[smart (OP)]

Climate engineering is a mainstream idea.
Do you understand that isn't the same as saying it's actually happening?

Clandestine geoengineering activity is a real (observable) phenomenon. How can you possibly understand climate change if you don't understand the necessity of observation to validate a scientific hypothesis?

[chiralSPO]

Climate engineering is a mainstream idea.
Do you understand that isn't the same as saying it's actually happening?

Clandestine geoengineering activity is a real (observable) phenomenon. How can you possibly understand climate change if you don't understand the necessity of observation to validate a scientific hypothesis?

We don't question the validity of your observation, we question the validity of your interpretation.

I could say that it is easily observable that the sun goes around the Earth. I literally see it every single day--how could you even question something that is so simple and so easily observed? Well, it turns out that, while there is nothing wrong with my eyes, what I think I am seeing is not really happening--it turns out that what I observed is the rotation of the Earth, and this can be proven by taking into account evidence that is slightly more difficult to observe, and doing a slightly more complex analysis of the observed data.

You claim to see jets depositing trails of chemicals designed to manipulate the global climate. I don't doubt that you see trails behind the jets (I see them too), but I don't agree with your analysis of the composition of these trails, why they exist, and what their effect on the environment actually is.

[Bored chemist]

Climate engineering is a mainstream idea.
Do you understand that isn't the same as saying it's actually happening?

Clandestine geoengineering activity is a real (observable) phenomenon. How can you possibly understand climate change if you don't understand the necessity of observation to validate a scientific hypothesis?

Do you remember that you utterly failed to show that the trails left behind planes are anything but water?
If you observe water, but claim that it's unicorn pee then use it as evidence of unicorns, you have left science behind and you are on a flight of fancy.
Well, until you show that the trails are not water, you have not shown any evidence of anything other than boring trails of water. As I said before, you have seen your breath "steam" on a cold day.
Why do you say these trails are anything different?

[smart (OP)]

We don't question the validity of your observation, we question the validity of your interpretation.

My interpretations are based on scientific evidences that clandestine geoengineering activity is still controversial
and poorly understood.

I could say that it is easily observable that the sun goes around the Earth. I literally see it every single day--how could you even question something that is so simple and so easily observed? Well, it turns out that, while there is nothing wrong with my eyes, what I think I am seeing is not really happening--it turns out that what I observed is the rotation of the Earth, and this can be proven by taking into account evidence that is slightly more difficult to observe, and doing a slightly more complex analysis of the observed data.

Clandestine geoengineering activity is not easily observable. Seeing them is actually difficult because they alter clouds composition using CCN particles.

You claim to see jets depositing trails of chemicals designed to manipulate the global climate. I don't doubt that you see trails behind the jets (I see them too), but I don't agree with your analysis of the composition of these trails, why they exist, and what their effect on the environment actually is.

If we didnt started to believe in science we would still be hiding in our caves. My analysis is a balanced interpretation of the scientific data on the risks of solar geoengineering for the environment.

[smart (OP)]

Do you remember that you utterly failed to show that the trails left behind planes are anything but water?
If you observe water, but claim that it's unicorn pee then use it as evidence of unicorns, you have left science behind and you are on a flight of fancy.
Well, until you show that the trails are not water, you have not shown any evidence of anything other than boring trails of water. As I said before, you have seen your breath "steam" on a cold day.
Why do you say these trails are anything different?

Many things are under investigation.

btw, you can observe easily that the water molecular properties differ from a engineered nanoparticle.

[chiralSPO]

btw, you can observe easily that the water molecular properties differ from a engineered nanoparticle.

Yes, exactly! And the properties of these trails are more consistent with water than with nanoparticles.

[Bored chemist]

Do you remember that you utterly failed to show that the trails left behind planes are anything but water?
If you observe water, but claim that it's unicorn pee then use it as evidence of unicorns, you have left science behind and you are on a flight of fancy.
Well, until you show that the trails are not water, you have not shown any evidence of anything other than boring trails of water. As I said before, you have seen your breath "steam" on a cold day.
Why do you say these trails are anything different?

Many things are under investigation.

btw, you can observe easily that the water molecular properties differ from a engineered nanoparticle.

All that rather misses the point.
There is no evidence that the stuff is anything but water.
Do you not understand that?
Until you actually show it isn't just water, you might as well be saying it's unicorn piss.

[alancalverd]

Climate change is perhaps the most obvious evidence that clandestine geoengineering activity is altering the weather and Earth biota.

The biggest climate change in recorded history occured in the 11th century when, for the first time, European architecture suddenly adopted indoor fireplaces with permanent chimneys throughout the entire continent, and we have accounts of frozen rivers in England and France becoming so common that they were used for regular entertainment, transport and commerce. 

So was it the CIA or the Inquisition at work behind the scenes? And how did they manage to keep the jet engine a secret for so long - they are very noisy! 

[Bored chemist]

Clandestine geoengineering activity is not easily observable.

Climate change is perhaps the most obvious evidence that clandestine geoengineering activity is altering the weather and Earth biota.

Clandestine geoengineering activity is a real (observable) phenomenon.

Obviously, it's not obvious whether it's obvious or not easily observed.

[smart (OP)]

Indeed, climate change is hardly perceptible to the naked eyes. I say that solar geoengineering is observable from a long-range distance but it is visually challenging to identify engineered nanoparticles from water vapor. Anyways, natural water vapor can be compared to aerosolized nanoparticles and I think both compounds can creates clouds. The dishonesty is to suggest all planes exhibit this effect depending on the weather/temperature. Cloud seeding with silver iodide is real technology to alter clouds composition. Thats why geoengineering is mainstream: The applications of cloud seeding is a patented technology. 

[ProjectSailor]

Could you volunteer for a close range inspection of chemtrails please? this information is vital to the scientific community.. We can all do long range observations by just looking up.. I feel you have much to offer in this area of scientific investigations.

Cloud seeding is a process, but you suggest that this is done to forward some hidden agenda, whereas I do not believe it is actually common place anywhere since the effects would need to be studied on a long term to see the impacts, not done on a whim by clandestine organisations.

Climate change IS visible to the naked eye, by observing the change of the ice caps, growth of trees and habitation of species to name a few.

[smart (OP)]

Could you volunteer for a close range inspection of chemtrails please? this information is vital to the scientific community.. We can all do long range observations by just looking up.. I feel you have much to offer in this area of scientific investigations.

Unfortunately my investigation is limited to observational study only. Long range observation of clandestine geoengineering activity is possible.

Cloud seeding is a process, but you suggest that this is done to forward some hidden agenda, whereas I do not believe it is actually common place anywhere since the effects would need to be studied on a long term to see the impacts, not done on a whim by clandestine organisations.

It is still a new and controversial activity to fix climate change through stratospheric aerosol injection. Solar geoengineering is a clandestine military initiative of Bush/Obama legacy.

Climate change IS visible to the naked eye, by observing the change of the ice caps, growth of trees and habitation of species to name a few.

I agree. You can records observations of climatic changes etc however nobody do records the biological impacts of chemtrails on human health. Why? I guess the effects of clandestine geoengineering activity are biologically important and controversial. 

Thanks for your input.

[Bored chemist]

Could you volunteer for a close range inspection of chemtrails please? this information is vital to the scientific community.. We can all do long range observations by just looking up.. I feel you have much to offer in this area of scientific investigations.

Unfortunately my investigation is limited to observational study only. Long range observation of clandestine geoengineering activity is possible.

Cloud seeding is a process, but you suggest that this is done to forward some hidden agenda, whereas I do not believe it is actually common place anywhere since the effects would need to be studied on a long term to see the impacts, not done on a whim by clandestine organisations.

It is still a new and controversial activity to fix climate change through stratospheric aerosol injection. Solar geoengineering is a clandestine military initiative of Bush/Obama legacy.

Climate change IS visible to the naked eye, by observing the change of the ice caps, growth of trees and habitation of species to name a few.

I agree. You can records observations of climatic changes etc however nobody do records the biological impacts of chemtrails on human health. Why? I guess the effects of clandestine geoengineering activity are biologically important and controversial. 

Thanks for your input.

"Long range observation of clandestine geoengineering activity is possible."
How?
How can you show that the trails left by planes are anything but water?

"It is still a new and controversial activity to fix climate change through stratospheric aerosol injection."
And that's why nobody is risking doing it.

"Solar geoengineering is a clandestine military initiative of Bush/Obama legacy. "
Why can't you understand that making a statement like that- without any supporting evidence- is improper on a science web site?

"Climate change IS visible to the naked eye, by observing the change of the ice caps, growth of trees and habitation of species to name a few."
Yes, but it's not geoengineering that causes climate change.
Why do you keep muddling the two different things?
As I said, babies don't geoengineer their nappies.

[smart (OP)]

http://www.cfr.org/projects/world/geoengineering-workshop-on-unilateral-planetary-scale-geoengineering/pr1364

This paper is dated from 2008, the year Obama won US the presidential election.

[ProjectSailor]

I only looked at one slide show... looked like it was put together by a 12 year old...

Sorry to be disperging guys.. but if i was shown that in any conference I went to I would laugh and walk out. I mean the sun even has a smiley face on it...

That sort of thing should be left for the attendees to doodle in on their handouts!

[Bored chemist]

http://www.cfr.org/projects/world/geoengineering-workshop-on-unilateral-planetary-scale-geoengineering/pr1364

This paper is dated from 2008, the year Obama won US the presidential election.

So, in a year when something happened, some people got together to talk about the possibility of doing something, and the problems with doing it.
So what?
It's not evidence that anyone did anything but talk.

So, once again, where's the evidence?

[smart (OP)]

"So, in a year when something happened, some people got together to talk about the possibility of doing something, and the problems with doing it."

The CFR organisation is not a simple group of socially-engaged nerds. Don't understimate the word "unilateral" in their research workshops on geoengineering.

[Bored chemist]

"So, in a year when something happened, some people got together to talk about the possibility of doing something, and the problems with doing it."

The CFR organisation is not a simple group of socially-engaged nerds. Don't understimate the word "unilateral" in their research workshops on geoengineering.

If they included the word "experimental" or "practical" then they might be evidence.
They don't.
You still have not shown any evidence that geoengineering is actually happening.
Presumably that's because you can't.
Why not just admit it and keep quiet?

[smart (OP)]

If they included the word "experimental" or "practical" then they might be evidence.
They don't.

The word "unilateral" is appropriate to describe how they experiment with geoengineering.

[smart (OP)]

You still have not shown any evidence that geoengineering is actually happening.

No.

My local observations and comments on this forum are evidences of clandestine geoengineering activity. This is another example of your striking dishonesty toward my geoengineering research on this site.