[EmmaHildyard (OP)]

Clive has asked...

Does living next to a mobile phone tower (which radiates downwards, not outward) cause health problems due to cellular disruption and cause an increase in reactive oxygen species in cells?

What do you think?

[alancalverd]

What would be the point of radiating downward?

The greater exposure to radiation comes from mobile handsets, not the repeater towers.

[CliveG]

The high density of cell phone devices and the exponential increase in usage time means that each tower can only cover a small area. Large towers (the 25m one next to us) will be placed every 200-300 houses (Telco statement to us). They no longer have directional antennae, so the pattern is almost circular and they are angled downward. The radiation in our house is the highest in the area (10 meters from the base of the mast). And confirmed by Telco measurements.

Each tower is supposed to communicate with hundreds of cell phones simultaneously. To do this, it has multiple antennae and each antenna time-slots 8 phones at a time. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The power is high to establish connection and then drops to suit. A cell phone only transmits one-eighth of the time and drops to low power once connected. I use my phone about 20 minutes a day on speaker mode.

The non-stop pulsed power in our house where I live and work is designated by some scientists and bodies as hazardous to cellular biology. The pulsing causes the "Frey"effect of body tissue heating and cooling rapidly.

I have a directional meter. Our house readings are about 3000 uW/sqm peak (about 1000 rms). The cell phone is about 250 peak while ringing at a distance of about 0.5 meter. The power density and duration is not comparable.

[alancalverd]

The Control of Electromagnetic Fields at Work Act puts the health effects threshold at 50 W/m^2 average. This can be approached by a 5W handset held to the ear, but 3 mW/m^2 peak would not raise any official concern.

[CliveG]

Your statement as presented is quite correct - officially. The levels are based on short term heating effects.

But it seems the science is being overlooked, which is why I posed the question on this site.

In 1994, Henry Lai showed that the brain cells of rats suffered DNA damage at levels considered safe. Since then other studies have confirmed this.

The brain cell and nerve cells let sodium in and out to cause electrical currents to the other side. Calcium channels cause a change in cellular activity that increases reactive oxygen species which are problematic for DNA damage. Even ionizing radiation does it some of it's damage through production of these chemicals in the cell. The EH Trust has a list of studies

Other studies show that even if there is not damage, there can be neurological effects at low levels. Living cells use electrically sensitive chemical channels in the wall of the cell membrane to interact and communicate. The Bioinitiative chart shows studies indicating that levels of between 6 and 60 uW/sqm (0.0006 and 0.006 uW/sqcm) there are significant neurological effects.

[alancalverd]

No, the UK exposure limit is based on occupational exposure at 8 hours per day.

If there is a significant neural effect, you will know it. I have seen reports of squid axon response at half-wave resonance and we use very powerful pulsed magnetic fields to test for nerve damage, but the routine use of 25 kW RF generators in MRI clinics seems not to harm the staff and only occasionally to fry the patients.

[Bored chemist]

The pulsing causes the "Frey"effect

Our house readings are about 3000 uW/sqm peak

" In Frey's tests, a repetition rate of 50 Hz was used, with pulse width between 10–70 microseconds. The perceived loudness was found to be linked to the peak power density, instead of average power density. At 1.245 GHz, the peak power density for perception was below 80 mW/cm2."
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect#Research_in_the_U.S.

So you are exposed to 3mw/sq m
And the effect is noticed at 80 mW/cm2
There are 10,000 cm2 in a m2
so you are about 5 orders of magnitude below the threshold for the effect you mention.

The Bioinitiative chart shows studies indicating that levels of between 6 and 60 uW/sqm (0.0006 and 0.006 uW/sqcm) there are significant neurological effects.

It would be interesting to see how much power people emit (as black bodies at 37 C) over the microwave range.

[evan_au]

each antenna time-slots 8 phones at a time. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year

When a phone is idle, the base station just checks in with it occasionally to check it is still there, and to check that it hasn't got any data to send.

When everyone goes to sleep/work/school/shopping etc, the number of active devices in the cell drops, and the transmitted power drops further.

So the greatest exposure is when the phone is active (eg on a voice call, or downloading a new software release over the mobile network). And since you are closest to the active phone, you are the most exposed.

With 5G mobile using "MIMO" antennas, transmission is very directional, so most of the radiation that you receive will be aimed at the phone in your pocket. It doesn't matter how many other phones are active, as their transmissions are aimed at those phones, not your phone.

If you are worried about it (needlessly, IMHO), it is best to download big files (eg new versions of the OS) via your WiFi - even better if you put the phone next to your WiFi point, while you make breakfast in another room...
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-user_MIMO

[CliveG]

Some interesting answers. I will respond to one at a time over the next couple of days.

The Frey effect experiments chose certain parameters to demonstrate that when people claimed to hear microwaves that it was not their imagination. That does not rule out similar effects at different powers, carrier signal frequencies and pulsing rates. It does not rule out microscopic heating and expansion of tissue such as brain cells.

A marked increase in tinnitus was the first symptom my wife and I experienced in the first two months when exposed to the 3,000 uW/sqm. It was very noticeable to me that my ability to hear dropped quickly and considerably. I had to ask my mates to repeat themselves when sitting at the monthly lunch meeting with some old school friends. I am 70 years old but have always had excellent hearing.

When I went to a bush resort for a few days, I joined a meditation class where we were asked to listen to sounds around us. A clock ticking, a bird chirping and so on. I was not aware of any tinnitus. When I drove back into the city I noticed the tinnitus coming back. I will have to repeat this experiment to check it.

In the months that the tower was powered, I lost all (4 of them lasting 2-4 decades) metal fillings in my mouth due to the tooth with the filling cracking. I had a knee replacement recently and there were two days when the healing was impaired to the extent I could no longer walk on it. When I realized it could be the radiation and shielded my leg, it improved over 36 hours to where it was before. I also realized that I had spent those two days in the lounge where the radiation was higher because I had not yet shielded that area. Could continuous microscopic differential expansion and contraction be the culprit?

The Cuban and Chinese embassy staff attacks mimicked mild concussion. They had audio effects as well. Microwave is considered as a possibility although various interests try to downplay (even ridicule) that possibility.

Johannesburg has a huge increase in cell towers. And 5G appears to be in use with hundreds if not thousands of towers. Every commercial rooftop has many antennae. They are sprouting by the day. Poles every 2 to 3 hundred meters along the roads. Among the reasons for the growth are 1) there was never a good copper network, 2) cables get stolen, 3) we have very high cell phone tariffs, 4) there is almost no regulation. So we have 2G, 3G, 4G and now 5G all broadcasting.

[alancalverd]

My father was deputed to investigate the noise spectrum from a new electricity substation, in response to a barrage of complaints from the neighbours. After a week he returned with some delightful tapes of the dawn chorus and not a hint of mains hum, as the station had not yet been connected to the grid.

[CliveG]

My father was deputed to investigate the noise spectrum from a new electricity substation, in response to a barrage of complaints from the neighbours. After a week he returned with some delightful tapes of the dawn chorus and not a hint of mains hum, as the station had not yet been connected to the grid.

This has hints of a delightful urban legend. While it may be true, there are a number of cases where it is not.

I got to know of a case where there was a law suit. The company claimed that the cell tower had not been powered on for two weeks, and this has been quoted by the company for many years.  It would seem to those in the know that the tower was indeed on for those two weeks and the claim was settled with a non-disclosure agreement.

In our case, in January this year, the tower was supposed to be off yet at 4 pm my wife developed a "tower headache" and told me at 6 pm when I got home. She hardly ever gets headaches for any reason. I measured the output with my meter and it was at full power (3,000 uW/sqm peak in our kitchen) and stayed that way for 36 hours. At 11 am, I had taken a reading to check it was off and it was. (Normal tower off reading was less that 4 uW/sqm in any direction).

The cell company produced an electrical consumption record showing no consumption during that week. They were not too smart because they added the energy consumption to a "test day" 10 days later, where the company and I agreed that the tower be powered for only 1 hours for testing. So the test day had a reading greater that any normal "full power" days which is impossible - even with battery charging which caused an additional 1/2 hour of power output on the test day. There being no power for days before and after the test day.

A worker I employed laying shielding in our ceiling complained of a similar headache and dizziness on the last days. He said "You do not understand until it happens to you".

I can get the same headache if exposed for more than an hour. The problem is that it seems the continuous exposure over six months has sensitized me and I get the headache even with about 20-60 uW/sqm.

Some tower complaints are about the noise from the generators when city power is down, and some complaints are noise from the cooling fans.

[alancalverd]

Seems as though you have a strong case for demonstrating blind correlation, and worth investigating.

[evan_au]

a knee replacement ...Could continuous microscopic differential expansion and contraction be the culprit?

At a received power of 3mW/m², your knee could absorb at most 0.1mW of electromagnetic energy.
- The blood supply to your knee can easily take away this much heat.

If you go for a walk in the garden, sunlight hitting your knee could be as much as 10W.
- The blood supply to your knee can easily take away this much heat.
- I suggest that you treat a walk in the garden as a regular part of your physiotherapy.

[Bored chemist]

In the months that the tower was powered, I lost all (4 of them lasting 2-4 decades) metal fillings in my mouth due to the tooth with the filling cracking. I had a knee replacement recently and there were two days when the healing was impaired to the extent I could no longer walk on it. When I realized it could be the radiation and shielded my leg, it improved over 36 hours to where it was before. I also realized that I had spent those two days in the lounge where the radiation was higher because I had not yet shielded that area. Could continuous microscopic differential expansion and contraction be the culprit?

Reminds me of this

from about 55 seconds.

[alancalverd]

This has hints of a delightful urban legend.

I still have the tapes.

[CliveG]

This has hints of a delightful urban legend.

I still have the tapes.

One has to get to the truth behind the story. Here is a possible scenario.

As a young engineer, I was tasked with testing distribution substations before handover. This was often done months before the station was put into service. My first one was for an iron ore mine at Sishen in SA. After doing all my tests and verifying everything was functional, the consulting engineer arrived and asked me to switch on the transformer and manually take the tap changer through from top to bottom and then bottom to top. I said that the incoming line was already 10% over voltage and the automatic feature would drive the tap changer to put the full primary winding in circuit.

He insisted and I called the office who called the manufacturer who said I could do it, but the transformer could take it for 30 minutes and no more. When the tap changer got the point where the least amount of windings were in circuit, the racket this huge transformer made was frightening. It seemed it would vibrate off the concrete foundations. The substation shook and the windows rattled as the magnetic flux flowed out into the steel walls.

Had this happened to the substation your father visited, the residents would have been alarmed and complaining. Their windows and houses would have rattled never mind the hum. The complaint would go up the chain to upper management who would order an investigation. Down the chain, a middle manager would order a sound test be done. By this time the station was dead and waiting. And such departments do not talk to each other. Your Dad does the tapes. He can hear the substation is dead. No hum. No high voltage corona or crackle. Just his chuckling (not recorded).

And an urban legend is born.

And yes, in this case the Electricity Board IS to blame.

[Bored chemist]

While it may be true, there are a number of cases where it is not.

That makes no sense.
There's only 1 case.
It's the case where Alan's dad was there.

Here's another story...
When I bought my house there was a substation at the foot of the garden (since decommissioned + removed).
I was delighted because it kept the price down slightly.
Interestingly, it didn't feed my street- it supplied the next street along.
I have heard that they do that deliberately. The extra 100 yards or so of cable acts as a (rather low) resistance which limits the potential  fault current.

[CliveG]

In the months that the tower was powered, I lost all (4 of them lasting 2-4 decades) metal fillings in my mouth due to the tooth with the filling cracking. I had a knee replacement recently and there were two days when the healing was impaired to the extent I could no longer walk on it. When I realized it could be the radiation and shielded my leg, it improved over 36 hours to where it was before. I also realized that I had spent those two days in the lounge where the radiation was higher because I had not yet shielded that area. Could continuous microscopic differential expansion and contraction be the culprit?

Reminds me of this
   You tube video
from about 55 seconds.

Thanks for the good laugh. Love British humour. Had UK and US shows in Zimbabwe where I was born and raised.

This too has relevance. Toxic industries have a history of creating scientific doubt: Tobacco (the ones who perfected the art and are still going strong); leaded gasoline/petrol; radium paint; thalidomide; Vioxx. Global warming is a recent one as is talcum powder.

They are called the "Merchants of Doubt" (there is a book by that title), and the cell phone industry is now a "Master of Doubt" as well as a "Master of Hiding the Truth". Parody and ridicule are among the tools used to good effect.

In South African there are 10 corporate headquarters. Not one has any towers close to them and none have antennae on their buildings. One such building had massive numbers of them a few years ago and they took them all off. The headquarters of ICNIRP (the global limit recommending body that the UK follows for public and occupational exposure) and that of the WHO radiation group have readings of about 2 uW/sqm.

Does that suggest that they KNOW the dangers? I think so. What ever I may think of their ethics, they are not stupid.

The industry cannot get insurance of any health claims the may arise in the future. (Note: the coal industry just became un-insurable.)

[alancalverd]

Had this happened to the substation your father visited,

It didn't.

[Bored chemist]

Does that suggest that they KNOW the dangers?

No.