Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3800 on: 10/03/2009 02:37:34 »

B_Jim, Counterpoints, Girlwind...everyone, I know I repeat this, but aren't exhaustion and fatigue predominant in defining POIS, not "also rans"?

I thought cognitive symptoms were secondary.


No, exhaustion should not be used to define POIS.  I think we should be general... POIS is characterized by severe symptoms following orgasm.

Also, cognitive symptoms are not secondary.  We see some cognitive symptoms reported in almost every case.  Cognitive symptoms may be secondary to your specific case, though.  (Is that so?).

And exhaustion could be considered a cognitive symptom.

(What do you mean by "also rans"?).


I've been here from the beginning (2 years) and I have seen fatigue as a prime complaint. But I won't post at wiki until we have some more concrete data.

B_Jim hopefully can help us resolve this from the 200 cases he's looked at.

Yes, you are primarily cognitive, and I am more on the energy-drain side of the coin. But I do have (have had?) solid cognitive problems.

"Also rans" is a popular term that originally comes from horse racing, alluding to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place vs. winners.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3801 on: 10/03/2009 02:45:09 »
Mental and physical exhaustion is already listed on the wiki article as a primary symptom, with a note that some people with the general cognitive symptom cluster (brain fog, etc.) do not experience this specific symptom. (This was recently revised.  Before the note said some people experienced the opposite effect, but I think the present explanation is more clear).  It's (and it was) in italics; there is even special emphasis on this point.

Also, as I've noted, 'exhaustion' can be considered a cognitive symptom. 

And I have read most of the cases here.  I came at p. 27 of 164, and when I arrived, I read through the first 27 pages.  I've also studied the survey responses.  I don't remember everything I've read -- maybe someone else remembers better than me -- and I'm sure I've missed things, but I am relatively 'aware' of what has been reported. And based on what I remember, I am not in disagreement.  What is the apparent disagreement?
« Last Edit: 10/03/2009 03:36:35 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3802 on: 10/03/2009 03:53:45 »
W
Mental and physical exhaustion is already listed on the wiki article as a primary symptom, with a note that some people with the general cognitive symptom cluster (brain fog, etc.) do not experience this specific symptom. (This was recently revised.  Before the note said some people experienced the opposite effect, but I think the present explanation is more clear).  It's (and it was) in italics; there is even special emphasis on this point.

Also, as I've noted, 'exhaustion' can be considered a cognitive symptom. 

And I have read most of the cases here.  I came at p. 27 of 164, and when I arrived, I read through the first 27 pages.  I've also studied the survey responses.  I don't remember everything I've read -- maybe someone else remembers better than me -- and I'm sure I've missed things, but I am relatively 'aware' of what has been reported. And based on what I remember, I am not in disagreement.  What is the apparent disagreement?


Wouldn't "mental and/or Physical" be a more comprehensive way of saying it?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3803 on: 10/03/2009 03:56:38 »
Counterpoints, I think people would look at your list, below, as being in descending order of importance. That's the way most people read lists.

Exhaustion, below, unfortunately looks like an afterthought, buried as it is in a followon paragraph. And then followed by the energetic exceptions!

I think Exhaustion belongs at the very top where difficulty communicating is placed.




Most commonly reported symptoms:

difficulty communicating (possibly a temporary aphasia)
word-finding difficulty
anxiety
irratibility
social phobia
inability to relax
short term memory problems
inability to focus (attention deficit)
lack of spontaneity or creativity
cravings for the relief that follows orgasm
slow to process information
overall cognitive impairment (brain fog)
Most POIS sufferers report the above symptoms, regardless of whether they have some of the additional symptoms listed below. Another frequently occuring symptom is exhaustion, either mental or physical. However, there are several cases of people with the above symptom cluster who do not feel exhaustion.



Thanks, Counterpoints, for listening (reading [:)])
« Last Edit: 10/03/2009 05:07:25 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3804 on: 10/03/2009 04:24:21 »

TYROSINE EXPERIMENT

(P.S. Thank you all for your support and kind advice)  [:)]


And thank you for sharing your results!

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3805 on: 10/03/2009 04:37:24 »
When I did a search for POIS.  I came up with such things as Hawaiian food and Post office insurance.   There was a list of acronyms but ours wasn't included.  I submitted it which is subject to editor approval( our site was listed)
Also there was a medical condition Pulmonary over- inflation  syndrome. 
Hopefully there won't be any confusion.
 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3806 on: 10/03/2009 04:41:18 »

Glad to hear your treatment is still working Demo :)


Many thanks, Hurray. And I do have 6 more months successful experience from last year, now that I know what was working when it was! (Hope that makes sense)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3807 on: 10/03/2009 04:50:22 »
DR. WALDINGER AND WIKI

Just to let you all know that I gave him the link to the article today, since his name is prominently mentioned as the "founder" of POIS.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3808 on: 10/03/2009 05:08:56 »
Counterpoints for your form I'd prefer to keep it private like it is. Just my opinion you asked for.

I don't know a lot about Wiki so I'm apprehensive for now:

Is there a possibility that someone with a strong scientifical background come and write something bad like "most MD think it's psychological". Wikipedia is supposed to reflect the truth and to stay very neutral, it's not a promotional site. Actually it's true that most MD think it's psychological, so this can eventually appear in Wiki.
Now if a researcher read this and see it's psychological he will believe his colleagues and will go away.
So it would be important to clearly mention that pois still need a good medical investigation.
We could eventually be taken not for taoist/religious group but for psychiatric cases!

« Last Edit: 11/03/2009 03:35:17 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3809 on: 10/03/2009 05:31:05 »
In fact a medical study has never been done to be able to say if it's psychological.
CP, nice that it's written "all pois cases are reporting the same symptoms". For me one of the most interesting is the peak on day 2.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3810 on: 10/03/2009 05:55:53 »
Martin, I don't think most MD's have been exposed to POIS, so the risk may be small to label us as psychological. Perhaps you are influenced by OUR experiences with MD's, but we are only a small fraction of the mainstream population.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3811 on: 10/03/2009 13:50:03 »
Martin, I don't think most MD's have been exposed to POIS, so the risk may be small to label us as psychological. Perhaps you are influenced by OUR experiences with MD's, but we are only a small fraction of the mainstream population.
Could it be "most MD who have seen pois cases"?
If I remember well, there was also a MD from TNS who suggested to investigate with psychiatrists instead of endocrinologists.

Pois is only based on observations (empiricism), even by Dr Waldinger, and need a medical study to confirm that it's not psychological (what we almost all feel/know already).
« Last Edit: 10/03/2009 14:05:02 by martin88 »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3812 on: 10/03/2009 14:13:46 »
Tyrosine Experiment

DAY 2

UPDATE: This morning I continued my course of 1g of Tyrosine, and have waited for its effects to occur.

(As i mentioned before, Day 2 is usually when POIS symptoms reach their peak)

Now i can confirm: While not cured, i can definately feel an improvement in my POIS symptoms, which during Day 2 are and include: Depression, suicidal thoughts, Poor motivation, Quite strong fatigue, Social withdrawal, Poor concentration, terrible attention span and memory difficulties.

Today, however, having taken 1g of Tyrosine, i notice a definite and significant difference.

Symptoms which have improved are: No depression
                                  No negative/suicidal thoughts
                                  Concentration improved
                                  Attention span significantly increased
                                  More motivation
                                  Memory remains stable
                                  Very little irritability
                                 

The only symptoms remaining (which I must add are pleasantly slight) are: Light fatigue (definately an improvement)
                                                                          Brain feels somewhat hazy (though definately not brain fog)
                                                                          Slight hunger, somewhat like Hypoglycemia symptoms (Interested in this).
                                                                          Slight confusion

To summarise, i can definately feel an improvement with the Tyrosine supplementation.

This leads me to believe that my POIS symptoms stem from low Dopamine. If this is so, would i not benefit more from drugs called Dopamine agonists? Any thoughts?

I also feel that something else is necessary to eliminate the remainder of my symptoms. One thought i had was supplementing DHEA. Any thoughts?

Will keep you posted of any changes through the day.

Tomorrow i will continue my course of 1g of Tyrosine, and provide my Day 3 update.

Thanks

Ambient


                                                                         
                                                                           
« Last Edit: 10/03/2009 14:34:19 by Ambient123 »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3813 on: 10/03/2009 17:17:43 »
Counterpoints, I think people would look at your list, below, as being in descending order of importance. That's the way most people read lists.

Exhaustion, below, unfortunately looks like an afterthought, buried as it is in a followon paragraph. And then followed by the energetic exceptions!

I think Exhaustion belongs at the very top where difficulty communicating is placed.




Most commonly reported symptoms:

difficulty communicating (possibly a temporary aphasia)
word-finding difficulty
anxiety
irratibility
social phobia
inability to relax
short term memory problems
inability to focus (attention deficit)
lack of spontaneity or creativity
cravings for the relief that follows orgasm
slow to process information
overall cognitive impairment (brain fog)
Most POIS sufferers report the above symptoms, regardless of whether they have some of the additional symptoms listed below. Another frequently occuring symptom is exhaustion, either mental or physical. However, there are several cases of people with the above symptom cluster who do not feel exhaustion.

Thanks, Counterpoints, for listening (reading [:)])

Hmmm... this isn't really what I had in mind (a list in terms of importance).  I don't read these types of lists in that way.  What if all symptoms had equal importance, for instance? You would still have to list them in some order.  I don't think we have enough data to do sub-rankings of symptoms (e.g. which are the most common of the most common symptoms).  It's way too specific.

We could put a note to this effect. ("These symptoms are not ranked in order of frequency").

When I made the list, I was trying to present it in such a way that would most help researchers.  We see different symptom clusters here, which suggests that POIS has multiple causes. There's basically the standard cognitive "cluster", which people have or don't have: e.g. they have all of the symptoms in that cluster, or none of them.  While exhaustion is a frequently occuring symptom -- probably just as frequent as any symptom in the 'standard cognitive cluster' -- it doesn't fit into the same pattern.  People with the standard cluster will either have exhaustion, or they won't (about 50% either way).

So in terms of trying to find a cause for different symptom clusters, I think it's critical to differentiate.  It's not a matter of diminishing or elevating the importance of any specific symptom. 

But we can try and make this more clear.  I imagine the article will take months to get to a standard where we are all happy about pretty much everything.  Right now, I don't think there's danger of anyone reading the article missing 'exhaustion', and that's what really matters, imo.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3814 on: 10/03/2009 17:25:19 »
B_Jim, that was very enlightening, thank you! So how can we make "tiredness" more predominant without losing wiki credibility???????? And do you agree that tiredness/exhaustion/fatigue is predominant across the 200 cases????

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3815 on: 10/03/2009 17:26:18 »
Martin, I don't think most MD's have been exposed to POIS, so the risk may be small to label us as psychological. Perhaps you are influenced by OUR experiences with MD's, but we are only a small fraction of the mainstream population.
Could it be "most MD who have seen pois cases"?
If I remember well, there was also a MD from TNS who suggested to investigate with psychiatrists instead of endocrinologists.

Pois is only based on observations (empiricism), even by Dr Waldinger, and need a medical study to confirm that it's not psychological (what we almost all feel/know already).

The best way, in my opinion, to get some medical studies, is to bring attention to the problem.  It's like asking a girl out.  If you ask, you may get rejected, and that will hurt.  But if you don't ask, you are guaranteed to be dateless.

That said, we do have to be careful about credibility.  I don't see a danger of losing credibility at present, though.  Just saying "this is what we have observed about POIS and here are some POIS related links" is not going to lower credibility.  It's something we'd have to tell anyone interested in learning more about POIS.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3816 on: 10/03/2009 17:27:10 »
COUNTERPOINTS, one way to combat this built-in bias of import/descent is alphabetical sequence!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3817 on: 10/03/2009 17:31:21 »
COUNTERPOINTS, one way to combat this built-in bias of import/descent is alphabetical sequence!

Yes, I had thought about this.  Let's do it. :).

But we should still have some note about exhaustion not being part of the standard cognitive symptom cluster.  I don't dispute that it's a predominant symptom, so I don't know why we are continuing that part of the discussion.  Do you understand what I'm trying to do with these symptom 'clusters'?

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Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3818 on: 10/03/2009 18:58:00 »
B_Jim, that was very enlightening, thank you! So how can we make "tiredness" more predominant without losing wiki credibility???????? And do you agree that tiredness/exhaustion/fatigue is predominant across the 200 cases????

Just a note on this in regards to my symptoms. I've noticed I don't suffer from "fatigue" persay, more so an increased sensitivity to tiredness and exhaustion. For example if I go for a run after climax, whereas I could run a couple miles easy now I'm feeling more the tiredness in my muscles, in the first mile, as they become exhausted. I can still run my full set though. The reason I lean towards this in myself and not an actual increase in fatigue is I also become more sensitive to hot/cold (which sucks when you live somewhere that is 100 in the summer and -10 in the winter). Now is there necessarily a difference or would you consider that the same as "increased fatigue"? Without a doubt though for me the loss in mental capabilities (ie, what threatens my ability to do my job, interact with others) has the greatest impact on my life.

I wonder if a survey breakdown somewhere where we could easily see all the POIS sufferers (like in a concise spreadsheet format so you can see many people at the same time), listed by gender, age, and physical fitness levels, AS WELL AS any conditions (even if they seem unrelated) that exist in us  and our immediate family. For example, my grandfather died with stage 2 alzheimers, my mother, aunt, and uncle all suffered from depression (practically put my mother in a cage within her own home for most of her adult life). My mother also has Primary Biliary Cirrhosis (an auto-immune disease of the liver) and I have an auto-immune disease called lichen planus (my immune system attacks my own skin cells). Depression suggest hormonal imbalance and the auto-immune diseases makes me wonder about the possibility of an auto-immune response... heh.

Two things I've looked at that I don't THINK I've seen mentioned here are the acetylcholinerase inhibitors and opiod blockers. I've read that climax can reduce acetylcholine levels as well. So I wonder if an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor might help in some fashion (increases acetylcholine) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donepezil. I've also read that part of the chemical release during climax includes opiods, so I wonder if an opioid blocker would have any effect is a person was having a reaction to them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naltrexone Please note that MY own research thus far has been very unscientific and I tend to draw together distant theories just for the sake of gathering together any and all possibilities. Both of these drugs have serious side-effects and should not be taken without the close supervision of your physician.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2009 19:02:36 by Defsync »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3819 on: 10/03/2009 21:25:33 »
Ambient123,
Quote
To summarise, i can definately feel an improvement with the Tyrosine supplementation.

This leads me to believe that my POIS symptoms stem from low Dopamine. If this is so, would i not benefit more from drugs called Dopamine agonists? Any thoughts?

You could try eating Fava. I eat the canned type sometimes and they are tasty but to potentially increase dopamine you have to eat the "green" type.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2009 21:28:03 by John21 »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3820 on: 10/03/2009 23:26:02 »

what else helps a lot for pois, anxiety and all these other conditions is  Rhodiola Rosea... Try It.


GC, tell us more about your experience with it.

If your like me and seem to get a rush of anxiety right after sex, try rhodiola rosea.  For me it makes me feel relaxed.  I'm also taking this now as a general supplement because for me if relieves brain fog, and I generally feel a lot smarter.  This can be because it balances certain chemicals in the brain.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/benefits-rhodiola-rosea.html

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3821 on: 10/03/2009 23:57:04 »
Aaron
Regarding inflammatory response post orgasm:
I get lower back pain and an irritating, slight burning in groin. Mine comes on 6-8 hours post "O". It's the last symptom to leave. For me it probably involves re-injury to tiny muscles. Then there is probably an inflammatory response that extends to my back. After watching this for 20 years, the trigger doesn't seem neurochemical, but it certainly may be the catalyst for an inflammatory response throughout the body which then becomes a larger neurochemical/autoimmune issue. I appreciate all the discussion re: POIS definitions, but for some of us there may be a significant neuromuscular component that plays a part also. For my body type, very wirey, parts of my body are constantly becoming irritated with "overuse". I am doing some experiments in this area presently. The frustrating thing with this feeling of burning/irritation is that it can last much longer than the traditional POIS period.
I spent $5,000 last year working on this symptom only. Sometimes it just comes on with stress, But its orgin goes way way back to orgasm/ejaculation; in my case probably an injury to soft tissue.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3822 on: 11/03/2009 00:02:33 »
A small adenoma was found on my pituitary.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3823 on: 11/03/2009 01:55:04 »

A small adenoma was found on my pituitary.



Counterpoints, I hope that's controllable! Best wishes, CP.
« Last Edit: 11/03/2009 03:33:04 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3824 on: 11/03/2009 03:23:09 »
Sorry to hear you have this Counterpoints, but at least you know it now. It seems your ACTH was high (normal high) for someone who has a high cortisol. Hope you'll update on what your doc is thinking.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3825 on: 11/03/2009 04:14:33 »
A small adenoma was found on my pituitary.

My regards.

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3826 on: 11/03/2009 13:17:56 »
Counterpoints, I am very sorry to hear about your condition.

I suppose the only thing that can be derived from this news is that you may have found the source of your symptoms.

My condolensces are with you.

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3827 on: 11/03/2009 13:24:17 »
I intended to give my Day 3 report of my Tyrosine experiment, however in light of Counterpoint's news, i'm not sure i would feel right delivering the update to you all.

However, if people are okay with it, then i will provide the Day 3 update.

Thanks

Ambient

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3828 on: 11/03/2009 15:36:10 »
Counterpoints--
Best wishes to you. With this discovery, I hope and am confident that the right medications will provide the necessary therapy to control this condition and also provide relief for POIS. The news might sound disappointing, but I bet it opens the door to a lot better health in the future.
Sincerely,
Underwater

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3829 on: 11/03/2009 16:08:20 »
I intended to give my Day 3 report of my Tyrosine experiment, however in light of Counterpoint's news, i'm not sure i would feel right delivering the update to you all.

However, if people are okay with it, then i will provide the Day 3 update.

Thanks

Ambient

Ambient, thank you. I deleted my Day 1/ + endo post yesterday for that reason. I'll post Day 2 soon.

Counterpoints has contributed a lot to my success with his urging for testing and his upgrading of our forum.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3830 on: 11/03/2009 16:59:47 »
A small adenoma was found on my pituitary.
sorry to hear the bad news.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3831 on: 11/03/2009 17:46:23 »
Thanks everyone.  I'm not sure if this is the cause of any problems, or not.  Apparently up to 10% of the adult population have an 'incidentaloma' on the pituitary (e.g. a tumor that does not affect anything).  However, from my cortisol levels, and my symptoms, I was already suspicious about a pituitary problem.  I don't think it's cancerous, Demo, so it should be contained.  It could be causing endocrine imbalances, though, and interfering with my physiological response to orgasm (which, like most here, is quite severely abnormal).

Ambient, and everyone else, please keep on with the updates: I would certainly rather you did that didn't!

I'll stay in touch.  I think the next step might be getting an ACTH level check near the pituitary, through sinus sampling.  I have yet to have a scan of the abdomen, which I think is important.  I think I should also get a scan of my prostate.  In my case, orgasm does not always cause symptoms.  It usually does.  And when it does, I've noticed a burning sensation in my prostate area, plus persistent pressure.  When it doesn't, I don't experience this. The burning usually sets in before symptoms, so usually I have some idea about whether or not I'll be symptomatic before I actually feel any symptoms.

Also, cortisol may not be solely responsible for my POIS symptoms.  The pituitary both regulates sexual response and cortisol levels... so something affecting the pituitary could affect both, and both could be somewhat independent. It's hard to say with certainty though.

Best,
CP

PS.  I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary?  Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 01:10:57 by Counterpoints »

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Offline nsf

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3832 on: 11/03/2009 18:29:43 »
Counterpoints, I wish you quick, complete and painless recovery.

I have been following up my body responses post "O" and have been looking out for symptoms. I do have brain fog, worsened anxiety problems and high stress for few days after. I also have good amount of physical exhaustion and problems. The cortisol theory looks logical. Interestingly, I had come across an article that talks about "dormant virus" in the nerve endings that could wake up when immunity levels are low and cause various problems to the body. This seemed aligned to the physical symptoms I have had on POIS (Except that I could not see an explicit Shingles as in the article, but have had psoriasis attack few months ago). The attached link is: http://www.painfoundation.org/ManageYourPain/Shingles/PhysicalMental.pdf

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3833 on: 11/03/2009 19:22:26 »
Counterpoints, since you insist that we carry on, i would be delighted to provide my Day 3 report on the Tyrosine Experiment:

TYROSINE EXPERIMENT

DAY 3

It is the third day of my Tyrosine experiment, in which i take 1g of Tyrosine every morning and note its effect on my POIS symptoms, which ususally peak at around day 2 and last until around day 5 or 6.

Update: Since the usual Day 2 peak occurred with fewer symptoms, I am glad to report that today, much like yesterday, has passed with fewer POIS symptoms.

Symptoms avoided on Day 3:  No depression
                            No suicidal thoughts
                            Brain haze (experienced on day 2) is clearing.
                            No social withdrawal
                            Improved self-confidence
                            No (or hardly any) fatigue.
                            Sense of humour restored

Symptoms which remain are:  Slight inability to concentrate
                            Focus seems somewhat low.
                           

However, it is possible that these symptoms are consequences of the consistently high tyrosine in my system. Does anybody concur?

To summarise, improvements on Day 2 continue on Day 3. I feel that tomorrow i may possibly be entirely rid of POIS symptoms, in which case the span of my symptoms would have decreased from 5-6 days, to 3-4 days.

As i previously mentioned, i feel that more could be done to improve symptoms more quickly.

Also, it is my suspicion that my remaining symptoms could be related to high levels of Tyrosine. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you

Ambient
« Last Edit: 11/03/2009 19:24:39 by Ambient123 »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3834 on: 11/03/2009 20:04:53 »
Counterpoints, I wish you quick, complete and painless recovery.

I have been following up my body responses post "O" and have been looking out for symptoms. I do have brain fog, worsened anxiety problems and high stress for few days after. I also have good amount of physical exhaustion and problems. The cortisol theory looks logical. Interestingly, I had come across an article that talks about "dormant virus" in the nerve endings that could wake up when immunity levels are low and cause various problems to the body. This seemed aligned to the physical symptoms I have had on POIS (Except that I could not see an explicit Shingles as in the article, but have had psoriasis attack few months ago). The attached link is: http://www.painfoundation.org/ManageYourPain/Shingles/PhysicalMental.pdf


NSF---
Very interesting. I've always wondered if there was such a thing as a "dormant virus" that may be triggered by orgasm. My symptoms "are allergy like", and I hate the burning in groin area and sore lower back. It feels like a direct autoimmune response. My anxiety also spikes with sweating and paresthesia. Do you have any burning or irritation in groin or lower back? Do you have any other allergic type response? You mentioned Psoriasis. This is interesting. How do you sleep? Have you tried any antibiotics?

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3835 on: 11/03/2009 20:33:05 »
Counterpoints--
You too mention a burning sensation in prostate. I definitely have this. It drives me crazy. It comes on post orgasm AND during stress!! In 2007 I had it on and off all year; also well into 2008. I suspect that arousal and orgasm cause inflammation. I've watched it happen many times. This is why I lean to theories like autoimmune and dormant virus etc.
My thinking has undergone a complete shift since Dec last yr. I no longer think about neurotransmitters, but instead inflammatory response. In my case, I think the inflammatory response triggers hormone issues etc. But to tell any of my doctors this idea? How could I even experiment with this? Take Advil? I'm nearly allergic to everything. Load myself with blackberries, blueberries and onions? I may have to remain abstinent the rest of my life, which- thank god-probably isn't all that long anymore. Still, I can't imagine finishing my 60's and 70's with no sex at all. Eighties, Okay--------Misery needs some humor I think---

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3836 on: 11/03/2009 21:15:11 »

I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary?  Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.


I found the following and, hope you don't mind, I PM'd pyro to see if he can add anything to this:


I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....



Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.   

« Last Edit: 11/03/2009 21:19:08 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3837 on: 11/03/2009 22:04:43 »
Underwater,

You speak the agony language of POIS all too well! Keep the faith. I'm glad I did, though I don't know how, decade after decade!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3838 on: 11/03/2009 22:07:31 »
Ambient, congratulations on the sustained improvement!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3839 on: 11/03/2009 22:25:11 »
DAY 2: STILL A 'MIRACLE'!

After 30+ years' POIS agony, it's hard to believe that it's probably...finally over! According to my endocrinologist visit yesterday, I have little reason to believe otherwise.

Today is Day 2, and I feel terrific. No burning fingertips. No exhaustion. No severe brain fog. Just my silly old self.

Today, I rushed over to the piano to play. Got somewhat creative. That would NEVER, ever happen before.

The endocrinologist confirmed that my testosterone level increased, which I could "feel". It went from 166 to 255, a "low normal". If that doesn't go up by June, he might switch me to a "pump gel" to increase the dosage. Meanwhile I'm happy with it.

My endo is medically content with my testosterone + Levitra "cocktail" method of combatting POIS.

I wish everyone this same level of success! And you will find it if you don't give up. With this forum, we have all advanced phenomenally the state of understanding and possible cures for POIS. And they will continue progressing rapidly. Best wishes.

This is not medical advice. See your physician for the course of treatment that is right for you.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 17:53:58 by demografx »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3840 on: 12/03/2009 01:11:03 »
Demografx

Congratulations on your POIS success. We can all look to you for inspiration in the face of POIS. I intend to make an appointment with a doctor and suggest an Endocrinologist appointment to see if any hormones are out of balance as it were.

While the Tyrosine has somewhat improved my symptoms, i still feel that Fatigue and brain haze into Day 2 and part of 3. Do you think it could it be possible that my Testosterone levels are somewhat below normal? Just a thought, because i notice that POIS reduces my ability to interact physically. For example, i work in a kitchen part time, and POIS affects my efficiency in the job, eg i will be slower and less energetic when preparing dishes.

What do you think personally? As a POIS sufferer whose symptoms seemed to originate largely from Testosterone, you will understand this more than i do.

Thanks

Ambient

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3841 on: 12/03/2009 01:13:01 »

I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary?  Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.


I found the following and, hope you don't mind, I PM'd pyro to see if he can add anything to this:


I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....



Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.   


Thanks Demo. And congratulations!


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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3842 on: 12/03/2009 01:14:33 »
Underwater,

Advil only acts as anti-inflammatory for certain things.  You could try a drug like prednisone, just as a test.  It's not something you'd want to get in a habit of taking.....  but if you found out that a small dose every couple weeks, just before orgasm, cured your POIS, it's probably worth it!

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3843 on: 12/03/2009 01:40:32 »

I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary?  Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.


I found the following and, hope you don't mind, I PM'd pyro to see if he can add anything to this:


I found this on wikipedia.org  - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....



Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.   


I got the PM and I'm afraid there isn't much more I can say about the growth on my pituitary than what I've already said. 

I've just started using phosphatidyl serine and it seems to be working so far...better than Relora.  The symptoms are down to around 10% now.  But I've just started using it, and will see how long it'll last.

Demo - That's freakin awesome, congratulations!!  On my next visit to my doctor, which is next week, I will definitely try to get another test for testosterone. 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3844 on: 12/03/2009 02:54:44 »

Demo - That's freakin awesome, congratulations!!  On my next visit to my doctor, which is next week, I will definitely try to get another test for testosterone. 


Thanks, Pyro! Get as many breakdowns as you can, e.g., free T, bioavailable T, FSH, LH, SHGB.

Congrats on  your trials and reportage of Relora and PS!
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 06:36:26 by demografx »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3845 on: 12/03/2009 06:20:13 »
Ambient, only a blood test of your testosterone levels, preferably done by an endocrinologist, can determine your status. At the same time, you might as well check your other key hormones. There have been many posts here with discussions of what to test.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3846 on: 12/03/2009 13:41:52 »
Web site update :
For a lot of reasons I decided I won't do the web site with Aaron. I think he will. Maybe he'll explain what he wants to do in details. Even if I had already done the work on the links it was not the biggest part.

For the poll I wanted to do I'll make it myself separately if I see you'll use it. I don't want to work for nothing :).  Maybe some of you can PM me so I'll know if you'll answer the questions in the poll (you'll only have to choose between different answers, and you'll be able to enter your own question/answers). What I have already done was useful to see the amount of work needed. Thanks to all who will give their input!
« Last Edit: 18/03/2009 02:31:23 by martin88 »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3847 on: 12/03/2009 14:02:50 »
3 months ago I had an appointment for yesterday with a new doctor. I went there and I said I'm only here to have these tests and I gave my list. It was a 45-50 y old woman, she told me "no problem I'll give you all" !
I have a blood and a urine test for cortisol but I realize now it's not written 24h.., does anyone know if a urine test is always 24h ? otherwise I must go back. Then she started to investigate my case and concluded it's psychological, it's a depression . I had a NE two days ago and she saw me morally down. I said her I won't be like that in two weeks and she talked about bipolar disorder. I gave her the paper from Dr Waldinger and she started to read the begining and put it under other papers saying "I'm late I don't have time, I'll read it later" In fact I didn't really want to give her this paper  I wanted the tests only and I have them. So I think when you see a doctor, the first thing you say is very important.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3848 on: 12/03/2009 17:37:23 »
3 months ago I had an appointment for yesterday with a new doctor. I went there and I said I'm only here to have these tests and I gave my list. It was a 45-50 y old woman, she told me "no problem I'll give you all" !
I have a blood and a urine test for cortisol but I realize now it's not written 24h.., does anyone know if a urine test is always 24h ? otherwise I must go back. Then she started to investigate my case and concluded it's psychological, it's a depression . I had a NE two days ago and she saw me morally down. I said her I won't be like that in two weeks and she talked about bipolar disorder. I gave her the paper from Dr Waldinger and she started to read the begining and put it under other papers saying "I'm late I don't have time, I'll read it later" In fact I didn't really want to give her this paper  I wanted the tests only and I have them. So I think when you see a doctor, the first thing you say is very important.

That is very true.  Am thinking when i eventually get to see doctor, i am not going to mention pois, i will just mention the symptoms and see how the doctor reacts and what he or she says.  Whenever the orgasm is mentioned it seems as if that is when they want to start talking about that  uncle that gave you one to many gifts

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3849 on: 12/03/2009 17:43:09 »
First i want to show a "funny" study i found :
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090126082343.htm
http://www.livescience.com/health/090126-masturbation-prostate.html

I do no matter of this study but i only find this funny to see how one of famous argument used by anti-Pois people is seriously damaged now.  [;D]
The reality is scientific knowledge about orgasm is at its begining .
So deying Pois is absolutely stupid.
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Yesterday i had another orgasm (NE). Dispite I had few symptoms compared to my state 6 months ago(no sugar :) ) I realized how orgasm affects my immune system. I caught an intestinal flu so quickly and so easily... Of course I will never know I would have it without the 2 orgasms... So, I think it and I would like to give a chance to plants and why not Alpha20C. I don't know if it is available in my area.
It's not easy to find what is the starting point of Pois. Immune systeme is linked to hormones too (testo/cortisol <=> immune system for example). That's a complex mechanism...
Improve my immune system is my priority and sugar my favorite suspect.
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Hi, Pyro. Thanks for PS report and congratulations. I add it to database.
Thanks to all solutions testers. You can send me updates by PM if you want.
This could be the advantage of creating a new website to have an easy tool to follow all  suferers diary.





These scientist are truly confused on the same science daily page there is article that sexual activity reduces the posibility of prostate cancer.