[Kryptid]

A man named Zed Phoenix claiming to be a big pharma insider made a viral video:

"Claiming" being the key word there. What evidence does he have?

This is the virus not the vaccine,  but there appears to definitely be a direct attack by the virus on fertility.

Definitely? The article states, "the novel SARS‐CoV‐2 virus might generate pathogenic effects in male fertility", and, "might lead to male infertility." It also says, "should this causal link between SARS‐CoV‐2 infection and male infertility be confirmed", which implies that it has not been confirmed. Since when are "definitely" and "might" synonyms of each other?

And what does that have to do with syncytin, as per the original claims of this thread?

Certainly adds to my suspicion of a lab made virus released intentionally.

How does that follow?

[Bored chemist]

there appears to definitely be a direct attack by the virus on fertility.  Certainly adds to my suspicion of a lab made virus released intentionally.

Reduced male fertility has been a well known effect of mumps for centuries.
Do you think it was created in a lab?
Do you see that your suspicion makes no sense?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

A man named Zed Phoenix claiming to be a big pharma insider made a viral video:

"Claiming" being the key word there. What evidence does he have?

This is the virus not the vaccine,  but there appears to definitely be a direct attack by the virus on fertility.

Definitely?

I said appears to definitely.

Quote: "which suggests a high possibility that the virus targets the testis and male genital tract during infection."

"Notably, ACE2 is highly tissue‐specific, with significant levels being detected only in the heart, kidneys, testes, and gastrointestinal tract.32"

"Accumulating evidence suggests that the coronavirus family has an affinity for these testes cells"

I think it is definite that Covid attacks the testes, and surrounding tissues. The question, is, how badly?

And what does that have to do with syncytin, as per the original claims of this thread?

Just that that the virus and the vaccine both have potential implications for fertility.

Certainly adds to my suspicion of a lab made virus released intentionally.

How does that follow?

Well as people love to state, covid is a terrible biological weapon, if it is one as it hardly kills anyone.
 
Yet it is highly contagious which has allowed it to travel the entire earth. Lockdowns and travel bans don't stop it, interms of contagion its been very effective, a very successful spreader as a virus, so if it is a bio weapon, it has been a successful one in terms of its contagiousness. Known to damage organs but doesn't kill so many people. I think its 0.03% morality currently.

Yet potentially damages fertility, as does the vaccine. 

If Malthusians made and released covid, it makes sense as a bio weapon designed to reduce people in numbers, over time, simply by preventing reproduction. 

They would be  "saving" the world from the plague of humanity.

A highly contagious virus that destroys fertility is the perfect bio weapon for a malthusian, as such Covid 19 matching those criteria, increases my suspicion that it is a bio weapon.


As I have quoted before:-

"We have never seen a Corona virus with these properties anywhere in nature, therefore the most logical explanation is that this virus has come from a laboratory, anyone seeking to claim zoological origin now has the burden of proof"
virologist Birger Sørensen

We have seen these kinds of Corona virus' in labs it is known that Fort Detrick and Wuhan both worked on Corna virus'

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop
Earlier this week, Newsweek and the Washington Post reported that the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a lab near the site of the first coronavirus cases in the world, had been studying bat coronaviruses

There is currently no smoking gun, but the majority of evidence lines up with Covid19 being lab created

Christopher Martenson , PhD , is an American scientist by training, Within his scientific career he has carried out research in the field of biochemistry , neurotoxicology , applied pharmacology and in vitro techniques .

Taking their lead the evidence lines up with a released Bio weapon.
We know for a fact different laboratories were working on gain of function research with bat Corona virus'.
The evidence currently seems to imply a laboratory release.  And this virus attacks reproduction.


We know they worked on them, and have as Birger Sørensen points out only seen a Corona viruses with these properties in a laboratory.

Suggests to me a bio weapon designed to attack human fertility.

Left with the question did it escape or did someone release it?

[RD]

Yet potentially damages fertility, as does the vaccine.

If Malthusians made and released covid, it makes sense as a bio weapon designed to reduce people in numbers, over time, simply by preventing reproduction.

They would be  "saving" the world from the plague of humanity ...

In that scenario, (when the virus and the vaccine both cause infertility), how do the Malthusians avoid sterility ?.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/it-was-inevitable-that-antivaxxers-would-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-make-females-infertile/

[Kryptid]

I think it is definite that Covid attacks the testes, and surrounding tissues.

Which does not mean that it causes higher rates of infertility than other illnesses. Such a thing has yet to be demonstrated.

A highly contagious virus that destroys fertility is the perfect bio weapon for a malthusian, as such Covid 19 matching those criteria, increases my suspicion that it is a bio weapon.

A highly contagious disease that kills people would also be the perfect bio weapon for a Malthusian, so does that mean the black plague epidemic of the 1300's was synthetic? What about the Spanish flu of 1918?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

A highly contagious virus that destroys fertility is the perfect bio weapon for a malthusian, as such Covid 19 matching those criteria, increases my suspicion that it is a bio weapon.

A highly contagious disease that kills people would also be the perfect bio weapon for a Malthusian, so does that mean the black plague epidemic of the 1300's was synthetic? What about the Spanish flu of 1918?

Human beings didnt have the requisite skills in 1300. BuT..

"On the basis of a 14th-century account by the Genoese Gabriele de’ Mussi, the Black Death is widely believed to have reached Europe from the Crimea as the result of a biological warfare attack."
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/8/9/01-0536_article


"The last known incident of using plague corpses for biological warfare occurred in 1710, when Russian forces attacked the Swedes by flinging plague-infected corpses over the city walls of Reval (Tallinn).[18] "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare

Sickness as a means of warfare has been used throughout history. In America native people were given blackets infected with small pox.

"There’s evidence that British colonists in 18th-century America gave Native Americans smallpox-infected blankets at least once"
https://www.history.com/.amp/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

Spainish flu originated in an American military Hospital, it's only called spainish flu because Spain was the only country with media reporting on it during the first world war.

Was spainish flu somehow developed and released?

I dont know, but it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Yet potentially damages fertility, as does the vaccine.

If Malthusians made and released covid, it makes sense as a bio weapon designed to reduce people in numbers, over time, simply by preventing reproduction.

They would be  "saving" the world from the plague of humanity ...

In that scenario, (when the virus and the vaccine both cause infertility), how do the Malthusians avoid sterility ?.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/it-was-inevitable-that-antivaxxers-would-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-make-females-infertile/

Dont know, have to ask them?

What mechanism could undo that form of infertility?

Are we about to see the 'handmaids tail' in live action?


I dont know if you noticed but the Scientists asking for more researched expressed concern that mice given a Corona virus vaccine died once contracting the illness.

[Bored chemist]

Lockdowns and travel bans don't stop it,

Yes they do.

Ask New Zealand.

Was spainish flu somehow developed and released?

I dont know, but it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

So, you would not be surprised if someone developed a viral disease to use as a weapon before anyone knew what a virus was, never mind was able to do genetic engineering.

Do you understand why rational people would be surprised by that scenario?
Do you understand that most people would recognise that it is impossible?

[evan_au]

mice given a Corona virus vaccine died once contracting the illness.

All mice die.
- Some mice die sooner if they contract a novel virus.
- What makes a successful vaccine is if fewer mice die after taking the vaccine and then are challenged with the novel virus.

An effect where the vaccine causes more mice to die when challenged with the virus was seen on one of the candidate vaccines developed against the original SARS virus (which was also a coronavirus, but a different one).

That's why vaccine developers usually test a vaccine candidate first on mice. If it fails in mice, they don't take it any further.
- it is hard to fully test a vaccine "in the dish", as cells in a petri dish don't usually have enough components of the immune system to demonstrate a robust immune response.

[Kryptid]

Human beings didnt have the requisite skills in 1300.

Which was exactly my point. If nature can come up with a pandemic that would conveniently achieve the goals of Malthusians, then there is no need to invoke human synthesis to explain it.

"On the basis of a 14th-century account by the Genoese Gabriele de’ Mussi, the Black Death is widely believed to have reached Europe from the Crimea as the result of a biological warfare attack."
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/8/9/01-0536_article


"The last known incident of using plague corpses for biological warfare occurred in 1710, when Russian forces attacked the Swedes by flinging plague-infected corpses over the city walls of Reval (Tallinn).[18] "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare

Sickness as a means of warfare has been used throughout history. In America native people were given blackets infected with small pox.

"There’s evidence that British colonists in 18th-century America gave Native Americans smallpox-infected blankets at least once"
https://www.history.com/.amp/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

Which, of course, is not evidence that humans engineered those diseases.

Was spainish flu somehow developed and released?

How, exactly?

Dont know, have to ask them?

You're assuming that such virus-synthesizing Malthusians exist in the first place.

I dont know if you noticed but the Scientists asking for more researched expressed concern that mice given a Corona virus vaccine died once contracting the illness.

Source, please.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Human beings didnt have the requisite skills in 1300.

Which was exactly my point. If nature can come up with a pandemic that would conveniently achieve the goals of Malthusians, then there is no need to invoke human synthesis to explain it.

"On the basis of a 14th-century account by the Genoese Gabriele de’ Mussi, the Black Death is widely believed to have reached Europe from the Crimea as the result of a biological warfare attack."
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/8/9/01-0536_article


"The last known incident of using plague corpses for biological warfare occurred in 1710, when Russian forces attacked the Swedes by flinging plague-infected corpses over the city walls of Reval (Tallinn).[18] "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare

Sickness as a means of warfare has been used throughout history. In America native people were given blackets infected with small pox.

"There’s evidence that British colonists in 18th-century America gave Native Americans smallpox-infected blankets at least once"
https://www.history.com/.amp/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

Which, of course, is not evidence that humans engineered those diseases.

Was spainish flu somehow developed and released?

How, exactly?

Dont know, have to ask them?

You're assuming that such virus-synthesizing Malthusians exist in the first place.

Never heard of the Nazi party?

Interestingly Dr Francis Boyle recently claimed that the vaccinations should be halted because they are breaking international law and contraviening the laws on medical experimentation as stipulated in the Nuremberg trials. He also claims that the entire Vaccine program is being led by people dedicated to the same philosophy of 'the useless eaters' as employed by the Nazis, population reduction is the objective he claims.

That the elites are totally malthusian sociopaths, isnt a stretch when you look at what the leaders of the first world have engaged in to further their position, over the centuries.

"They looked from pig to man and from man to pig and couldn't see a difference"

because in the end there isnt one.

I dont know if you noticed but the Scientists asking for more researched expressed concern that mice given a Corona virus vaccine died once contracting the illness.

Source, please.

In the initial link. It was part of the list of reasons given as to why the vaccines programs should be halted and tested more before being given to the general population.

[Bored chemist]

Never heard of the Nazi party?

Yes. They died out at roughly the same time as we discovered what viruses do.
So they can't really be relevant.
Why did you mention them, rather than answering the point Kryptid made?
Were you hoping we wouldn't notice?

Dr Francis Boyle recently claimed

Did he provide evidence, or should we ignore him?

That the elites are totally malthusian sociopaths, isnt a stretch

They aren't malthusians; they keep going on about economic growth.

[Bored chemist]

In the initial link. It was part of the list of reasons given

That  link does not include the word "mice".

[Kryptid]

Never heard of the Nazi party?

When did the Nazis ever engineer a virus?

He also claims...

He can claim that if he wants to, but can he back that claim up with actual evidence?

In the initial link. It was part of the list of reasons given as to why the vaccines programs should be halted and tested more before being given to the general population.

Did you mean "cats" instead of "mice?"

If the COVID vaccines tended to kill people after they were exposed to COVID-19, then that should have been shown in the studies performed to confirm their safety. So the question now is, where is the data that supports that conclusion?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Never heard of the Nazi party?

When did the Nazis ever engineer a virus?

I think the point I was making related more to the fact that the types of people that would engineer a virus have existed in the past.

And also as I previously also point out biological warfare has existed and been used for centuries. That the Nazis didn't have the ability to make virus' then is a moot point. Neo Nazis are very much still a thing.

GROWING EVIDENCE SUGGESTS COVID 19 ORIGINATED IN THE WUHAN LABORATORY
https://www.wionews.com/world/growing-evidence-suggests-covid-19-originated-from-wuhan-lab-senior-us-official-354410

Interestingly apparently Dr Fauci played a role in transferring Bat Corona research to Wuhan.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3981833

https://nationalfile.com/faucis-niaid-funded-wuhan-lab-scientists-to-research-bat-coronavirus/


News report by Jimmy Dore on how Fauci is a pathological Lair

Fauci is now first on my list of suspects,  he told everyone in America that masks did not work, which categorical allowed the virus to spread,  he also had a hand in sending the research to wuhan, the very place some are saying evidence shows it has most likely come from. How he is incharge of Americas response  to covid is a serious question.

He also claims...

He can claim that if he wants to, but can he back that claim up with actual evidence?

In the initial link. It was part of the list of reasons given as to why the vaccines programs should be halted and tested more before being given to the general population.

Did you mean "cats" instead of "mice?"

If the COVID vaccines tended to kill people after they were exposed to COVID-19, then that should have been shown in the studies performed to confirm their safety. So the question now is, where is the data that supports that conclusion?

I think the issue is more down to research time, vaccine normally take between 4 to 10 years, These vaccines have been rushed and tested in a matter of months and we are forced to accept the data provided by those that made them, who will profit from them and who have also be given a legal exemption from prosecution should the vaccines cause any harm.
None of this is really correct in my opinion

[evan_au]

how Fauci is a pathological Lair

The 60 to 70% immunity level is a calculation derived from the initial estimate that SARS-COV2 has an R₀ around 2.5 to 3.5.
- The new virus strain seen in the UK is thought to have a higher R₀, around 3 to 4. This automatically means that the needed level of herd immunity is even higher.

Let's say we deploy a vaccine that reduces the rate of severe disease and death by 90%.
- Trials are ongoing, and the figures are not yet available, but lets say that the vaccine only reduces the rate of transmission by (say) 60%. That means that you effectively need to increase the number of vaccinated people from 60% to almost 100% to prevent spread of the disease using herd immunity.
- This will be an uphill battle, because surveys show that only 60% of US citizens say that they would definitely get the vaccine

Again, we don't know how long the immunity will last (from the disease or the vaccine), and how long it will take for a mutation to evade the vaccine. So repeated vaccination may be necessary (we don't know yet).

The US pandemic response has been a farce - starting with Donald Trump dismantling the White House pandemic preparedness office when he got into power.
- In all of this disaster, Anthony Fauci has been the quiet voice of reason
- Fauci has had to walk a very thin tightrope - he works for the US Federal Government, and his boss (several levels up) is Donald Trump
- So he has been extremely restrained when he contradicts Donald Trump, and only do so to correct the most severe of errors
- Donald Trump has talked several times about firing him, and was grumpy because he had been told that this would be an unpopular move
- Once Donald Trump is no longer Fauci's boss (after January 20th), then Anthony Fauci can speak more freely
- But he will still be very limited in what he can say, because accurate data on vaccine impact on disease transmission will not be available for another few months

I expect the result will be: Wear masks and keep up social distancing until vaccination rates reach almost 100%.
- But there is a significant percentage of Americans who refuse to wear a mask, as a badge of honor.
- In the meantime, it is possible that masks may need to be mandated (and maybe regional lockdowns), which is definitely something Fauci cannot say while Donald Trump is president
- Masks & the vaccination campaign should eventually get the US virus wildfire under control
- By then, more data should be available that would allow a timetable for relaxing masks and social distancing rules

[Bored chemist]

Fauci is now first on my list of suspects, 

And that's your problem.
You have a prime suspect; but there isn't any evidence of a crime.

he told everyone in America that masks did not work, which categorical allowed the virus to spread

No.
That's misrepresentation.
He said that most people shouldn't wear masks.
And that was because there were not enough masks for the people on the front line of healthcare.
If you don't have enough masks for everybody then you should discourage their use by those with the least need/ benefit.

Do you accept that, in those circumstances, Fauci's advice was correct?

[Jolly2 (OP)]

how Fauci is a pathological Lair

The 60 to 70% immunity level is a calculation derived from the initial estimate that SARS-COV2 has an R₀ around 2.5 to 3.5.
- The new virus strain seen in the UK is thought to have a higher R₀, around 3 to 4. This automatically means that the needed level of herd immunity is even higher.

Let's say we deploy a vaccine that reduces the rate of severe disease and death by 90%.
- Trials are ongoing, and the figures are not yet available, but lets say that the vaccine only reduces the rate of transmission by (say) 60%. That means that you effectively need to increase the number of vaccinated people from 60% to almost 100% to prevent spread of the disease using herd immunity.
- This will be an uphill battle, because surveys show that only 60% of US citizens say that they would definitely get the vaccine

Again, we don't know how long the immunity will last (from the disease or the vaccine), and how long it will take for a mutation to evade the vaccine. So repeated vaccination may be necessary (we don't know yet).

The US pandemic response has been a farce - starting with Donald Trump dismantling the White House pandemic preparedness office when he got into power.
- In all of this disaster, Anthony Fauci has been the quiet voice of reason
- Fauci has had to walk a very thin tightrope - he works for the US Federal Government, and his boss (several levels up) is Donald Trump
- So he has been extremely restrained when he contradicts Donald Trump, and only do so to correct the most severe of errors
- Donald Trump has talked several times about firing him, and was grumpy because he had been told that this would be an unpopular move
- Once Donald Trump is no longer Fauci's boss (after January 20th), then Anthony Fauci can speak more freely
- But he will still be very limited in what he can say, because accurate data on vaccine impact on disease transmission will not be available for another few months

I expect the result will be: Wear masks and keep up social distancing until vaccination rates reach almost 100%.
- But there is a significant percentage of Americans who refuse to wear a mask, as a badge of honor.
- In the meantime, it is possible that masks may need to be mandated (and maybe regional lockdowns), which is definitely something Fauci cannot say while Donald Trump is president
- Masks & the vaccination campaign should eventually get the US virus wildfire under control
- By then, more data should be available that would allow a timetable for relaxing masks and social distancing rules

I have a question. 

If mRNA vaccine cause your own body to create the protein pieces your immune system identifies, is there not a risk that the body could see them as part of your own genome or unthreatening and therefore destroy any resistance to the virus?

[Kryptid]

If mRNA vaccine cause your own body to create the protein pieces your immune system identifies, is there not a risk that the body could see them as part of your own genome or unthreatening and therefore destroy any resistance to the virus?

No. The proteins produced are the same as those possessed by the virus itself. White blood cells can't tell the difference.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

If mRNA vaccine cause your own body to create the protein pieces your immune system identifies, is there not a risk that the body could see them as part of your own genome or unthreatening and therefore destroy any resistance to the virus?

No. The proteins produced are the same as those possessed by the virus itself. White blood cells can't tell the difference.

You're missing my point, which related to the fact that your body creates them.

My question was if your body is creating the proteins is there not a risk that your body could end up considering them friendly and therefore prevent any immune response.