[Petrochemicals (OP)]

.

Indeed if you subtract the nursing home idiocy from the UK record, Sweden is doing extremely badly by comparison.

Citation needed.

You could start with https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19inthecaresectorenglandandwales/deathsoccurringupto1may2020andregisteredupto9may2020provisional

and do the calculations for yourself.

But the statistics come from the UK government, and you don't believe those from the Swedish government, so why accept these?

Non follow.

Sweden is doing slightly better than us without lockdown from a common start point. Amazingly its cases trough and peak without the need for lockdown. As a counter example The Czech Republic, ducked the first wave with face masks etcetc yet 400,000 cases and 420 deaths per 1 million people versus Sweden 525. The Czechs are in a far worse position at present to boot registering 200 fatalities per day versus swedens 4. One must shame the Czechs too for not being Australia, even though it does partake in wellness destroying lockdowns. It begins to look like face cverings do not work yet heard in unity seems to be.

[Bored chemist]

It begins to look like face cverings do not work yet heard in unity seems to be.

Tosh.
No country has a high enough level of exposure, never mind immunity to demonstrate whether herd immunity works or not.
If it wa going to work, it could only do so after almost everyone had been exposed.
That hasn't happened so there's no way you can claim that herd immunity exists, never mind that it's working.
On the other hand, the evidence
http://ftp.iza.org/dp13319.pdf
shows that face coverings do work.
So, why tell the lies?

[alancalverd]

So the Czechs are well into  a second wave, having done much better than the Swedes in the first wave, thanks in part to wearing face masks. And as you can see from their government statistics, the Swedes are just beginning their second wave.

That's the problem with science - it's kind of inexorable. As of last Thursday:

"We have a very serious situation," Prime Minister Stefan Löfven warned, adding that the virus was "going in the wrong direction".

How very inconsiderate of it.

The maximum number of people allowed to sit together in a cafe or restaurant is eight people.

Stricter restrictions have been introduced in the regions of Halland, Örebo and Jönköping including a work from home order and the premier urged Swedes to avoid using public transport.

Almost 70 per cent of the 10.5million people who live in the Nordic country are now under the voluntary government guidelines.

And so the government learns, at the expense of the dead.

At present, about 0.2 - 0.3% of the UK population has been infected with COVID. You need to reach about 80% infection before herd immunity becomes significant, with 2.7 million excess deaths occurring en route in the UK - 6 times the WWII casualty figure. Only a corrupt politician would wish for such a trajectory, and the USA is well on the way.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

So the Czechs are well into  a second wave, having done much better than the Swedes in the first wave, thanks in part to wearing face masks. And as you can see from their government statistics, the Swedes are just beginning their second wave.

That's the problem with science - it's kind of inexorable. As of last Thursday:

Just beginning, as in not started yet, as in no 2nd wave, plus you have once again sidestepped the points of why do the swedes have a trough at all, considering they have consistently bucked your advice and the point of The Czechs even though following your advice being not much better off than your own UK?

"We have a very serious situation," Prime Minister Stefan Löfven warned, adding that the virus was "going in the wrong direction".

How very inconsiderate of it.

The maximum number of people allowed to sit together in a cafe or restaurant is eight people.

Stricter restrictions have been introduced in the regions of Halland, Örebo and Jönköping including a work from home order and the premier urged Swedes to avoid using public transport.

Almost 70 per cent of the 10.5million people who live in the Nordic country are now under the voluntary government guidelines.

And so the government learns, at the expense of the dead.

At present, about 0.2 - 0.3% of the UK population has been infected with COVID. You need to reach about 80% infection before herd immunity becomes significant, with 2.7 million excess deaths occurring en route in the UK - 6 times the WWII casualty figure. Only a corrupt politician would wish for such a trajectory, and the USA is well on the way.

Armageddon hellfire death death death, or vitamin terror once again just like your nemesis Trump to divert from the point that the Swedes are not using face coverings, have 8 in groups in pubs and have had no lockdown, yet your obedient Czechs are more than likely to be worse. How so? Could it be herd immunity and shielding?

[alancalverd]

If you  can't be bothered to look at the Swedish government's published data, or learn the simplest facts about herd immunity, I can't be bothered to tell you why you are wrong.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

If you  can't be bothered to look at the Swedish government's published data, or learn the simplest facts about herd immunity, I can't be bothered to tell you why you are wrong.

No, you can't be bothered to prove yourself wrong nor admit that a managed outbreak is a far better way to go that the all or nothing of Australia and Czech republic or the live and let die approach of USA Or Brazil or the Chinese model of absolute state control whose figures seem awfully  dubious for a population of 1.6G.

I will admit one thing though, if this where Ebola I would not want it managed this way. We do need to learn if anything else about disease  management like the Asian countries ha e done, but we need to learn more also.

[alancalverd]

managed outbreak

Oxymoron of the week.

[Bored chemist]

Could it be herd immunity

No It could not
Are you an idiot, or just too rude to actually read people's replies to your posts?

Tosh.
No country has a high enough level of exposure, never mind immunity to demonstrate whether herd immunity works or not.
If it wa going to work, it could only do so after almost everyone had been exposed.
That hasn't happened so there's no way you can claim that herd immunity exists, never mind that it's working.

[syhprum]

Chicken need no training to attack people they even occasionally kill infants or old folk

[alancalverd]

True, but you can train dogs to selectively seek out explosives or not kill the sheep they are herding. So how can I train my chickens to only attack idiots and innumerates?

[set fair]

The Czech Repiblic is a good country to evaluate the effectiveness of masks. They did very well when they adopted masks earlier than the rest of Europe. Then disasterously when they abandoned masks. Of course masks work. OK lots of us don't like wearing them but I don't see the point in pretending that they don't work.

Incidently Sweden leads the world in fortifying foods with vitamin D. We need both masks and vitamin D. They save lives without hurting the ecconomy.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

The Czech Repiblic is a good country to evaluate the effectiveness of masks. They did very well when they adopted masks earlier than the rest of Europe. Then disasterously when they abandoned masks. Of course masks work. OK lots of us don't like wearing them but I don't see the point in pretending that they don't work.

Incidently Sweden leads the world in fortifying foods with vitamin D. We need both masks and vitamin D. They save lives without hurting the ecconomy.

2 points

They have not abandoned masks, they stopped for a time

They have implemented strict curtailments of the public liberty despite being so good at usilising masks.

[alancalverd]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 is a good read.