Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2600 on: 31/12/2008 09:58:57 »
Wheatgrass is a grass I grow on the roof of my building, in 17"X17" trays, in a soil of organic cocoanut shavings from Sri Lanka...Talk about obscure!

I gave up red meat 20 years ago when I gave alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and caffeine. Some remarkable man said I could 'get in touch with my feelings more' if I gave up red meat. As crazy as he sounded to me, at the time, that proved to be true, so I tried giving up white meat, dairy, eggs, flour and sugar...slowly, over 20 years and found that every surrender led me to better health and a better emotional life.

A friend liked what he saw it did for me and went to the Living Foods Institute in Atlanta. He came back and taught me about raw foods and living foods. Of the living foods group wheatgrass is far and away he most potent food for healing and health purposes in my experience.

20 months ago, in an attempt to solve the POIS problem I gathered nine natural foods experts around me and began to take wheat grass in volume, at it's peak 48 ounces a day, generally 12 ounces a day.The most remarkable result was that my desire to be sexual went away, which is what I wanted.  

SteveD
>>>>>I'm amazed that you can ingest that much wheat grass. When I drink just 4 oz., it gives me nausea. I'm thinking
that might be a detox reaction, but whatever it is, it's hard to stomach. Have you had that problem with it? Or
is there some way to remedy that, so the nausea is less intense?

The nausea goes away, but the nasty taste stays forever...reminds me of burnt motor oil...I try to remember the scene from Rocky I where he's drinking those raw eggs...

>>>Also, with raw foods... I can eat so much raw food in summer and it seems to make me feel better (though I do eat
meat as well in small "medicinal" doses). But in winter when it's cold out, I can't do it. I am cold all the time, even
while eating hot soups. How do the living foods people deal with that? Do they all live in hot climates? Or just set
their thermostat to 80 degrees.   [:D]

I'm cold a lot. I live in San Francisco where it's high 40's at night and low 60's during the day and I'm 5'9" and 139 pounds so I wear a leather jacket all the time.

By the way, I saw your youtube piece on POIS and really liked it. Do you do a lot of video production?


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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2601 on: 31/12/2008 10:17:12 »
Martin,

>>>>Steve you never make things "half" (I don't know the right expression) and that's a good thing!

I'm just extremely stubborn...


>>>>I'm wondering if wheatgrass is lowering libido or if it's your whole diet. Perhaps you're right because I know that green foods make me anxious sometimes, specially in pois. I think my anxiety arrives more easily in pois when I eat foods decreasing libido while I'm around pois. There is a close link between lack of libido and anxiety for me. By libido I understand pleasure, with sexual attraction, not an urgent need of ejaculation, it's different.

One of my favorite expressions is Gandhi's "Complete control of the palate made observance of the vow of celibacy very easy". I was already a raw organic vegan when I read that, but still filled with an urgent lust. For me, I knew that my lust was at the very bottom of my POIS (NE excepted). I started to weigh and measure all my food with a digital scale 20 months ago and make a food plan the night before, and somehow, and I don't know why, that gave me "complete control of the palate"....and my lust diminished down into just a normal libido.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2602 on: 31/12/2008 10:29:43 »
Just want to check in with you guys.

I began to talk publicly about POIS tonight . It was received fairly well. Some disbelief, some horror, some compassion and some tenderness. Glad I did it.
 
On another note, my hope is to negotiate with my partner to roll back our sexual activity from non-orgasmic sexuality, which we committed to, in therapy, yesterday, to simply hugging and kissing. Not all the time, but to just increase the frequency of those days. I experience POIS in degrees. The big "O" is the obvious sledge hammer, broad sword, body slam, big ticket item, but I experience loss way, way before that. So, we'll see.

Thanks,

Steve

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2603 on: 31/12/2008 13:23:23 »
I had to add an update to my precedent post when I say "It seems to be safe", it's not sure at all. Girlwind, do you think it would be wise to take the same ingredients (after a review) from an other source we can trust, since your experience is a very old one, maybe it's not the same product now. I can't understand why naturals products are not tested for contaminants by the government. Hopefully this will change soon, for example in Canada, I think all supplements will have to be given a "natural product number" by the health's governmental agency. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodnatur/applications/licen-prod/lnhpd-bdpsnh-eng.php
I can't find what they're testing exactly ..
« Last Edit: 31/12/2008 17:14:52 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2604 on: 31/12/2008 14:40:52 »
Quote
But, John! Now you're gonna keep us all in suspense about your new theory???? It's not fair!!!!!!

Ok Demo, as you wish. But my theory isn't new, and peanut butter might even help. I am thinking thyroid.

A couple of weeks ago my double vision came back on me. Double vision can be a symptom of hyperthyroidism. I always thought that if I had this malady I would have more of the listed symptoms, but maybe not: http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijfp/vol4n2/diplopia.xml

I realized that at the time this returned I had been away from home and had changed my diet. And when I returned home I was trying new foods as well. Why would this matter? Because my typical evening meal was broccoli/cauliflower/carrot + potato + soybeans. Soy, broccoli and cauliflower are all goitrogenic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitrogen

And as it happens, my typical lunch includes a PB&J sandwich, and peanut butter is on the list as well. So, what I unknowingly had was a diet well tailored to reducing somewhat the effects of an overactive thyroid. Could this explain my recent success post NE (rather than or in addition to garlic)? Well I had an NE yesterday morning and I definitely felt I was affected, although I have a cold making it harder to distinguish. Last night I loaded up on my typical goitrogenic supper and today I seem better already. If I am right a couple of intense weeks of this diet and my eyes might get better.

I am going to try to get some blood work done and if I am able to I will abandon this diet for a duration beforehand to try to prove the point. TSH plus freeT4 and freeT3 seem to be the tests to ask for.

Girlwind, I believe you are hypo? Do you find that you are sensitive to such foods?

John, maybe that's what it takes to be completely sexually abstinent, even if it will aggravate a rare episode of pois. Soya is rich in phytoestrogens. In a book I read that estrogens are helpful to avoid the urge for sex.

About cauliflower I noticed that it's increasing a lot the duration of my morning erections. maybe this is an explanation :
Eat Cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, and brussel sprouts. These contain Indole 3 Carbinol which increases the conversion of estradiol to “weaker” (2OHE) estrogen. Broccoli also contains quercetin which is beneficial for chronic prostatitis.

All this is very confusing with the thyroid theory, maybe the solution is to avoid always eating the same foods everyday.
« Last Edit: 31/12/2008 14:51:34 by martin88 »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2605 on: 31/12/2008 17:27:08 »
I have to add an update to my precedent post when I say "It seems to be safe", it's not sure at all. Girlwind, do you think it would
be wise to take the same ingredients (after a review) from an other source we can trust, since your experience is a very old one,
maybe it's not the same product now.

The Sunrider products were like a fad here for while in the late 80's up to the mid 90's, but they fizzled out in their popularity
mostly because of the multi-level marketing that marks up their price so much. I have no idea if they were tested to be free of
toxins and heavy metals, but I never heard any complaints about anyone having toxicity problems with them.  Of course, that's
not a very scientific assessment.

If you want to "create the same formula" as is in Alpha 20C, then the Sun Ten Labs/Brion Herbs herbs are the absolute cleanest
toxin-free Chinese herbs that you can possibly get. They actually won a Prop 65 lawsuit! And that is BIG proof.

"Of the numerous herbal companies sued to date, Sun Ten and Brion Herbs are the only companies who have successfully
fought the Proposition 65 suite by proving that thier products were not in violation of the California law.


The allegations stated that all of the Sun Ten and Brion Herbs' formulations and single herbs were violation of Proposition 65.
Over a period of three years, Sun Ten Labs and Brion Herbs Corporation engaged in a process of costly research and methods
of verification of manufacturing processes, using an international team of esteemed soil experts, herbal experts, pre-eminent
academic experts, and scientists in realated fields to document that all their herbal products, manufacturing practices,
sources of herbs and the soils in which they were grown do not add any metal pollutants,
and that heavy metals that occur
naturally in soils were reduced to the lowest levels possible. In this process they were able to demonstrate that all their pro-
ducts met the requirements of Proposition 65."



SOURCE: http://www.brionherbs.com/20.html
« Last Edit: 31/12/2008 17:29:59 by girlwind »

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2606 on: 31/12/2008 19:31:35 »

If you want to "create the same formula" as is in Alpha 20C, then the Sun Ten Labs/Brion Herbs herbs are the absolute cleanest
toxin-free Chinese herbs that you can possibly get. They actually won a Prop 65 lawsuit! And that is BIG proof.

Girlwind, do you know if Sun Ten Labs/Brion Herbs makes a specific product whose combination of herbs is similar to that of Sunrider's Alpha 20C?

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2607 on: 31/12/2008 19:42:28 »
Demo is right that it's not a good thing to find the ingredients only on ebay...

In terms of other references for the ingredients of Alpha 20C, I found this site:
http://www.prohealth.com/me-cfs/blog/boardDetail_temp.cfm?id=1248814
which has a posting that says:
Quote
One bottle is called Alpha 20C, dietary supplement, herbal concentrate, and has:
Nandina flower (Chinese white flower)
paris polyphylla (Paris herb) root
scutellaria balcalensis (scutellaria herb)root
dandelion root
imperata root

and another site:
http://wildlifeunity.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=131591&sid=32ae4c932f721a281546924d36944048
that says:
Quote
My grandma gave me some immune system type (all natural) pills called Alpha 20C, from Sunrider. I was just wondering if anyone could tell me if these ingredients sound OK for dogs?

- Chinese White Flower
- Paris Herb
- Scutellaria Herb
- Dandelion Root
- Imperate Root


While these are by no means 'authoritative' references, they do seem to match the ingredient listing on the ebay site.  (Interestingly, though, the ebay site lists "Bai-Mao Root" as one of the ingredients, whereas neither of these two sites include it.)

It would be helpful to find out if any of these ingredients are traditionally used for treating symptoms/imbalances similar to POIS...
« Last Edit: 31/12/2008 19:46:24 by Guthrie »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2608 on: 31/12/2008 20:10:02 »

If you want to "create the same formula" as is in Alpha 20C, then the Sun Ten Labs/Brion Herbs herbs are the absolute cleanest
toxin-free Chinese herbs that you can possibly get. They actually won a Prop 65 lawsuit! And that is BIG proof.

Girlwind, do you know if Sun Ten Labs/Brion Herbs makes a specific product whose combination of herbs is similar to that of Sunrider's Alpha 20C?


No, they probably don't make something like Alpha 20C. Their products are usually sold to acupuncturists/herbalists,
who buy the single herbs in bulk for their practice. You could check them out and see what they have, and possibly
buy the herbs singly and mix them together--but that might be expensive. Or if you see a TCM practitioner, maybe
they might be able to prepare a similar formula for you.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2609 on: 31/12/2008 20:13:02 »
It would be helpful to find out if any of these ingredients are traditionally used for treating symptoms/imbalances similar to POIS...

This is a site that I have used to identify Chinese herbs. There's probably others as well. This site lists
the herbs by their Chinese name--which works well when the label on the product does the same.

http://tcm.health-info.org/Herbology.Materia.Medica/Herbs.alphabetical.htm

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2610 on: 31/12/2008 20:45:51 »
Martin,
Quote
John, maybe that's what it takes to be completely sexually abstinent, even if it will aggravate a rare episode of pois. Soya is rich in phytoestrogens. In a book I read that estrogens are helpful to avoid the urge for sex.

About cauliflower I noticed that it's increasing a lot the duration of my morning erections. maybe this is an explanation :
Eat Cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, and brussel sprouts. These contain Indole 3 Carbinol which increases the conversion of estradiol to “weaker” (2OHE) estrogen. Broccoli also contains quercetin which is beneficial for chronic prostatitis.

All this is very confusing with the thyroid theory, maybe the solution is to avoid always eating the same foods everyday.

My diet hasn't seemed to affect my ability to stay chaste. But I eat rather healthy so if Gandhi was right then perhaps that makes chastity easier. It kind of makes sense to me in a psychological sense: lust could be a shapeshifter, morphing from food to sex. Perhaps there is also a biological reason why refusing excessive delicacies from the supermarket might reduce lust. Hey maybe that is how Daniel did it! It wasn't just the veggies he was eating, he didn't have any sex aftereffects clouding his mind [:D]

Whether the estrogens could be affecting me I don't know, but thanks for the info.


« Last Edit: 31/12/2008 21:02:34 by John21 »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2611 on: 31/12/2008 20:49:28 »
Dear Dr blank,
Thank you for the information. I had an email from a sex therapist here in the US who knows me, talking about a patient who has a similar reaction to orgasm and even to orgasm during her sleep. I will forward your information to this sex therapist.
I had not heard about this before, although I do know Dr Waldinger and know of some of his research.
I will have to look into this in more depth to see what feedback I can give to you. I am copying my research colleague, Dr. Barry Komisaruk on this reply to see if he has any feedback for you. Barry please copy me if you do respond to Dr. blank.
Sincerely,
Dr. Beverly Whipple

I did not expect such a quick respond
what should i respond other than gratitude

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2612 on: 31/12/2008 21:19:35 »

I did not expect such a quick respond
what should i respond other than gratitude

CCconfucious,
That is great!  Did you send Dr. Whipple a link to our forum?  Also, her email seems to indicate that her colleague's patient is another female with POIS, which is interesting.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2613 on: 31/12/2008 22:52:37 »
John,

>>>>My diet hasn't seemed to affect my ability to stay chaste.

It sounds as though chastity is something you practice or strive for.I have found this useful.

What does seem to affect your ability to stay chaste?

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2614 on: 31/12/2008 23:17:24 »
Steve,
I am not perfect at anything, chastity included, but I generally do well by avoiding what would lead my mind to "go there". As a single man I keep my eyes off web sites/television shows/etc that would even minimally instill lust. I find my greatest challenge comes when my sleep gets thrown off. I have had chronic insomnia for many years but it is much better than it used to be.  I continue to wake early in the morning but I usually get sufficient sleep these days. But if I was to drink even a small amount of alcohol it would mess my sleep up for a number of days, and it's that type of situation in which lust comes to me, for whatever reason.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2615 on: 01/01/2009 01:22:11 »
Steve,
I am not perfect at anything, chastity included, but I generally do well by avoiding what would lead my mind to "go there". As a single man I keep my eyes off web sites/television shows/etc that would even minimally instill lust. I find my greatest challenge comes when my sleep gets thrown off. I have had chronic insomnia for many years but it is much better than it used to be.  I continue to wake early in the morning but I usually get sufficient sleep these days. But if I was to drink even a small amount of alcohol it would mess my sleep up for a number of days, and it's that type of situation in which lust comes to me, for whatever reason.

John,

Thanks. I, too seek progress rather than perfection and I find that alcohol, probably more than anything, would kick up my lust.
Here' to an alcohol and POIS free New Years!

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2616 on: 01/01/2009 01:50:03 »
Just Brainstorming Here:
Can we share some descriptions of how we recover during the POIS recovery phase?
For me, it has traditionally be 2-5 days for complete recovery. When I have felt great "before", the period has been shorter. My observations: 1)Sleep returns and insomnia fades usually after 1 day   2) Body temperature ceases to fluctuate, and stabilizes after 1-2 days   3) Tinnitus diminishes after 2 days  4) Sensitivity to sound diminishes after 2 days  5) Heart rates returns to my normal 50 resting after 2-3 days    6) Energy level increases after 3 days    7) Dry mouth vanishes after 3 days
8) Less irritable after 3 days   9) Socializing/Humor returns after 4 days   
10) An umbrella of relaxation comes over me at 4-5 days like a magic tranquilizer that is my old self --------Happy New Year-------

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2617 on: 01/01/2009 16:39:17 »
I am wondering about the relation between fenugreek and cortisol.  A few days ago, Tarkington suggested:
Also since Fenugreek is supposed to increase cortisol and Relora decreases, perhaps either Relora or Fenugreek are the solution for the brain fog and mental problems.  It's only a matter of whether your body increases or decreases cortisol after orgasm. 

And, a little earlier, B_Jim wrote:
Fenugreek decreases glycemia, increase cortsiol (supposed), decrease inflammation .

However, in googling, I couldn't find much information fenugreek increasing cortisol at all.  In fact, the only link I did find on the relation between the two was one that said that fenugreek DECREASES cortisol:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6884420.html
Quote
Fenugreek, a slender annual herb of the pea family, may decrease cortisol production in the body when it is too high

Could those who had information about fenugreek increasing cortisol post the links you found?

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2618 on: 01/01/2009 16:48:29 »
Heres a government sponsored website that shows studies on prolactin and post-orgasmic.

Also check out the links on the right side

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16095799&log$=activity

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2619 on: 01/01/2009 18:15:46 »
Heres a government sponsored website that shows studies on prolactin and post-orgasmic.

Also check out the links on the right side

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16095799&log$=activity

Limejuice, this is great. Thanks! (I'm still waiting for results of my Prolactin Mystery : - )

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2620 on: 01/01/2009 18:29:56 »
I am wondering about the relation between fenugreek and cortisol.

Guthrie, while waiting for the fenugreek-cortisol-posters reply, the PDR info below on fenugreek has references at the bottom that might help.
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altmed/altmed-mono.aspx?contentFileName=ame0071.xml&contentName=Fenugreek&contentId=234

The following shows fenugreek and cortisol in forum posts:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fenugreek+cortisol+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com
« Last Edit: 01/01/2009 19:05:09 by demografx »

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2621 on: 01/01/2009 19:16:36 »
Haha, I've noticed this Fenugreek side-effect:

- Maple syrup smell in your sweat or urine

Personally I think it's benefit to using it :)  Oral deorderant anyone?

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2622 on: 01/01/2009 19:53:36 »
Hey guys,


Just kind of reviewing and making a couple of goals (read-New Years Resolutions!)
.
1) First off, and far and away the most important thing, I want to eradicate the effects of the POIS illness in my life....forever, one day at a time
2) I want this to be a great year in my life and the happiest lives I've seen are spiritual, not religious, so I want to develop more of the prayer and service part of my life.
3) If I can successfully stabilize the POIS, I want to develop my 'normal life'  (career, education, finances, having fun!)

Tha, tha, that's all folks!

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2623 on: 01/01/2009 23:42:59 »

I did not expect such a quick respond
what should i respond other than gratitude






CCconfucious,
That is great!  Did you send Dr. Whipple a link to our forum?  Also, her email seems to indicate that her colleague's patient is another female with POIS, which is interesting.

yeah i gave her link to both youtube and the forum.  I hope the sexologist she is talking about has good information for us.


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2624 on: 02/01/2009 00:06:14 »
i dont know if you guys notices this or not but in dr waldingers paper he mentioned oxytocin can impair cognitive skills when it is over produce and also it is one of the hormones produced after orgasm.

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2625 on: 02/01/2009 01:32:15 »
i dont know if you guys notices this or not but in dr waldingers paper he mentioned oxytocin can impair cognitive skills when it is over produce and also it is one of the hormones produced after orgasm.

CCconfucius, could you copy and paste the section about oxytocin and cognitive impairment, for those of us who don't have immediate access to the article?
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 01:33:50 by Guthrie »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2626 on: 02/01/2009 06:25:19 »
My diet hasn't seemed to affect my ability to stay chaste. But I eat rather healthy so if Gandhi was right then perhaps that makes chastity easier. It kind of makes sense to me in a psychological sense: lust could be a shapeshifter, morphing from food to sex. Perhaps there is also a biological reason why refusing excessive delicacies from the supermarket might reduce lust.
John, in my case food affects my ability to stay chaste and I definitely feel it's not psychological. However I can say this is a lot less true with the age. Shellfish food is the most able to cause me this. By the way I think it's prohibed by the bible to eat shellfish, I don't know why, but it's ok for fish thus probably providing just enough iodine.

Underwater, you may look to the form for our recovery experiences. Insomnia doesn't fade after one day for me ...

Happy new year to all! Hopefully we'll be able in 2009 to break a part of the security code!
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 17:46:10 by martin88 »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2627 on: 02/01/2009 07:09:57 »
My diet hasn't seemed to affect my ability to stay chaste. But I eat rather healthy so if Gandhi was right then perhaps that makes chastity easier. It kind of makes sense to me in a psychological sense: lust could be a shapeshifter, morphing from food to sex. Perhaps there is also a biological reason why refusing excessive delicacies from the supermarket might reduce lust.
John, in my case food affects my ability to stay chaste and I definitely feel it's not psychological. However I can say this is a lot less true with the age.

Martin,

Glad to hear that. That's my experience, too. I had two opportunities to  be sexual today and I chose chastity, which, for me, is no genital contact. I feel good about that. POIS slaughters me at an orgasmic level, but I get nicked earlier on in the process and I didn't today. If I stop it at a pre-genital  level, it does become psychological for me in that afterward I feel more high self esteem . When I'm orgasmic I don't even get to consider self esteem issues because, at that point, I'm so disconnected from myself physically/neurochemically.
 
On another note, I told my acupuncturist about POIS yesterday and about Relora, Feenugreek and Tumeric. He made me up a batch of mixed herbs to brew into a tea. Had a cup of it tonight and I feel pretty healthy actually. I was able to run three miles instead of two today, drank a 6 ounce and a 7 ounce glass of wheat grass...and , hey, I was able to do some work today! So POIS didn't catch me today, just for today...Yay


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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2628 on: 02/01/2009 08:24:32 »
Heres a government sponsored website that shows studies on prolactin and post-orgasmic.

Also check out the links on the right side

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16095799&log$=activity


Limejuice,

From the 'quote on the right'..."This series of studies clearly demonstrated that plasma prolactin (PRL) concentrations are substantially increased for over 1h following orgasm (masturbation and coitus conditions) in both men and women, but unchanged following sexual arousal without orgasm"

This suggests to me the possibility of  an allergic reaction to prolactin in POIS sufferers...and the multi-day refractory period time would then make sense.

More importantly, that if it is true that POIS does incur incrementally, prior to orgasm, in increasing intensity, that, according to this study, there is definitively an additional culprit, as prolactin clearly plays no part in non-orgasmic sexuality


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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2629 on: 02/01/2009 15:41:18 »
I just had FIFTEEN TUBES of blood drawn a couple days ago, to test (among a long list of other things)
all the hormones known to human kind.   [:)]  The hormone tests will be done at some special labs and the results
won't be back for several weeks. It will be interesting to see what new insights, if any, will come of this. Since it
cost me $2000 out of pocket, there better be SOMETHING worthwhile to be had from all the blood that was sucked
out of me. I am most curious about the cortisol and thyroid test levels, as I've been taking supplements regularly
for both. I feel (from a subjective/experiencial place) that they are better. Maybe the tests will agree with that.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 15:48:42 by girlwind »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2630 on: 02/01/2009 16:29:11 »
Confucius, it's great for your email ! At least we are sure they were not shocked by our problems with orgasm, like other organisms could eventually be if they were not accustomed to letters about sex. Perhaps it would be a good thing not to initially mention about orgasmic problems when we'll send letters in the future.

I just had FIFTEEN TUBES of blood drawn a couple days ago, to test (among a long list of other things)
all the hormones known to human kind.   [:)]  The hormone tests will be done at some special labs and the results
won't be back for several weeks. It will be interesting to see what new insights, if any, will come of this.
Thanks Girlwind to share this with us. I really hope something will come out. I know you're more concerned with CFS, but were these tests done in the middle of a pois episode ?
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 17:48:40 by martin88 »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2631 on: 02/01/2009 16:31:15 »
Girlwind--
Is your assumption that your Cortisol Levels need to come down?

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2632 on: 02/01/2009 16:46:32 »
Thanks Girlwind to share this with us. I really hope something will come out of this. I know you're more concerned with CFS,
but were these tests done in the middle of a pois episode ?

The tests weren't done in POIS. My POIS symptoms have been generally better since I started boosting my thyroid,
so that's one of my big curiosities with the results. Since I know my symptoms are better, will my thyroid tests show that
to be quantatively true? There are other hormones that I want to check as well, and I am DEFINITELY covering ALL of them.

Girlwind-- Is your assumption that your Cortisol Levels need to come down?

My CORTISOL levels have been CHRONICALLY TOO LOW. They have come up a bit over time, and last time I checked
they were just under optimal. I'm also testing DHEA-S and testosterone, which also give a clue as to the functioning of the
adrenals, as does the cortisol.

« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 17:13:06 by girlwind »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2633 on: 02/01/2009 17:30:56 »
first two paragraph result of hormone testing on two cases
third paragraph contains statement about oxytocin. 

Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary testicular
insufficiency; total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref. 8.3–34 nmo1/1) , free
testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref.: 45–108 pmo1/1), dehydroxytestosterone 0.62
nmo1/1 (ref: 0.90–3.70 nmo1/1), LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0), FSH 25.8 U/1
(ref: 2.0–8.0), prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75–275 mU/1).


Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary testicular
insufficiency; total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref. 8.3–34 nmo1/1) , free
testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref.: 45–108 pmo1/1), dehydroxytestosterone 0.62
nmo1/1 (ref: 0.90–3.70 nmo1/1), LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0), FSH 25.8 U/1
(ref: 2.0–8.0), prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75–275 mU/1).


Emphasizing the severity of clinical features, we propose to call this
cluster of symptoms post-orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS). POIS typically is
a postsexual disorder, suggesting that a factor associated with ejaculation or
orgasm serves as a trigger for the induction of a cascade of biological reactions.
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after
orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased (Carmichael,
Warburton, Dixen, & Davidson, 1994; Exton et al., 2000). To our best knowledge,
there are no reports in the literature that suggest that these hormones
Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome 255
are related to flulike symptoms. However, oxytocine has been suggested to
negatively interfere with cognition (Geenen et al., 1988). We assume that a
still-undiscovered factor or mechanism associated with ejaculation or orgasm
triggers a cascade of immunological reactions that culminate in the
previously described flulike symptoms.


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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2634 on: 02/01/2009 18:40:33 »
However, oxytocine has been suggested to
negatively interfere with cognition (Geenen et al., 1988).

Interesting!  I googled the article, and also came across another, more recent one, which also indicates that oxytocin can interfere with memory:

Selective amnesic effects of oxytocin on human memory.
Heinrichs M, Meinlschmidt G, Wippich W, Ehlert U, Hellhammer DH.
Physiol Behav. 2004 Oct 30;83(1):31-8.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15501488

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2635 on: 02/01/2009 20:22:55 »
Hi Steve!  Interesting theray.  I'll by it because I can't shoot it down - it makes good sense.  The only red flag is that women create lots of prolactin when breast feeding.  Hmm, are there any women here that have/do breast feed - do you get POIS when breast feeding?  I'd hate to just point at Girlwind but I think she's the only woman here.

Also Girlwind your tests are amazing.  From my understanding that the most comprehensive diversity of testing in thread history.  I can't wait to see results.

Between you and Demo my anixiety levels peaking - peaking in a good way.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2636 on: 02/01/2009 20:32:42 »
Relora experiementing -

I've taken relora a couple days and will share my results (Demo style).

Day 0:
- Take 2 relora and hour prior to orgasm
- Release
- Take another relora an hour later - I feel extreme relaxation
- Two hours later I have a POUNDING headache.  I never get headaches. It was so intense that I began sweating profusely, ran to the shower and sprayed my head with cold water.  It was pretty aweful.  20 minutes later it finally went away.
- Four hours after release no POIS symptoms

Day 1
- No POIS symptoms...I mean absolutely none.  This is bazzar as heck.  That headache yesterday was redic.  What will tomorrow hold?

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2637 on: 02/01/2009 20:39:57 »
Hi Steve!  Interesting theray.  I'll by it because I can't shoot it down - it makes good sense.  The only red flag is that women create lots of prolactin when breast feeding.  Hmm, are there any women here that have/do breast feed - do you get POIS when breast feeding?  I'd hate to just point at Girlwind but I think she's the only woman here.

Also Girlwind your tests are amazing.  From my understanding that the most comprehensive diversity of testing in thread history.  I can't wait to see results.

Between you and Demo my anixiety levels peaking - peaking in a good way.

Hi Limejuice--I don't have any children, hence no breast feeding in my history. None of the women I can think
of have POIS, but I will ask around to do those who've had children and see what their experiences were.

And definitely, this is ABSOLUTELY THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE SET OF BLOOD TESTS I've ever had. My vein
hurt for three days afterward! I really do hope there is SOMETHING to be gained from it.

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2638 on: 02/01/2009 20:56:06 »
FENUGREEK UPDATE

On Wednesday night, I took 6 Solgar fenugreek capsules 2.5 hours before release.  For the previous few releases, I had taken 3 capsules.  During the day on Thursday, I felt better than I did the previous few times.  The brain fog was still decreased, and in addition, there was even less mental, physical, and emotional sluggishness.  It still wasn't a 'complete cure', but it seems that the doubled-dosage had a positive effect.

Next time, I may try taking the capsules after release, rather than before, to try to determine whether the fenugreek has a corrective or merely preventative effect on my POIS symptoms.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2639 on: 02/01/2009 21:06:50 »
A few studies in males and females have shown that during and after
orgasm prolactine and oxytocin concentrations are increased (Carmichael,
Warburton, Dixen, & Davidson, 1994; Exton et al., 2000).


CCconfucious

This would explain why there are losses prior to orgasm, if the culprit is prolactin, although the findings appear to be in conflict with the previously mentioned study.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2640 on: 02/01/2009 21:37:22 »
FENUGREEK UPDATE
On Wednesday night, I took 6 Solgar fenugreek capsules 2.5 hours before release. 
Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2641 on: 02/01/2009 23:00:21 »
Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract


Martin88, you are right that I (and the rest of us) should be careful with the fenugreek (as well as the other remedies we are trying).  However, Solgar's own page on Fenugreek says the following:

Quote
How much is usually taken?

Due to the somewhat bitter taste of fenugreek seeds, de-bitterized seeds or encapsulated products are preferred. The German Commission E monograph recommends a daily intake of 6 grams.(footnote 11) The typical range of intake for diabetes or cholesterol-lowering is 5–30 grams with each meal or 15–90 grams all at once with one meal. As a tincture, 3–4 ml of fenugreek can be taken up to three times per day.
http://www.solgar.co.uk/healthnotes/healthnotes.asp?org=boots&ContentID=2090006

So, they seems to be a pretty wide range, up to 90 grams (= 180 capsules!) a day.  The low end, 6 grams per day, would still be equivalent to about 12 Solgar fenugreek capsules.

I guess the question would still be: how much fenugreek does it take to cause hypokalemia?  I didn't see any sources on that issue.  Are 6 capsules per day problematic?  3 capsules? 1 capsule?  Presumably, fenugreek in excess is not good, but what should we count as 'excess'? 

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2642 on: 02/01/2009 23:08:13 »
Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract

"Hypokalemia refers to the condition in which the concentration of potassium in the blood is low." (Wikipedia)
Maybe one way to insure that potassium levels stay at an optimal range would be to take a mineral supplement with the fenugreek.
If magnesium levels in the blood drop, that can also cause hypokalemia. So probably a mineral supplement which includes all the
major electrolytes and some of the trace minerals might be a good thing. Or... you could eat bananas with your fenugreek.   [:)]


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2643 on: 02/01/2009 23:31:44 »
Dear Ms. blank,
This is the first I have heard of this condition.  Do you have any insight
into factors that initiate the condition?  Is there any common theme among
the sufferers?  At what age(s) does it start?
Does it ever clear up spontaneously?  Once it starts does orgasm from any
type of stimulation (self or other) produce the same set of symptoms?
Please let me know.
Barry R. Komisaruk, Ph.D.

HI every one second response from other author, can you please help me answer those questions.


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2644 on: 02/01/2009 23:40:18 »
My final report on fenugreek. Two before orgasm and two after orgasm.     
brain fogginess gone I can read now even into the night.
total exhaustion reduced alot.
cognitve skills still impaired
memory still impaired.   

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2645 on: 02/01/2009 23:56:40 »
My final report on fenugreek. Two before orgasm and two after orgasm.     
brain fogginess gone I can read now even into the night.
total exhaustion reduced alot.
cognitve skills still impaired
memory still impaired.  

CCconfucius, your experience with fenugreek sounds VERY similar to my own!

I wonder if anything can be concluded from the fact that it seems to affect some symptoms more than others.  Is the brain fog the 'tip of the iceberg', which is affected first?  Or is the brain fog caused by a separate imbalance, which fenugreek can correct, while the other symptoms are caused by a different imbalance, which fenugreek is less able to correct?  Hmm...

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2646 on: 03/01/2009 00:00:05 »
what should we count as 'excess'? 
Perhaps you're right Guthrie, I really don't know, but personally I'd count as excess what solgar says on the label of their product since this information probably come here for a reason.

Note that the product you're taking does not contain only fenugreek powder but also an extract, so this means probably "more concentrate" ? I'm in the unknown but I just wanted to point this out.
http://www.solgar.com/labels/imgviewer.aspx?vitamin=/getattachment/79add47b-e750-4f98-8dd1-ce26853db3a8/FP-Fenugreek-Vegetable-Capsules.aspx&swf_width=469&swf_height=155


Girlwind if the good effect for pois is because potassium is slightly reduced then maybe it won't work to cure pois !

Bananas is a good source of potassium. You can also take dried apricots which are a lot more rich in potassium.
But maybe it won't make a difference if potassium is not absorbed at a cellular level because of fenugreek..
« Last Edit: 03/01/2009 01:03:20 by martin88 »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2647 on: 03/01/2009 00:14:49 »
Confucius, it's great for your email ! At least we are sure they were not shocked by our problems with orgasm, like other organisms could eventually be if they were not accustomed to letters about sex. Perhaps it would be a good thing not to initially mention about orgasmic problems when we'll send letters in the future.

Martin else are we to get interest if the problems are not mentioned, these two authors wrote a book on orgasm so i was not really expecting any shock.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2648 on: 03/01/2009 00:32:35 »
CCconfucius, your experience with fenugreek sounds VERY similar to my own!

I wonder if anything can be concluded from the fact that it seems to affect some symptoms more than others.  Is the brain fog the 'tip of the iceberg', which is affected first?  Or is the brain fog caused by a separate imbalance, which fenugreek can correct, while the other symptoms are caused by a different imbalance, which fenugreek is less able to correct?  Hmm...

I guess we can test that by continuing usage of fenugreek and see effects.

I will use three fenugreek pills a day untill recovery time and post its effects.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2649 on: 03/01/2009 00:44:04 »
I thought oxytocin was also a main chemical in breast feeding.
 
Oxytocin is also not suppose to cross he brain blood barrier but why does the brain has neurons for it.