[Petrochemicals (OP)]

Don't these "pies" convey the essential statistical information at a glance.
Far more quickly, and efficiently,  than the equivalent table of numbers would?

The Swedish COVID death toll doubled in the last 3 months. Looking at the figures we can identify the date at which actions were taken that resulted in this significant increase, and derive a statistic that allows meaningful comparison with another country. 

Yep from 6 to 12 thousand, it is better if we put a figure on it. Meanwhile the amount of people in tier 4 restrictions in the UK rose from 0 to 65million in the last 4 months. That is a rise of 0 percent.  The mortality rate in th UK in June fell from previous years, corona saved an extra ~10~ percent of people.

[alancalverd]

the amount of people in tier 4 restrictions in the UK rose from 0 to 65million in the last 4 months. That is a rise of 0 percent.

So (65 - 0) x 100 / 0 = 0 on your planet. Who said mathematics was universal?

[alancalverd]

The mortality rate in th UK in June fell from previous years, corona saved an extra ~10~ percent of people.

" He that cuts off twenty years of life
Cuts off so many years of fearing death. " 
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,  Act III, scene 1, line 101

There are lies, damned lies, presidential lies, and bad statistics.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

the amount of people in tier 4 restrictions in the UK rose from 0 to 65million in the last 4 months. That is a rise of 0 percent.

So (65 - 0) x 100 / 0 = 0 on your planet. Who said mathematics was universal?

Yes Alan, someone with mathematical skills shall be along to point it out.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

The mortality rate in th UK in June fell from previous years, corona saved an extra ~10~ percent of people.

" He that cuts off twenty years of life
Cuts off so many years of fearing death. " 
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,  Act III, scene 1, line 101

There are lies, damned lies, presidential lies, and bad statistics.

In what context was the above verse situated, was it in noble sacrifice or conniving politics.

[alancalverd]

Justifying murder.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

Justifying murder.

I have read it, the verse is soon after they do in Caesar, it relates to reputation, to end in the height of fame and not facing the age decline and unpopularity and supercedence I belive, not doing himself a favour. It is much in that respect like Jimi hendrix, Bob marley, John lennon, kurdt kobain etc.

[chemhat1999]

Once again, I can't go for an unnecessary drive in a car, can't play golf, can't go and see someone else in their garden, yet I can go indoors to a church, can send a child to nursery, and can order from the internet businesses with industrial sweatshops. It was the same a month ago, during the last lockdown, which strangely enough failed to dent the spread of corona. It is a complete waste of my time, and is patently unfair. At least this time they have bothered to shut the schools.

I would like to refer to the aspect you mentioned about sending children to nurseries.
I come from Gemany, and nurserys were shut down due to high infection rates. Believe me, closing nurseries should be one of the last options. A lot of parents here in Germany are in a crisis, since a lot of them can`t go to work because they have to babysit their children. And a lot of people who would love to hire a nany can`t afford it. Not every company allows or is suitable for Home Office, which leads to a lot of adults being unable to work to sustain their families.
I am by no means trying to be insulting here, but it just lit a spark in my heart.

[alancalverd]

Makes you wonder why they had children, if looking after them is so awful and they are such a financial burden.

Nurseries were shut down due to high infection rates.

The alternative being....more sick adults and children. Government is the business of doing the unpalatable to prevent the unacceptable.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

Once again, I can't go for an unnecessary drive in a car, can't play golf, can't go and see someone else in their garden, yet I can go indoors to a church, can send a child to nursery, and can order from the internet businesses with industrial sweatshops. It was the same a month ago, during the last lockdown, which strangely enough failed to dent the spread of corona. It is a complete waste of my time, and is patently unfair. At least this time they have bothered to shut the schools.

I would like to refer to the aspect you mentioned about sending children to nurseries.
I come from Gemany, and nurserys were shut down due to high infection rates. Believe me, closing nurseries should be one of the last options. A lot of parents here in Germany are in a crisis, since a lot of them can`t go to work because they have to babysit their children. And a lot of people who would love to hire a nany can`t afford it. Not every company allows or is suitable for Home Office, which leads to a lot of adults being unable to work to sustain their families.
I am by no means trying to be insulting here, but it just lit a spark in my heart.

But the infection rates came down quite drastically compared to the UK did they not ?

[chemhat1999]

Once again, I can't go for an unnecessary drive in a car, can't play golf, can't go and see someone else in their garden, yet I can go indoors to a church, can send a child to nursery, and can order from the internet businesses with industrial sweatshops. It was the same a month ago, during the last lockdown, which strangely enough failed to dent the spread of corona. It is a complete waste of my time, and is patently unfair. At least this time they have bothered to shut the schools.

I would like to refer to the aspect you mentioned about sending children to nurseries.
I come from Gemany, and nurserys were shut down due to high infection rates. Believe me, closing nurseries should be one of the last options. A lot of parents here in Germany are in a crisis, since a lot of them can`t go to work because they have to babysit their children. And a lot of people who would love to hire a nany can`t afford it. Not every company allows or is suitable for Home Office, which leads to a lot of adults being unable to work to sustain their families.
I am by no means trying to be insulting here, but it just lit a spark in my heart.

But the infection rates came down quite drastically compared to the UK did they not ?

Well I can agree, that the Numbers went down way quicker in comparison to UK.
But I wouldn`t necessarily explain it with the shutting down of nurserys. It is told, that the risks of infections in nurserys is way lower, than in other institutions (at least in Germany even from the national television). Of course, most deffinetly prevents some infections, that is without doubt. But the damage the families take is just too big. For parents AND the children.
The small ones are supposed to be socialising and learning from other people. They absorb so uch information this way. Especially in their life-phase where they develope so quickly.

[alancalverd]

It is told, that the risks of infections in nurserys is way lower, than in other institutions

The risk of serious infection in nursery populations seems to be low because young kids seem not to develop severe symptoms (if any) but the virus is always happy to spread to asymptomatic carriers who then take it home to their families. The best carrier is the one who doesn't know he has the disease, and is hugged and kissed by lots of adults.

The small ones are supposed to be socialising and learning from other people. They absorb so much information this way. Especially in their life-phase where they develope so quickly.

And who better to learn from than their parents and elder siblings? What useful skills, behavior and language can a baby learn from another baby? Nurseries are dumping grounds for kids who get in the way of their parents earning money.

[chemhat1999]

It is told, that the risks of infections in nurserys is way lower, than in other institutions

The risk of serious infection in nursery populations seems to be low because young kids seem not to develop severe symptoms (if any) but the virus is always happy to spread to asymptomatic carriers who then take it home to their families. The best carrier is the one who doesn't know he has the disease, and is hugged and kissed by lots of adults.

The small ones are supposed to be socialising and learning from other people. They absorb so much information this way. Especially in their life-phase where they develope so quickly.

And who better to learn from than their parents and elder siblings? What useful skills, behavior and language can a baby learn from another baby? Nurseries are dumping grounds for kids who get in the way of their parents earning money.

I see the reasoning behind the first poin. And you might be right. But i can`t in any way agree on the second one...
Maybe that is the way you see it, but i think it is pretty obvious in these days, what happens to people when they aren`t in an environment where they are able to socialise. Maye you misunderstood me, because i didn`t try to imply, that children learn ONLY from nurserys. I do also think, that the main teachers in a Childs life are their parents. But the social life is a huge aspect aswell, and it is getting damaged big time.
Now i can`t give a certain solution to this problem. On the one hand, some instituions (like nurseries in this case) should be closed to minimize the infection rate. But on the other hand, it is a crucial part of discovering how life works, and getting to know, that there is more to it than just "mommy" "daddy" and maybe "nanny".

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

And 100% of Swedish government statistics are published by the Swedish government. But they are really, really difficult to understand if you are determined not to.

On that point Alan sweden is averaging a 0.2 percent fatality rate compared to cases weeks prior, 3000 cases on average The cases have levelled to a sustained  plateau but the fatality rate is on the floor. This is good efficient Scandinavian management, proving it can be done. If this had been implemented a year ago the herd immunity often wrongly attributed to Swedens policy would have come to fluition with less victims.

...... and before you claim lockdown would be better, consider the other health effects of quarantine as outlined prior.

[evan_au]

Screenshot_20210210_003425.jpg (134.81 kB . 1604x676 - viewed 236 times)
Effective measures to protect the vulnerable work. Herd immunity would be achieved a lot faster than the vaccine too.

That is an interesting graph - but it leaves out some vital information, like:
- What is the vertical axis? (Usually there is some scale, which is missing.)
- What is being measured? (Usually in the Title, which is missing)
- I can see the dates along the bottom (Good!)
- And I can see that the vertical scale is linear, not logarithmic (Important to know...)

But the general inference is interesting:
- In February/March 2020, when almost no precautions were initially taken, cases exploded (in country X=unknown)
- The rate of decline, from April to August, was very slow.
- When the second wave began, in November-December 2020, it grew much more slowly, perhaps because people were taking social distancing, masks and contact tracing more seriously?
- When the second wave declined, in January 2021, it fell very quickly.

In a thread which is talking about lockdowns, you would think that you could relate the date of lockdowns to their effects - but not knowing the country, that is just impossible.
- Leaving out this vital information is just poor statistics.

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

Screenshot_20210210_003425.jpg (134.81 kB . 1604x676 - viewed 236 times)
Effective measures to protect the vulnerable work. Herd immunity would be achieved a lot faster than the vaccine too.

That is an interesting graph - but it leaves out some vital information, like:
- What is the vertical axis? (Usually there is some scale, which is missing.)
- What is being measured? (Usually in the Title, which is missing)
- I can see the dates along the bottom (Good!)
- And I can see that the vertical scale is linear, not logarithmic (Important to know...)

But the general inference is interesting:
- In February/March 2020, when almost no precautions were initially taken, cases exploded (in country X=unknown)
- The rate of decline, from April to August, was very slow.
- When the second wave began, in November-December 2020, it grew much more slowly, perhaps because people were taking social distancing, masks and contact tracing more seriously?
- When the second wave declined, in January 2021, it fell very quickly.

In a thread which is talking about lockdowns, you would think that you could relate the date of lockdowns to their effects - but not knowing the country, that is just impossible.
- Leaving out this vital information is just poor statistics.

As this is in just chat I did not do a revision even though I did not do a good job with the graph, the gist is the fall in mortality versus current cases.

[alancalverd]

On that point Alan sweden is averaging a 0.2 percent fatality rate compared to cases

The numerate among us would have noticed that 12,649 divided by 631,166 is 2%, not 0.2%, but why let a mere factor of 10 spoil an argument?

Anyway, dividing deaths to date by infections to  date doesn't give you the fatality rate when the number of infections is rising rapidly, as it has done for the last 3 months in Sweden, because it takes several weeks to die from COVID.

Those with an actual interest in the statistics of epidemics will have looked back at the "28 day" numbers for Sweden on 30 November. The reason is quite simple to understand if you have an IQ exceeding 50. Until the end of October, the number of confirmed cases was very stable at about 4000 per month, so  the 30 November total reported deaths figure is pretty close to the true 28 day fatality rate for infections up to 31 October.

What alarmed the Swedish health ministry was the official (28 day)  death rate over the year to that point was 5.3%. No surprise, really, because that has been the sort of number to expect in any advanced society with plenty of intensive care facilities.

The infection rate is determined by human stupidity only. The fatality rate is fixed by the virus itself, and is fairly independent of government action.

[alancalverd]

the main teachers in a Childs life are their parents.

Not if the child spends most of its waking hours in a nursery.  Dump the kid at 0830, pick up at 1700, sit in the car for 30 minutes, sit in front of the TV for 30 minutes while parents do stuff with food, 30 minutes having food wiped off face and hands, 15 minutes being licked by dog while parents clean up, 30 minutes quality time while parents check emails, bath and bed while parent reads some crap about fairies. If you are really lucky you might spend an hour screaming in a supermarket once a week. It's only the dog that really has time to show affection, and knows how.

[alancalverd]

3000 cases on average The cases have levelled to a sustained  plateau

....er....16,000 in the last week. But why bother with the truth, eh?

[Petrochemicals (OP)]

On that point Alan sweden is averaging a 0.2 percent fatality rate compared to cases

The numerate among us would have noticed that 12,649 divided by 631,166 is 2%, not 0.2%, but why let a mere factor of 10 spoil an argument?

.

Again Alan another misquote misrepresentation out of context denying the content of the sentence posted

,, and there was no punctuation in the above sentence either just like the quote. One can only assume you feel you are wrong.

Anyway, moving off from the point, anyway, my stick I wish to brandish is, I like coffee I like tea, I love the java jive and it loves me.