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  4. what is temperature?
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what is temperature?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #960 on: 10/09/2024 08:13:30 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2024 23:06:37
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2024 16:28:39
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2024 11:29:55
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/09/2024 13:53:52
The question is, which object is the hottest?
The electrons in the LED with an energy of a few electron volts, corresponding to a temperature of tens of thousands of kelvin.
Does it melt?
How the F*** do you expect an electron to melt?
How could you think that it referred to electron instead of LED?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #961 on: 10/09/2024 09:18:11 »
How do you think LEDs work? Magic or electrons?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #962 on: 10/09/2024 12:18:59 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 08:13:30
How could you think that it referred to electron instead of LED?
Because it's totally obvious to anyone that the LED doesn't melt.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #963 on: 10/09/2024 13:15:45 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 10/09/2024 12:18:59
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 08:13:30
How could you think that it referred to electron instead of LED?
Because it's totally obvious to anyone that the LED doesn't melt.

What's the temperature of the LED?
Why it's different from the temperature of the electrons?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #964 on: 10/09/2024 14:10:06 »
Most LEDs work in the range 250 -  350K, with efficiency decreasing outside that range.

The working temperature of the chip represents the kinetic energy of the nuclei, which account for most of the mass of the substrate material and hence most of the thermal energy of the LED itself. The heat sink and casing are (or should be) in near-equilibrium with the substrate.

Within the chip, the active electrons responsible for light emission obviously have mean energies of the order of visible photons, 2 - 4 eV.    1 eV  ≈ 11,605 K
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #965 on: 10/09/2024 18:29:17 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 13:15:45
Quote from: Bored chemist on 10/09/2024 12:18:59
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 08:13:30
How could you think that it referred to electron instead of LED?
Because it's totally obvious to anyone that the LED doesn't melt.

What's the temperature of the LED?
Why it's different from the temperature of the electrons?
FFS!
How many times?
The electrons do not, in this instance, have a well defined temperature.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #966 on: 10/09/2024 22:19:19 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 10/09/2024 18:29:17
The electrons do not, in this instance, have a well defined temperature.
Then why did you write this statement?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2024 11:29:55
The electrons in the LED with an energy of a few electron volts, corresponding to a temperature of tens of thousands of kelvin.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #967 on: 10/09/2024 22:22:56 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/09/2024 14:10:06
Within the chip, the active electrons responsible for light emission obviously have mean energies of the order of visible photons, 2 - 4 eV.    1 eV  ≈ 11,605 K
Why don't they cause the LED to melt down?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #968 on: 11/09/2024 10:40:07 »
Because the kinetic energy transfer between an electron and a nucleus is very weak.

A poor analogy: collect the sparks from a grinding wheel in a bucket of water. The sparks are at about 800 - 1000 K but you won't get the water to boil.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #969 on: 11/09/2024 10:54:27 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 22:19:19
Quote from: Bored chemist on 10/09/2024 18:29:17
The electrons do not, in this instance, have a well defined temperature.
Then why did you write this statement?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/09/2024 11:29:55
The electrons in the LED with an energy of a few electron volts, corresponding to a temperature of tens of thousands of kelvin.

To remind you that not all energy is temperature.

Did you not notice that I said the energy corresponded to a temperature, not that the electrons were at that temperature?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #970 on: 11/09/2024 10:57:59 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 22:22:56
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/09/2024 14:10:06
Within the chip, the active electrons responsible for light emission obviously have mean energies of the order of visible photons, 2 - 4 eV.    1 eV  ≈ 11,605 K
Why don't they cause the LED to melt down?
Because someone has cleverly arranged things so that it's more likely that they will lose that energy by emitting light than that they will transfer it to thermal energy,
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #971 on: 11/09/2024 17:11:08 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 11/09/2024 10:54:27
Did you not notice that I said the energy corresponded to a temperature, not that the electrons were at that temperature?
How are they correlated?
Is it proportionally? Or inversely proportional? Or another type of correlation?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #972 on: 11/09/2024 17:40:50 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 11/09/2024 10:57:59
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 22:22:56
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/09/2024 14:10:06
Within the chip, the active electrons responsible for light emission obviously have mean energies of the order of visible photons, 2 - 4 eV.    1 eV  ≈ 11,605 K
Why don't they cause the LED to melt down?
Because someone has cleverly arranged things so that it's more likely that they will lose that energy by emitting light than that they will transfer it to thermal energy,
How is it done?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #973 on: 11/09/2024 18:43:01 »
Try

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #974 on: 12/09/2024 14:37:40 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/09/2024 18:43:01
Try

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm
Quote
LEDs generate very little heat, relatively speaking. A much higher percentage of the electrical energy is going directly to generating light, which cuts down the electricity demands considerably.
But when the light produced by LED hit the paper, it burns.
In the video, there is a segment where the light is reflected back to LED using a mirror. The LED breakdown as a result.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #975 on: 12/09/2024 14:44:18 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/09/2024 17:11:08
Quote from: Bored chemist on 11/09/2024 10:54:27
Did you not notice that I said the energy corresponded to a temperature, not that the electrons were at that temperature?
How are they correlated?
Is it proportionally? Or inversely proportional? Or another type of correlation?
I'm sure I already told you about the equipartition principle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipartition_theorem
Try reading it again.
Maybe take notes if that helps you remember stuff.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #976 on: 12/09/2024 14:46:11 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 11/09/2024 17:40:50
Quote from: Bored chemist on 11/09/2024 10:57:59
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/09/2024 22:22:56
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/09/2024 14:10:06
Within the chip, the active electrons responsible for light emission obviously have mean energies of the order of visible photons, 2 - 4 eV.    1 eV  ≈ 11,605 K
Why don't they cause the LED to melt down?
Because someone has cleverly arranged things so that it's more likely that they will lose that energy by emitting light than that they will transfer it to thermal energy,
How is it done?
That's really not a subject that is suitable for a discussion site. It's a lot of technical information.
Are you able to use a search engine and ask how LEDs are made?
(Don't use AI; they produce dross)
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #977 on: 12/09/2024 14:46:46 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/09/2024 14:37:40
But when the light produced by LED hit the paper, it burns.
Why would it not?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #978 on: 12/09/2024 16:44:08 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/09/2024 14:37:40
But when the light produced by LED hit the paper, it burns.
In the video, there is a segment where the light is reflected back to LED using a mirror. The LED breakdown as a result.
What do you expect? Photons deliver energy to the absorber.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #979 on: 15/09/2024 11:12:06 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 12/09/2024 16:44:08
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/09/2024 14:37:40
But when the light produced by LED hit the paper, it burns.
In the video, there is a segment where the light is reflected back to LED using a mirror. The LED breakdown as a result.
What do you expect? Photons deliver energy to the absorber.
The question is, why the materials in the LED didn't absorb the light during the emission, but did absorb the light after reflection by the mirror?
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