[demografx]

Previous NE's, prior to these three, have yielded POIS symptoms but the symptoms were considerably muted, which would lend credence to the intentionality theory, but still not explain it fully.

We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

[SteveD]

Demografx,

>>>We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

I feel sad , but a little envious, of the clarity you experience in the consistency of your experience of the illness.  I have, unfortunately, let  the 10-15% 'free passes' I have experienced on being orgasmic lead me to 'countless vain attempts' to try to 'control and enjoy' this illness.

On beginning to read previous entries in this thread I saw that you have experimented with chastity. What was your overall impression with using that as a technique?

Steve D.

[girlwind]

MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

Did you get the Free T3 and free T4? And what were the results on those.
Also what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Nope. He said T3 and T4 are controversial. Like I said, I didn't push it...and as I mentioned I don't have ALL "in range refs".

For now, I will just trust him.

Let's see what he can do. That's my bottom line. If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it.
If it works, I'll follow him anywhere[]

The big deal now is his recommended brain scan this Friday! MORE than enough for me. For now.

Getting a Free T3 and Free T4 test is not controversial. What IS controversial is that your endocrinologist (like most)
is ignoring the recent research that stresses the importance of using the Free T3 and Free T4 tests. Those are
the tests that will give you the MOST ACCURATE read on your thyroid.    TSH alone is worthless.

Here's what Joseph Mercola has to say about it:

"Q. You have said that if a TSH is above 1.5 there is a strong chance the thyroid gland is not working properly.
Can you explain why you feel that is the case?

A: I have carefully analyzed hundred's of patient's symptoms and had many of them take their basal body tempera-
tures. There appears to be a strong correlation between this threshold value of a TSH above 1.5 and the diagnosis of
hypothyroidism. Most patients who have TSH levels above 1.5 seem to respond quite well to natural therapies that
either improve or replace thyroid function.

Q. Why do you feel that [Free T3 and Free T4 levels are the only accurate measures of the actual active thyroid
hormone levels in the blood? Why do you feel these are more accurate than the TSH level, which is considered
the standard by the majority of conventional physicians?

A. The Free T3 and Free T4 levels represent the active hormones circulating in the blood. The typical thyroid tests:
Total T4, T3 Uptake (and Free Thyroxine Index (FTI) are virtually worthless and should have been abandoned years
ago. I believe that the Free T3 and Free T4 are not superior to TSH, but should be used in conjunction with TSH.
My contention is that the reference range for TSH is inaccurate. TSH is quite a good screen and will in fact assess
most cases of hypothyroidism if the new ranges are utilized. The value of Free T3 and Free T4 comes into play when one
needs to diagnose secondary and tertiary hypothyroidism. These are cases of hypothyroidism due to pituitary or hypo-
thalamic dysfunction. These are far less common than primary hypothyroidism, but nevertheless they do constitute a
significant percentage of individuals."

[underwater]

Hi Martin---
You mention that the slightest stress can trigger a more intense POIS experience (during POIS), where before this "stress trigger" there may have been close to a zero POIS manifestation. I think this happens to me all the time; during anxiety episodes and POIS episodes. I'm reluctant to say that certain things may help, because when I think I'm on to something, later I find that I am not. It's hard to avoid "stress triggers" in life, but I think we can strengthen our immune/nervous system overall to combat our problems. Girlwind seems to be focusing on a holistic approach,and I think she's very prescient. Granted, orgasm has its own neurochemical chain reactions, but I can't help thinking it isolated from our overall homeostatis.
     I used to do marathons back in the late 1970's and I ran long distance up to 4 years ago, when I switched to long distance swimming. My endorphins would keep me calm up to 90% of the time. However, stressful periods (with POIS or without) would
send me into discomfort. It seemed that POIS fit nicely in this mix and always made- and makes- things much worse. POIS seems to pile on my condition to make things intolerable (when I have it). Right now I'm trying to seriously work on supplements to my diet and remaining hydrated. This forum has helped a lot in getting me focused on diet, especially Girlwind's comments. I guess we all hope that a solution could be natural. If I feel that I have come upon some successful combination of my supplements I will report. I certainly have avoided sugar, alcohol and caffein for a long time. If I were to have a chocolate moose and a tall glass of champaign I would die, literally. Is that WEIRD?

[SteveD]

Underwater,

>>>>I certainly have avoided sugar, alcohol and caffeine for a long time. 

I've experimented with no alcohol, drugs, tobacco, caffeine, sugar , meat , dairy , eggs and wheat and it all helps, but if I were to be honest the sex is so powerful, for me, that it counteracts all my best efforts although it ameliorates the symptoms. There are other tools , too, that I've found useful, but the truth is, for me, that abstinence seems to be the only effective tool...a price I'm not willing to fully pay at the moment.


I've sent a post inquiring about demographx mention of abstinence, what is your experience with this, Underwater?

Quietly hoping there is some other solution,

Steve D.


Steve D.

[underwater]

Steve---
Like nutrition and exercise, abstinence is another way to deal with a unique nervous system. It's hard to "control" such a "hard wired" component, but I submit to abstinence all the time. But I am at the mercy of my primordial brain during sleep, always visited by a seductress intent on ....................................
I have never told my psychiatrist about this, he would think me mad! I think it's good to try to get a laugh about our condition once in a while, because for the time I'm  with POIS, I never feel like even writing, not even the desire to post a short comment like this one. However, with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one. 

[girlwind]

...what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Girlwind, I found it. My TSH is 3.1, the ref range is 0.3 - 4.7 mcIU/mL.

Demografx: Just an FYI to let you that the "NORMAL" range for thyroid tests has changed FIVE TIMES
over the last few decades. It's a long story, and I won't go into ALL the details, except for the latest ones.

IN LATE 2002, the announcement came out for yet a "new recommended normal range" for TSH.
Whereas the "prior normal" for TSH levels until 11/2002) was btwn 0.5 to 5.5. "Recommendations
from the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists now encourage doctors to consider treatment
for patients who test outside a narrower normal range of 0.3 to 3.0."

I'm surprised the lab that your endo used does not even recognize those new norms! And, as I mentioned
in my previous post, some doctors who have worked extensively with thyroid patients, use even a lower
normal for TSH, of BELOW 1.5. I think this is something that warrants consideration, and possibly future
retesting using the Free T3 and Free T4 tests in conjunction with TSH, with a doctor who is more open and
cooperative.

[demografx]

Demografx: Just an FYI to let you that the "NORMAL" range for thyroid tests has changed FIVE TIMES
over the last few decades. It's a long story, and I won't go into ALL the details, except for the latest ones.

Girlwind, I really appreciate your terrific update on the world of thyroid.

I do believe that I'm working with one of the world's top endocrinologists. I have worked together with him so far and - for many reasons - I want to play out the top hunch: that POIS and prolactin are somehow connected.

My prolactin reading is sky-high!

The brain MRI scan of my pituitary gland is next: day after tomorrow. And frankly, I'm a little nervous. This is a BIG DEAL. I simply have my hands full at this time.

Girlwind, also keep in mind: The thyroid gland is under the control of the pituitary gland! And at this time, we have no known theory that this ambivalent world of thyroid readings and POIS in men is connected.

The POIS prolactin theory was also corroborated by another old school buddy, a PhD biophysicist who is a pioneer in AIDS research.

So....once this current prolactin/pituitary drama is played out, I will pursue your excellent recommendations.

Thanks again.

[demografx]

Demografx,

>>>We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

I feel sad , but a little envious, of the clarity you experience in the consistency of your experience of the illness.  I have, unfortunately, let  the 10-15% 'free passes' I have experienced on being orgasmic lead me to 'countless vain attempts' to try to 'control and enjoy' this illness.

On beginning to read previous entries in this thread I saw that you have experimented with chastity. What was your overall impression with using that as a technique?

Steve D.

Thanks, Steve. It doesn't work (for me).

As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS! In my case it has also led to depression, loss of libido and ED.

On the positive side, if one can and wants to handle chastity...comfortably...then one is cured of POIS!

For me, the current comfort level is approximately 4-5 weeks of abstention at a time.

[underwater]

Girlwind---
Thanks you for your response a few days back--You mentioned Rhodiola and Holy Basil-
Can you tell me what time of day you take them. I've read quite a bit the last few weeks about these plants (including Valerian), and I was wondering if you can detect any improvement with them. Interestingly, my psychiatrist mentioned Valerian the last time I visited. My current operating theory is that if I can improve my overall well being (including my anxiety condition), POIS will be diminished even if just marginally. I remember for many years I was feeling quite well, and my POIS was tolerable, though measurably uncomfortable. I knew it was coming,I faced it well enough, and just waited a couple of days. About a year and a half ago, my whole being went into a tailspin,anxiety and POIS. I'm certain it was accumulated stress.
When I went to a Chinese Ph.D. in Biochemnistry (and acupuncturist) for treatment, she told me that in China the hormones are considered to be subject to psycho/emotional causes. I find it hard to accept this in its entirety, such as your
unfortunate encounter with lightning, but in many instances I think this is correct.

[demografx]

I have never told my psychiatrist about this, he would think me mad!

Underwater, I was nervous but I finally - over time - told 3 therapists, including 2 psychiatrists.

I believe it's important to tell them because if there is a negative reaction - now this is just my opinion - I don't think they deserve to be working with us!

Many people are closeminded when they hear about POIS - either through ignorance or primitive misunderstandings about sex - and we go through enough agony with POIS without compounding it by paying someone who is not acting in our best interests!!

There are sympathetic people out there. Let's stick to them!

[demografx]

...with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one. 

Thanks, Underwater! Actually, we have had POIS successes in 2008: with Levitra, Relora, Fenugreek, Garlic.

If I left any treatment out, someone please post them!

More on Levitra:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=levitra+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

More on Relora:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

More on Fenugreek:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fenugreek+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

More on garlic:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=garlic+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&btnG=Search

[SteveD]

≥≥≥≥Like nutrition and exercise, abstinence is another way to deal with a unique nervous system. It's hard to "control" such a "hard wired" component, but I submit to abstinence all the time. But I am at the mercy of my primordial brain during sleep, always visited by a seductress intent on ....................................
I have never told my psychiatrist about this, he would think me mad! I think it's good to try to get a laugh about our condition once in a while, because for the time I'm  with POIS, I never feel like even writing, not even the desire to post a short comment like this one. However, with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one.

I'm with you Underwater, I need to keep my sense of humor about this a bit, just to keep my sanity... 





>>>>>>Thanks, Steve. It doesn't work (for me).

As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS! In my case it has also led to depression, loss of libido and ED.

On the positive side, if one can and wants to handle chastity...comfortably...then one is cured of POIS!

For me, the current comfort level is approximately 4-5 weeks of abstention at a time.


Thanks for saving me the time of reading through the whole thread. Chastity as a solution is not acceptable as a solution to my partner as well!

Steve D.

[girlwind]

For now, I will just trust him.

Let's see what he can do. That's my bottom line. If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it.
If it works, I'll follow him anywhere[]

I do feel some concern about how quickly you are willing to surrender your power to an authority. I think
that having at least SOME LEVEL of skepticism is a good thing. I encourage you to be your own best health
advocate and to trust your own instincts above the advice of ANYONE else, including me.

[demografx]

...with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one. 

For 2007 and 2008 POIS successes and others on the Web!

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. MessageID: 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

[girlwind]

Girlwind---
Thanks you for your response a few days back--You mentioned Rhodiola and Holy Basil-
Can you tell me what time of day you take them. I've read quite a bit the last few weeks about these plants (including Valerian), and I was wondering if you can detect any improvement with them. Interestingly, my psychiatrist mentioned Valerian the last time I visited. My current operating theory is that if I can improve my overall well being (including my anxiety condition), POIS will be diminished even if just marginally. I remember for many years I was feeling quite well, and my POIS was tolerable, though measurably uncomfortable. I knew it was coming,I faced it well enough, and just waited a couple of days. About a year and a half ago, my whole being went into a tailspin,anxiety and POIS. I'm certain it was accumulated stress.
When I went to a Chinese Ph.D. in Biochemnistry (and acupuncturist) for treatment, she told me that in China the hormones are considered to be subject to psycho/emotional causes. I find it hard to accept this in its entirety, such as your
unfortunate encounter with lightning, but in many instances I think this is correct.

I have taken Rhodiola and Holy Basil during the day, after meals. The dose for the Rhodiola I took was only 2/day.
The Holy Basil I took up to 5 gel caps, 3X/day. I found each of them to be very effective initially, for lowering that
cortisol stress-buzz. But in time, they each lost their effectiveness, probably because my body got used to them.
I currently don't take them at all, and am hoping that in a year's time, they will possibly become effective again,
after I take a long break from them.

Valerian, UN-fortunately does not work for me. It causes me to become more hyper, rather than relaxed! This is
a bummer for sure, because valerian CAN BE a great sleep aid, if you don't have this sort of "paradoxical" reaction.

I totally agree with your conclusions about the improvement in one's overall well being causing a diminishment
of POIS symptoms. That has DEFINITELY been true for me. When my overall health is stronger and I am sleeping well
and feeling rested, my POIS symptoms are far less severe. Managing stress and staying balanced emotionally is
important, but that is much easier to do, when you feel strong and well rested!

[John21 (OP)]

If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it

I already have...that's my usual lunch, sorry it doesn't work. Dirt I'm not sure about, perhaps it's high in minerals.  []

I'm workin' on a theory... will be chatting in the new year.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[demografx]

If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it

I already have...that's my usual lunch, sorry it doesn't work! Dirt I'm not sure about, perhaps it's high in minerals.  []

I'm workin' on a theory... will be chatting in the new year.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Happy Holidays, John!

For those of you who don't know, John is the VERY FIRST POSTER on this thread! February, 2007!

But, John! Now you're gonna keep us all in suspense about your new theory? It's not fair!!!!!! []

[underwater]

I have a bad back---M.D. says probably arthritis or whatever--Chiro says compressed disc, out of whack--Acupuncturist says blocked meridians--Massage Therapist says tight muscles--Psychiatrist says that area is focus of my stress etc. etc.--
I say physical overuse and injury is original cause made worse by anxiety/panic/POIS triggers etc.--How will I deal with it?? I have to reduce Anxiety and Panic and POIS-
For me ALL are related to my back--Sometimes Anxiety and POIS wander around a choose a new way to torment--None of these "specialists" talk to other "Specialists"--Our culture requires "specialists"--Our bodies and souls require more than that---THIS FORUM MAY PROVIDE THIS BRIDGE, however diplomacy and delicacy are very important---As an attorney (one of my professions), I think argumentation is not helpful. We need MORE great people like we already have--With MORE and more people sharing their stories, I am confident that MORE and more ideas will be tested, and eventually there will be
critical moments when many will be helped-----Synchronicity and Epiphany-----
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL-------I always always always always feel better after a good meal----

[demografx]

I have a bad back---M.D. says probably arthritis or whatever--Chiro says compressed disc, out of whack--Acupuncturist says blocked meridians--Massage Therapist says tight muscles--Psychiatrist says that area is focus of my stress etc. etc.--
I say physical overuse and injury is original cause made worse by anxiety/panic/POIS triggers etc.--How will I deal with it?? I have to reduce Anxiety and Panic and POIS-
For me ALL are related to my back--Sometimes Anxiety and POIS wander around a choose a new way to torment--None of these "specialists" talk to other "Specialists"--Our culture requires "specialists"--Our bodies and souls require more than that---THIS FORUM MAY PROVIDE THIS BRIDGE, however diplomacy and delicacy are very important---As an attorney (one of my professions), I think argumentation is not helpful. We need MORE great people like we already have--With MORE and more people sharing their stories, I am confident that MORE and more ideas will be tested, and eventually there will be
critical moments when many will be helped-----Synchronicity and Epiphany-----
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL-------I always always always always feel better after a good meal----

Underwater, I have a back problem with conflicting specialist theories, so I think I can empathize with your plight.

I agree with your philosophy. I think an eclectic view of POIS will do great things for all the suffering. And that is not something that a typical medical research study can provide! The studies are too often funded by pharmaceuticals who have a vested interest in mass-marketing an existing treatment.

With the organization/research skills of people like B_Jim and Counterpoints here, perhaps we will be able to synthesize the amazing amount of information on this site and develop some protocols that are customized according to the needs of specific POIS sub-groups, e.g., mainly cognitive symptoms, primarily exhaustion-based, etc.