals and the body cannot synthesis them in chemicals it needs for hormones, neurotransmitters on the other end of the equation.  Going back to our issue, when you ejaculate, did you know you body needs these chemicals and minerals to name a few:
Dopamine, oxytocin, vasopressin, phenylethylamine, adrenaline, endorphins (including enkephalins), serotonin, norepinephrine, prolactin, testosterone, progesterone,  nitric oxide (NO), pheremones, neutrophins, luteinizing hormone, Tyrosine (precursor to dopamine and norepinephrine), follicle stimulating hormone, cortisol, prostaglandins, thyrotropin-releasing hormones, melatonin, relaxin, cytokines
ascorbic acid, blood-group antigens, calcium, chlorine, cholesterol, choline, citric acid, creatine, deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), fructose, glutathione, hyaluronidase, inositol, lactic acid, magnesium,
nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, purine, pyrimidine, pyruvic acid, sodium, sorbitol, spermidine, spermine, urea, uric acid, vitamin B12, and not mention zinc

So if this is all to ejaculate, what if were all ready deficient.  Does this take our systems down to empty - and if thats so, what does it use when it needs to perform other functions that use the same thing.  Well for me, this is where the problem lyes.

If you do have tests done to see what your deficient or low in, don't make the mistake I did and run out and buy everything I thought I needed.  This can cause more imbalance and it will leave you feeling worse, frustrated and significantly worse off financially.  There are many pit falls with supplements and you really need help in this area.  I found out I had a problem with my liver as it was not converting vitamins like B6 into its active form…meaning the B6 I was taken was having no effect at all apart from burdening my liver.  Also little did I also know that certain forms of minerals were not being absorbed either because they were not bioavailable to by body due to a binder that was incompatible with me.  An example was that even though I was taking Zinc citrate, my tests showed me up as deficient (in addition to the white spots on my names amongst other things).  I took Zinc Sulphate, and i was seeing much more positive response.  Taking sulphate was not my shooting in the dark - because of other evidence it was found beneficial for me to be using supplements that contain sulphur.  You need to find out what works best for you as this is very much tailored to my needs without going to an enormous amount of details why.

What we are not putting in our systems
Many of us do not do many of the basic things for good health, were not drinking at least 2 litres of water everyday. Were not looking after our digestive systems.  In a sense from our diets we are eating dead food or food that is so denatured with preservatives/sweetners that our bodies do not recognise it as food any more.  Im not going to preach, but I found some books called the The Makers Diet to be very helpful in taking us back to our roots in terms of diet before mass food production was around along side its brain washing marketing companies.   Fermented foods, like Sauerkraut as amazing for our digestive systems and can help heal our stomachs.  Our stomachs and digestive system are our petrol tanks and at the beginning of the process.  Problems here will cause knock on effects elsewhere which create symptoms so confusing it will leave you chasing your tail to solve. The root starts with the digestive system. 

On the subject of healing the digestive system, be very careful of pre and probiotics, these can be more damaging to you than good as certain strains of bacteria they add to these can encourage the wrong type of spores to reproduce which will give off toxins into your blood stream.  Some are good but many in my experience are not.



So once we have understood more about the right and wrong things to be putting into our systems, this should buy us time if we get this first part of the equation correct.  We can't possibly think straight if our brains are not getting the clean fuel we need.  The next step for me was to find out what was in my system that shouldn't be.  These things below, will decrease your absorption rate, make your system more toxic, stress your organs and make it near impossible for you balance your system and make any progress.

Parasites -  Mine was tested positive for candida, blastocystis hominis, h pylori all from a stool test I had done by a company called Metametrix
All but blastocystis hominis have now been eradicated by following protocols through my nutritionist. 

Heavy Metals: I was high in cadmium according to tests I had done by Great Smokies Diagnostics and Acumen.  I tired to detox myself and made myself ill, so my advice is to be careful, its a very delicate process and have patience.  Look towards a 2-3 year plan.  If you try to speed this process up by taking supplements I believe to be unsafe (I'm being controversial here) such as DMSA, cilantro, Zeolite you could end up feeling a lot worse where minerals you do need are stripped from your body or by putting liver and kidneys under unnecessary stress

Viruses: I had Epstein barr virus when i was younger diagnosed through symptoms and a blood test.  Although it is not conclusive, many practitioners in Acupuncture, Muscle testing, kinesiology all told me the same thing, that i had a virus inside me what was slippery.  My own intuition told me this was Epstein barr virus given, that when I'm feeling stressed or run down, my body aches in the same places it did when i had Epstein barr virus.  Around my neck, glands in my face, under my arms.  It is also know that Epstein barr virus doesn't always complexity leave your body after you receive first treatment. and lye dormant in your system.  On this occasion, I took the shot gun approach and took Olive leaf Extract and Oregano oil capsules (be careful with this as its very hot). For me I am making slow progress with this as I notice symptoms are dying down.  If you decide for yourself to do this, you might notice you feel a lot worse for the first 2 weeks - low energy, lethargic etc.  I stuck with it as I thought this was a die off symptoms.  Lucky for me it was and I felt better after - by 'better' I'm talking about significant progress after 6 months, 1 year…

Throughout my tests and research i discovered other factors which are specific to my system. 
Histamine and Homocysteine
I found out about my natural histamine and homocysteine levels. Turns out I was low histamine and high homocysteine. This itself is crucial information to find out as it will give you a better idea of why certain supplements will make you feel better while others should be avoided.  It is my opinion that this is like learning what type of car you have, diesel or petrol.  I had these tests at Biolab Medical Unit.

Amongst this, my testosterone, cortisol and neurotransmitter levels were measured at The Doctors Laboratory (is the name of place…not my doctors actual laboratory)

Neurotransmitters was a very interesting area for me, in particular Dopamine levels.  However this area is inconclusive to me at this stage before I feel comfortable about commenting.  I do feel this plays a huge role in the issues I have faced.  But as I've said from the beginning, this at the end of the chain and any unusual levels found here are a knock effect of something failing further towards the beginning of the chain.  If all we were interested in relieving symptoms then we would all be running to the pharmacies and taking medication which temporarily alter these levels… which will knock something else even further out causing new symptoms.


I agree with your points that these tests are expensive, but if like me you were spending £250 per moth on supplements out of desperation and impatience, then instead of spending experimentally on this, I use my money to put towards tests.  Going out getting all the tests in one go is not a good idea either.  I wasted thousands on unnecessary tests  which could have been avoided if I had been patient, the results from one carefully selected test would have led me onto to something more meaningful where its results would have been more insightful.

For anyone interested in my approach then my biggest bit of advice would be to find someone that can help. They do not need to be a professor who has written books.  Trust me, I've have been to these kind of people too.  They are successful for a reason, because they are also good business men.  In my experience the best people do not have fancy clinics in the most prestigious locations and do not have a website that looks like they spend more time and energy on google optimising it than they do looking after the patients they have.
I have also found myself a great nutritionist who normally deals with Autistic/Aspergers children and is recognised by a number recognised health councils. The reason for this was because from reading many books, it was apparent to me that people that suffer from this are not hugely dissimilar to us.  They are an extreme case of what happens when your system is completely out of balance, but in their case its almost irreversible given they have been like this since the ages of 3-4 upwards.   Also the nutritionist who treats them understands the metabolic functions better than anyone in my opinion.  So my analogy is if you want a strategy to go into battle, who better person to ask to advise on your strategy than someone who is experienced in extreme war on a day to day basis.  Someone who works with extremes.  These kind of people choose to work with extremes for a couple of reason. Firstly because they can, they have the knowledge and intelligence to understand their field and the broader picture.  They have the passion, compassion and patience to utilise there expertise effectively.

I can't advise you anymore on this, this might actually be the hardest part as you need to follow your own instincts and knowledge to find who you think can guide you .  My nutritionist advises me on tests, can interpret tests, can recommend me to a good GP should I need a referral letter, advises me on supplements and most importantly is conscious of saving me money by keeping costs down.

As I said I am not 100% there yet and it is often the last piece of the puzzle that is the hardest and takes the longest to find.  But the important thing is that I am on the right track.  That was all i wanted to to do with my post to was to show people a better track in case they were feeling lost.  To some of you a lot of this is obvious, so forgive me as my intention was not to patronise.  To others, maybe a lot of this doesn't sound like answers to you, its because I can't give you the answers, this is merely my story without any shortcuts which is all I can offer.












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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18235 on: 29/05/2013 02:32:17 »
questforlife, what has been the most effective supplement for you as far as improving your POIS symptoms?
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18236 on: 29/05/2013 09:01:56 »
Questforlife, thanks for sharing your history.
I agree that gaining health requires a general balancing, taking into account diet, immune system efficiency (infections and allergies control), correct supplementation, healthy lifestyle, enough sleep, stress management, etc.
I've gone thru all these steps in the last two years, with many results and few blunders. I still have some missing pieces, and POIS is one of them.
I see you try to be exhaustive, but if you could focus on what the main turning points have been exactly in resolving your symptom, in particular for what concerns POIS resolution.

The bits I am more interested in (because I'm also working on them) are:

- how did you get rid of recurring viral infections (EBV/CMV). I know we can make the virus dormant, but it's unknown if we can completely eradicate it from our system (like Herpes Virus).
- how did you exactly detect and what you did exactly to detox from heavy metals, if you didn't use chelators. And how you know that has completely happened (what tests).
- if you did use of hormones replacement (adrenal, thyroid, testo) during your program.
- if you are following a gluten or casein free diet, and that has really made a difference to you.
- what supplements combination has been the most effective to make you feel better in general and with POIS. E.g. was it most important balancing minerals, vitamins, using herbs
- if you used energetic medicine techniques both to test the conditions/remedies and to address them.

Thanks!

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18237 on: 29/05/2013 10:53:55 »
LAPOISSE,

there is 2 setups with   high  NA/K ratio  and low Na/K ratio....If you are with low  NA/K ratio  , zinc will kill you.

you need zinc with both  ratios, but  when ratio is low , you need to feed it with  something that  supports sodium/   like manganese for instance/   Easy to check where you are, do the  blood test,  estradiol and progesterone...  estradiol is sodium and  progesterone is pottasium.

Herman, My Oestradiol is 0,47nmol/L     range :  0,08 et 0,18 nmol/L

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18238 on: 29/05/2013 11:48:46 »
La POISSE,

what about your  progesterone.. and ferritin,  if ferritin is low and your progesterone is low or in range that would mean you have high  Na/k ratio   and  you are  estrogen dominant.  It could happen that you have pyroluria or  Wilsons or  zinc and iron deficiency or iodine deficiency.
Taking Zinc in your case will do you  only good,  also I would  rec to you  to decrease methylation with B12 B3  folic acid 

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18239 on: 29/05/2013 11:51:37 »
Questforlife,


You sound  like you are on  nutritional balancing program with  Dr Wilson.

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18240 on: 29/05/2013 11:53:06 »
Herman,

This is my ferritin bloos test : Ferritin : 121ng/ml    _22-275

I have no idea about Progesterone

This is other result I have :


Ferritin : 121ng/ml          _22-275
Iron serum : 12,60umol/l   _ 11,60-31,30
Transferrine : 2,21 g/l         _2-3,80

coper serum : 16umol/l     _16-31

TSH : 0,900 mUI                _ 400-3650
T4L : 15pmol/l                    _10,4-17

Is this confirm your theory ?

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18241 on: 29/05/2013 12:02:54 »
Well these  results  are from all over the place/

if you have more tests,  send it to me to gbolduev@mail.ru

So far what I see is high estradiol.  I am not sure if you have  high  progesterone.  I cant tell  from  the tests you gave me.   Ferritin at 121 could be partially  inflammation. 
Estrogen  retains copper and manganese /  Manganese  increases acethylcholine,   I think that is your POIS problem...Zinc directly chelates  manganese , so taking zinc will solve your problem I think. Dont forget maganesium.

Magnesium  B6 and zinc... is your  recipe/

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18242 on: 29/05/2013 12:44:56 »
Thanks Herman,

I'll try that.Another clue that lead to zinc deficiency is dry skin and dry hair. My skin is so dry that I lose piece of skin in my hand and my hair are more like straw than hair when I'm symtomatic ; it got much worse since i got back from vacation when I had 10 O in 10 days.Additionaly I'm pretty sure that I've inflammation since Nsaid's(keteprofen) is the only thing that help me without ant doubt and within hours.

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Offline benvil

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18243 on: 29/05/2013 22:28:23 »
Does anyone of you have problems with bloating stomach and gas?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18244 on: 30/05/2013 00:08:54 »
My abdomen often gets bloated and distended in pois. I don't think I get much gas though.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18245 on: 30/05/2013 00:18:17 »
I get bloating stomach, gas and diarrhea. Anyone else gets diarrhea?

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Offline LuckyMistake

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18246 on: 30/05/2013 19:37:56 »
Hey Guys.. I have been reading the forum for awhile and been suffering from POIS... I want to share my story.. maybe too soon but this is my first week feeling normal even after my O's. I feel like I am in another world. I am not sure if this will help everyone but after going to about 10 Urologist, I recently went to the best one in New York and it's been incredible so far.

I am a business owner... In shape 32 year old male..  About a year ago I feel like I was sucker punched in the testicals. Every time I ejaculated the same feelings would hit me... Nauseous..Brain was in a fog...  Inner legs hurt and depression/anxiety set in.  It took me to a very dark place. I was desperate. Every doctor I went to looked at me and thought I was nuts.  Some doctors don't even know what POIS is which was surprising...

My last doctor looked at my lifestyle.  I have never been asked how I live my life by any doctor.  After 50 questions we came to the conclusion..... I am straining my testicals.  I have had every since test under the sun and everything came back negative.  BUT I never looked at my day to day lifestyle.  I know this may not work for all but it is very important to look into.   As crazy as this sounds... I always push my stool out.  I never just let it flow out which seems to be a big culprit with also my working out.  I need to stop "PUSHING"  ALSO.. Right after the pain started... and after the first 2 months it would go away.. Anxeity played a HUGE role on my mental/physical health.  This is the first time I actually realized the mind can do some SERIOUS damage to the body.  Some may not believe this but for my life it was banging up my body pretty bad.  The craziest thing is it was all subconscience.  I don't even know how to even explain this.  All I can say is I am a normal guy and never had any mental issues in the past.

SO...  This is what my doctor told me to do.  This has been a life changer so far...

1.  STOP PUSHING...  Whatever it is... Just STOP
2.  Two hot baths a day with some epson salt
3.  Flaxseed Oil 3x a day
4.  Valium 2mg 3x a day  (This has helped alot with the stress and the sleeping)

I know this may not work for all..  Some may think I am nuts...  But if this helps one person it was worth it.   Good luck everyone and I will give updates (since this is still very early) 

Mike
« Last Edit: 30/05/2013 19:41:28 by LuckyMistake »

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18247 on: 30/05/2013 21:38:56 »
Hey Guys.. I have been reading the forum for awhile and been suffering from POIS... I want to share my story.. maybe too soon but this is my first week feeling normal even after my O's. I feel like I am in another world. I am not sure if this will help everyone but after going to about 10 Urologist, I recently went to the best one in New York and it's been incredible so far.

I am a business owner... In shape 32 year old male..  About a year ago I feel like I was sucker punched in the testicals. Every time I ejaculated the same feelings would hit me... Nauseous..Brain was in a fog...  Inner legs hurt and depression/anxiety set in.  It took me to a very dark place. I was desperate. Every doctor I went to looked at me and thought I was nuts.  Some doctors don't even know what POIS is which was surprising...

My last doctor looked at my lifestyle.  I have never been asked how I live my life by any doctor.  After 50 questions we came to the conclusion..... I am straining my testicals.  I have had every since test under the sun and everything came back negative.  BUT I never looked at my day to day lifestyle.  I know this may not work for all but it is very important to look into.   As crazy as this sounds... I always push my stool out.  I never just let it flow out which seems to be a big culprit with also my working out.  I need to stop "PUSHING"  ALSO.. Right after the pain started... and after the first 2 months it would go away.. Anxeity played a HUGE role on my mental/physical health.  This is the first time I actually realized the mind can do some SERIOUS damage to the body.  Some may not believe this but for my life it was banging up my body pretty bad.  The craziest thing is it was all subconscience.  I don't even know how to even explain this.  All I can say is I am a normal guy and never had any mental issues in the past.

SO...  This is what my doctor told me to do.  This has been a life changer so far...

1.  STOP PUSHING...  Whatever it is... Just STOP
2.  Two hot baths a day with some epson salt
3.  Flaxseed Oil 3x a day
4.  Valium 2mg 3x a day  (This has helped alot with the stress and the sleeping)

I know this may not work for all..  Some may think I am nuts...  But if this helps one person it was worth it.   Good luck everyone and I will give updates (since this is still very early) 

Mike


Valium enhances the effect of the neurotransmitter GABA by binding to the benzodiazepine site on the GABAA receptor (via the constituent chlorine atom) leading to central nervous system depression. Does POIS return when you stop taking Valium?

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Offline LuckyMistake

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18248 on: 31/05/2013 00:34:28 »
I havent yet tried but I have been taking half a pill because I am sensitive to medicine (Not what the doc recommended)  So it is 1 mg 3 times a day.  Eventually I will work myself off this but this has been the best result since the nightmare started.  Again.. this is all very new but I will keep you posted.  He gave me a prescription for 2 months but will follow up in a month. 

Right now I feel no pain in the groin are.. mind is CLEAR.. If I had to rate the tiredness (from the small dose of valium i think)  it would be around a 2 out of 10...  Leg pain.. very slight.  Nothing like I had before.  Last O was yesterday morning.. 

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #18249 on: 31/05/2013 02:16:57 »

Right now I feel no pain in the groin are.. mind is CLEAR.. ...  Leg pain.. very slight.  Nothing like I had before.  Last O was yesterday morning.. 

All of these improvements are from the Valium. It is a powerful and addictive drug that decreases both anxiety and physical pain even at 1mg 3x daily. The flaxseed oil is a good idea.
« Last Edit: 31/05/2013 07:14:44 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.