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Hmmm, after my last post, hypothesizing a non-gap explanation, I just came across this, which inclines me back to the 'gap' account:Check out these pages:Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_privilege#Testeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testicular_immunologyThey both have information that could be relevant, but here is a key line:QuoteSperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body. This has been demonstrated in experiments using rats by Lansteiner (1899) and Metchinikoff (1900), mice and guinea pigs.So, this indicates that the skinprick results may not be all that indicative--an autoimmune response to sperm exposed to other parts of the body seems to be an entirely normal response! So it wouldn't necessarily be specifically characteristic of POIS sufferers. And, this has apparently been known since 1900!But, given that the desensitization seemed to be effective, this leads me back to a 'gap' theory: Most men would likely be 'allergic to their own semen.' But the immune system of most men is not exposed to their semen during ejaculation. In POIS sufferers, then, there would be some sort of structural gap or rupture, such that they are exposed. In this case, the allergic reaction does take place. But, the desensitization can help them so that the normal response to the abnormal exposure does not take place--even though the abnormal exposure would continue to take place.So, there seems to be something a little misleading in Dr. Waldinger's account--especially since he didn't try doing the skinprick test on a control group. According to the wikipedia article, it seems likely that a control group might also have had an allergic response to that test. But, as we've said before, the particular hypothesis that Dr. Waldinger gave is not really the most important part of this whole development--rather, the key part is that POIS is now known and acknowledged worldwide! And, if Dr. Waldinger or others later find that they need to adjust their explanation for POIS, that's not a big deal, and we will still have overcome the ignorance and the 'all in your heads' responses that we previously faced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_privilege#Testeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testicular_immunology
Sperm are immunogenic - that is they will cause an autoimmune reaction if transplanted from the testis into a different part of the body. This has been demonstrated in experiments using rats by Lansteiner (1899) and Metchinikoff (1900), mice and guinea pigs.
Just to add a potential opposing hypothesis, in contrast to the 'gap' one I proposed. If POIS sufferers do not have a persistent physical gap/rupture (i.e. they are structurally undamaged), then it would have to the case that their immunological response to semen is different than that of most normal people. (In contrast, with a persistent 'gap', POIS sufferers might have a normal immunological response, combined with an abnormal structural impairment that allows for contact with the 'normal' allergen.)If it is a matter of an 'abnormal' immunological response, then it could be something that stems from genetic predisposition, or it could have been acquired from environmental factors, or, there could have been a physical trauma at an earlier point in their lives that created a 'gap,' which then led to an allergic sensitivity, and that sensitivity persisted even after the 'gap' had physically healed. So, in all of these cases, the desensitization therapy seems like it could potentially be a good approach.
it is quite possible that injections of semen could cause the type of antibodies that attack and kill sperm like which is common in vasectomy patients. the sperm in the injections of semen could cause one to actually become sterile.
Quote from: lauracostis on 22/01/2011 19:09:55it is quite possible that injections of semen could cause the type of antibodies that attack and kill sperm like which is common in vasectomy patients. the sperm in the injections of semen could cause one to actually become sterile. Yes, in this regard, check out this study, which discusses damage that can be caused by the injection of guinea pigs with their own sperm/testis:http://www.reproduction-online.org/cgi/reprint/22/1/119.pdf
guthrie, you are spot on with your analysis about the possibility of sperm and or semen causing a positive skinprick test on a large percent of a normal control population. i have been thinking the exact same thing since i saw that study. it is quite possible that injections of semen could cause the type of antibodies that attack and kill sperm like which is common in vasectomy patients. the sperm in the injections of semen could cause one to actually become sterile. when someone gets a vasectomy the vas deferens are tied up and left floating freely in the scrotum sac. after just a little while the vas deferens actually rupture from the pressure of sperm being injected through them from the testis. so now every time you reach orgasm the sperm shoots through the ruptured vas defefens and just freely spills inside your scrotum sac. the body now has to clean up this large mess and has to employ various white blood cells to engulf and clean up this huge amount of debris. the body now develops antibodies to combat these invaders, but as we know these types of antibodies in people with vasectomies don't cause any physiologic symptoms, they just attack the sperm and cause low sperm counts or sterility.
Quote from: Guthrie on 22/01/2011 19:55:47Quote from: lauracostis on 22/01/2011 19:09:55it is quite possible that injections of semen could cause the type of antibodies that attack and kill sperm like which is common in vasectomy patients. the sperm in the injections of semen could cause one to actually become sterile. Yes, in this regard, check out this study, which discusses damage that can be caused by the injection of guinea pigs with their own sperm/testis:http://www.reproduction-online.org/cgi/reprint/22/1/119.pdfAnd, in the same regard, this article is somewhat scary!http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2007/02/13/vasectomy-may-lead-to-dementia-from-autoimmune-brain-damage/
Quote from: Guthrie on 22/01/2011 20:00:44Quote from: Guthrie on 22/01/2011 19:55:47Quote from: lauracostis on 22/01/2011 19:09:55it is quite possible that injections of semen could cause the type of antibodies that attack and kill sperm like which is common in vasectomy patients. the sperm in the injections of semen could cause one to actually become sterile. Yes, in this regard, check out this study, which discusses damage that can be caused by the injection of guinea pigs with their own sperm/testis:http://www.reproduction-online.org/cgi/reprint/22/1/119.pdfAnd, in the same regard, this article is somewhat scary!http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2007/02/13/vasectomy-may-lead-to-dementia-from-autoimmune-brain-damage/I am really worried now. These are EXACTLY the types of cognitive symptoms I get. I am sure this is autoimmune now. My only comfort is that we seem to recover from the aphasia; it is not chronic. Maybe no 'permanent' damage is being done?I think you're right now, semen could be mixing with blood somewhere along the way to ejaculation, causing this reaction. This also supports the 'subsequent ejaculation' recovery that we've sometimes noticed...