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  4. Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
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Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?

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Offline Kartazion (OP)

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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #60 on: 24/02/2022 20:32:59 »
Quote from: Origin on 24/02/2022 20:27:39
Quote from: Kartazion on 24/02/2022 19:16:14
What else?
You can't learn physics by reading quotes.
Pretty much every conclusion you came up with in your harmonic oscillatory thread was wrong.
What is the harmonic oscillator doing here? What is the relationship with evolution?
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #61 on: 24/02/2022 21:41:13 »
What else?
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #62 on: 24/02/2022 22:07:59 »
According to @Origin I would be wrong about something and he thinks that quantum mechanics is predictable and totally in tune with reality.

That leads to huge misunderstandings.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #63 on: 24/02/2022 22:10:38 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 24/02/2022 20:32:59
What is the harmonic oscillator doing here? What is the relationship with evolution?
Uh, you asked, "what else", so I gave you a what else.  Since you brought up quantum mechanics, which isn't about evolution I didn't think it would be a problem.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #64 on: 24/02/2022 22:14:15 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 24/02/2022 22:07:59
he thinks that quantum mechanics is predictable and totally in tune with reality.
I don't recall saying that.  Seems like you are making stuff up.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #65 on: 24/02/2022 22:16:42 »
So my OP is right.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #66 on: 24/02/2022 22:51:28 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 24/02/2022 22:16:42
So my OP is right.
You sure do jump to a lot of unwarranted conclusions...
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #67 on: 24/02/2022 22:53:04 »
Quote from: Origin on 24/02/2022 22:51:28
You sure do jump to a lot of unwarranted conclusions...
Like what?
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #68 on: 24/02/2022 23:48:10 »
That I correct these unwarranted conclusions...
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #69 on: 25/02/2022 02:01:40 »
I give you a new openness to the discussion ; Get one's teeth into something.

Quote from: Origin on 24/02/2022 20:27:39
You can't learn physics by reading quotes.
"imagination is more important than knowledge" Albert Einstein

Quote from: Origin on 24/02/2022 22:10:38
Since you brought up quantum mechanics, which isn't about evolution...
Quantum mechanics is the underlying reason and tool for the constitution of relativistic physics, and allows evolution to occur. The lack of scientific criteria/arguments to develop a viable theory is similar between quantum mechanics and evolution at the level of its interpretation. Indeed without quantum mechanics (without atomic structure) we have nothing left.

Quote from: Kryptid on 23/02/2022 20:37:11
There is no need for a "common sense" explanation for evolution because science isn't based on common sense. Instead, it is based on evidence.
So what are the scientific evidences in relation to evolution?

Quote from: Kryptid on 23/02/2022 20:37:11
... So there is then no point in trying to figure anything out at all.
This is not reasoning worthy of a scientist. Don't let go.

Quote from: alancalverd on 24/02/2022 17:07:28
Quote from: Kartazion on 23/02/2022 21:52:37
Due to its factor of uncertainty.
Wrong translation leads to wrong interpretation.
And Wrong interpretation leads to wrong translation.

The misunderstanding of which speak is a trifle. You have played a small card with a touch of ambiguity. Take a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty ... What I deplore is that this is the only contradictory argument that you have found. Conclusion This does not call into question everything that has been said so far. So?

PS: Heisenberg used the word "Ungenauigkeit" ("indeterminacy")  ;D
« Last Edit: 25/02/2022 06:39:11 by Kartazion »
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #70 on: 25/02/2022 14:14:33 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 02:01:40
Quantum mechanics is the underlying reason and tool for the constitution of relativistic physics, and allows evolution to occur.
Nope.  Special relativity, general relativity and evolution all predate quantum mechanics.
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 02:01:40
"imagination is more important than knowledge" Albert Einstein
"Imagination without knowledge is fantasy", Me.
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 02:01:40
So what are the scientific evidences in relation to evolution?
This is a tough one.
Go to 'Google'
Type into the search bar 'what are the scientific evidences for evolution'.
Read the results.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #71 on: 25/02/2022 15:02:24 »
Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 14:14:33
Nope.  Special relativity, general relativity and evolution all predate quantum mechanics.
So you confirm that quantum mechanics stems from classical physics? In other words, it's classical physics that create quantum mechanics?
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 02:01:40
Indeed without quantum mechanics (without atomic structure) we have nothing left.

Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 14:14:33
"Imagination without knowledge is fantasy", Me.
Not bad! But the idea of ​​a creator is not fantasy and does not require any special knowledge.

Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 14:14:33
Type into the search bar 'what are the scientific evidences for evolution'.
Read the results.
Evidence for evolution comes from many different areas of biology. What is the common sense to this cause? Divine or accidental? It cannot be accidental simply because the biological process is intelligently ordered.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #72 on: 25/02/2022 15:13:46 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 15:02:24
So you confirm that quantum mechanics stems from classical physics?
Of course.  Many experimental results and observations could not be answered by classical physics and as a result quantum physics was developed.
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 15:02:24
But the idea of ​​a creator is not fantasy
There is no evidence of a creator or intelligence involved in evolution, so saying that there is a creator would be fantasy.
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 15:02:24
What is the common sense to this cause?
Natural selection.  Neither divine nor accident.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #73 on: 25/02/2022 15:37:04 »
Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 15:13:46
Of course.  Many experimental results and observations could not be answered by classical physics and as a result quantum physics was developed.
@Origin there was a misunderstanding. I speak at the level of functioning of the mechanics of the physical system (constitution) and not the study of the disciplines. It is thanks to quantum mechanics, the atom to be precise, that matter exists. So I was saying that thanks to the atom, matter exists.

Watched and reread:
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 02:01:40
Quantum mechanics is the underlying reason and tool for the constitution of relativistic physics, and allows evolution to occur. The lack of scientific criteria/arguments to develop a viable theory is similar between quantum mechanics and evolution at the level of its interpretation. Indeed without quantum mechanics (without atomic structure) we have nothing left.

Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 15:13:46
There is no evidence of a creator or intelligence involved in evolution, ...
One chance out of two.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #74 on: 25/02/2022 17:49:57 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 15:37:04
Quantum mechanics is the underlying reason and tool for the constitution of relativistic physics, and allows evolution to occur. The lack of scientific criteria/arguments to develop a viable theory is similar between quantum mechanics and evolution at the level of its interpretation. Indeed without quantum mechanics (without atomic structure) we have nothing left.
That's silly.  Quantum mechanics never comes into the explanation of evolution or relativity.  Yes you need atoms but that is kind of obvious.  You also need the strong force and the weak force or you wouldn't have atoms - but that is besides the point.
You don't need to understand quantum mechanics to use a wrench.  You don't need quantum mechanics to learn how to fly a hot air balloon.  You don't need quantum mechanics to understand relativity or evolution.  That is just the way it is.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #75 on: 25/02/2022 17:54:47 »
Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 15:13:46
There is no evidence of a creator or intelligence involved in evolution
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 15:37:04
One chance out of two.
I have no idea what that answer is supposed to mean.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #76 on: 25/02/2022 18:52:59 »
Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 17:49:57
That's silly.  Quantum mechanics never comes into the explanation of evolution or relativity. ...
I never wanted to explain evolution with quantum mechanics. Why did you say that?

Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 17:54:47
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 15:37:04
One chance out of two.
I have no idea what that answer is supposed to mean.
There is a 50% chance that a creator or intelligence is involved in evolution, and there is a 50% chance that a creator or intelligence isn't involved in evolution.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #77 on: 25/02/2022 19:29:08 »
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 18:52:59
I never wanted to explain evolution with quantum mechanics. Why did you say that?
That's what I thought you were saying, translation issue I suppose.
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 18:52:59
There is a 50% chance that a creator or intelligence is involved in evolution, and there is a 50% chance that a creator or intelligence isn't involved in evolution.
No there isn't.  There is no evidence that there is a creator involved at all so how could there possibly be a 50 percent chance?
If I see an unidentified flying object, I guess you could say it is either terrestrial or an alien.  It is not a 50% - 50% chance it is an alien or terrestrial, it is almost a 100% chance it is terrestrial.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #78 on: 25/02/2022 19:41:48 »
Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 19:29:08
That's what I thought you were saying, translation issue I suppose.
In simple terms I said that the atom makes the matter and that the evolution uses the matter to exist.

Quote from: Origin on 25/02/2022 19:29:08
No there isn't.  There is no evidence that there is a creator involved at all so how could there possibly be a 50 percent chance?
If I see an unidentified flying object, I guess you could say it is either terrestrial or an alien.  It is not a 50% - 50% chance it is an alien or terrestrial, it is almost a 100% chance it is terrestrial.
I agree.
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Re: Was the universe created by an intelligent entity rather than chance evolution?
« Reply #79 on: 25/02/2022 20:09:33 »
Just to understand:

Does this quote:
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 02:01:40
Quantum mechanics is the underlying reason and tool for the constitution of relativistic physics, and allows evolution to occur.

is different from:
Quote from: Kartazion on 25/02/2022 19:41:48
... the atom makes the matter and that the evolution uses the matter to exist.

?
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