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  4. what is temperature?
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what is temperature?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1180 on: 15/12/2024 21:35:06 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/12/2024 07:08:59
Quote from: Bored chemist on 14/12/2024 23:27:48
I see that, for example, you still  think that quoting chatGPT is somehow useful.
By asking them the same question at different times, we can see how they learn. Or how mainstream science shift its paradigm over time.
That's nothing to do with the topic, is it?
Thermodynamics hasn't changed much in 50 years.
The definition of temperature is essentially even older.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1181 on: 16/12/2024 07:56:20 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 15/12/2024 21:35:06
That's nothing to do with the topic, is it?
It is. AI models will be the first reference for most people to get their information when they need it. Some of them might care enough to cross check the answers with other sources. But most of them won't, especially when the stake is not considered too high.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1182 on: 16/12/2024 08:00:41 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 15/12/2024 21:35:06
Thermodynamics hasn't changed much in 50 years.
The definition of temperature is essentially even older.
The term temperature is also used in fields other than thermodynamics, such as statistical mechanics, telecommunications, photography, and information science. It will be important to know their differences and similarities.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1183 on: 16/12/2024 09:02:04 »
How the heck Probability Crept into Physics?
Quote
The interpretation of probability is a disputed topic in philosophy. But shouldn't physics, as an objective study of nature, be devoid of terms like probability at the fundamental level? Surprisingly, this is not the case. Probability plays a fundamental role even at the level of classical physics. In this video, we explore how Maxwell and Boltzmann brought probability to explain thermodynamic concepts such as entropy, pressure, and temperature. Since then, physics hasn't been the same.

Timestamps:

0:00 - 0:27 Intro
0:28 - 1:07 Paradox of perfume
1:08 - 1:57 Clausius's mean free path approach
1:58 - 3:33 Maxwell's velocity probability distribution
3:44 - 5:08 Weird prediction of the theory
5:09 - 5:38 Influence on Boltzmann
5:39 - 6:09 Prof. Sean Carroll explains the arrow of time
6:10 - 6:45 Boltzmann's H theorem of entropy
6:46 - 8:50 Prof. Cedric Villani explains the formula
8:51 - 9:35 Loschmidt's paradox
9:36 - 10:02 Conclusion

Some interesting comments.
Quote
Planck's approach to Blackbody Radiation was to analyze the entropy as a function of energy.  To make both high-frequency and low-frequency data consistent with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, he included an additional "guess" term proportional to the frequency (hf);  this results in Planck's Law which is strictly Classical.  Planck's subsequent application of Boltzmann's Statistical Mechanics to justify his guess then led to his revolutionary conclusion that the material of the walls emit and absorb radiation in discrete quanta.  A paper titled "Planck?s Route to the Black Body Radiation Formula and Quantization" by Michael Fowler (7/25/2008) gives a nice discussion.  "Theoretical Concepts in Physics: An Alternative View of Theoretical Reasoning in Physics" (1984) by Malcolm S. Longair contains more details.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1184 on: 16/12/2024 09:15:12 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 09:02:04
Surprisingly, this is not the case.
Nothing surprising about it at all. I suspect this video was made by a philosopher. Particularly as the rest of the synopsis is garbage.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1185 on: 16/12/2024 12:01:45 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 07:56:20
. AI models will be the first reference for most people to get their information when they need it.
Maybe they will; but not yet.

Several people here have told you it's not a source of information.
You are the only one using it, and we keep pointing out that such behaviour is foolhardy.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1186 on: 16/12/2024 12:03:13 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 08:00:41
Quote from: Bored chemist on 15/12/2024 21:35:06
Thermodynamics hasn't changed much in 50 years.
The definition of temperature is essentially even older.
The term temperature is also used in fields other than thermodynamics, such as statistical mechanics, telecommunications, photography, and information science. It will be important to know their differences and similarities.
If they are not all talking about the same thing, then some of them are wrong.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1187 on: 16/12/2024 13:57:00 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 16/12/2024 09:15:12
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 09:02:04
Surprisingly, this is not the case.
Nothing surprising about it at all. I suspect this video was made by a philosopher. Particularly as the rest of the synopsis is garbage.
Earlier scientists did get surprised, or even straight out rejected the idea.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1188 on: 16/12/2024 14:00:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2024 12:01:45
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 07:56:20
. AI models will be the first reference for most people to get their information when they need it.
Maybe they will; but not yet.

Several people here have told you it's not a source of information.
You are the only one using it, and we keep pointing out that such behaviour is foolhardy.
They are sources of information. They can be asked to show their references.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1189 on: 16/12/2024 14:03:43 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2024 12:03:13
If they are not all talking about the same thing, then some of them are wrong.
When they are different about something, how to determine the correct one?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1190 on: 16/12/2024 14:50:37 »
As the term is borrowed from thermodynamics, it should be used in inverted commas and specifically redefined for any other use.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1191 on: 16/12/2024 15:17:55 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 16/12/2024 14:50:37
As the term is borrowed from thermodynamics, it should be used in inverted commas and specifically redefined for any other use.
The term temperature was already widely used before thermodynamics.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1192 on: 16/12/2024 16:08:17 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 14:00:04
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2024 12:01:45
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 07:56:20
. AI models will be the first reference for most people to get their information when they need it.
Maybe they will; but not yet.

Several people here have told you it's not a source of information.
You are the only one using it, and we keep pointing out that such behaviour is foolhardy.
They are sources of information. They can be asked to show their references.
Aside from the fact that you just proves that they are not sources of information (The references are the sources), why don't you ask then?
And then you can quote those sources and we can judge them.
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1193 on: 16/12/2024 18:01:53 »
Agreed.I don't know one single person, other that our esteemed colleague Hamdani, that uses these unreliable services for information.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1194 on: 16/12/2024 22:06:34 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 15:17:55
The term temperature was already widely used before thermodynamics.
I very much doubt is its use in telecommunications derives directly from the physiological phenomenon or the etymology of the word, but has a lot more to do with statistics and entropy.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1195 on: 17/12/2024 11:02:24 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2024 16:08:17
Aside from the fact that you just proves that they are not sources of information (The references are the sources), why don't you ask then?
And then you can quote those sources and we can judge them.
A secondary source is a source.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1196 on: 17/12/2024 14:47:59 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 16/12/2024 22:06:34
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/12/2024 15:17:55
The term temperature was already widely used before thermodynamics.
I very much doubt is its use in telecommunications derives directly from the physiological phenomenon or the etymology of the word, but has a lot more to do with statistics and entropy.
It's used for the similar behaviors of radiation from objects with the same temperature.

Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/11/2024 22:31:57
In summary, antenna temperature is a key concept in understanding the amount of radiation an antenna receives, which can represent either signal or noise, depending on the application. It helps quantify the effective power of this radiation by linking it to the temperature concept, facilitating better analysis and system design in both astronomy and communications.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1197 on: 17/12/2024 17:21:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/12/2024 11:02:24
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2024 16:08:17
Aside from the fact that you just proves that they are not sources of information (The references are the sources), why don't you ask then?
And then you can quote those sources and we can judge them.
A secondary source is a source.
A thing that makes up nonsense is not a source.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1198 on: 17/12/2024 21:56:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/12/2024 17:21:48
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 17/12/2024 11:02:24
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2024 16:08:17
Aside from the fact that you just proves that they are not sources of information (The references are the sources), why don't you ask then?
And then you can quote those sources and we can judge them.
A secondary source is a source.
A thing that makes up nonsense is not a source.

Humans make up nonsense everyday. What matters is whether or not the statements accurately represent objective reality.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2024 21:58:06 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: what is temperature?
« Reply #1199 on: 18/12/2024 09:16:05 »
By definition, nonsense does not represent reality.
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