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  4. Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
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Could quantum mechanics be wrong?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #20 on: 19/03/2024 14:56:00 »
"Absorbed by an electron" is one root of his many misconceptions.
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Offline McQueen (OP)

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #21 on: 19/03/2024 15:56:09 »
Quote from: Origin on 19/03/2024 12:31:32
You seemed to be saying a 500 nm photon is 'to big' to be absorbed by an electron, which is wrong and silly.  Perhaps I was mistaken about what you meant.  So is there some other reason you said, "How is this possible?"

Yes, 500 nm photon is nowhere near 5.6 billion times bigger, more like 168 million times bigger.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #22 on: 19/03/2024 16:21:08 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 19/03/2024 14:56:00
"Absorbed by an electron" is one root of his many misconceptions.


How does it supposed to be interpreted?
« Last Edit: 20/03/2024 01:55:44 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #23 on: 19/03/2024 17:51:23 »
Quote from: McQueen on 19/03/2024 15:56:09
Yes, 500 nm photon is nowhere near 5.6 billion times bigger, more like 168 million times bigger.
There is no such thing as a photon having a size of 500 nm.  A photon with a wave length of 500 nm is not 500 nm long.  I'm not sure where you got that idea but you should discard it as soon as possible
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #24 on: 20/03/2024 01:57:02 »
Quote from: Origin on 19/03/2024 17:51:23
A photon with a wave length of 500 nm is not 500 nm long.
How does it supposed to be interpreted?
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #25 on: 20/03/2024 13:54:29 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/03/2024 01:57:02
How does it supposed to be interpreted?
Photons have a frequency.  That frequency is the rate at which the magnetic and electric field of the photon oscillate from a maximum to a minimum and back to a maximum.  The higher the frequency the higher the energy carried by the photon.  A photon with a wave length of 500nm means the photon has a frequency of about 6 x 10^14 cycles per second.
Therefore this means when when a photon has traveled the distance of 500nm the magnetic and electric fields will have completed one cycle (such as a maximum to maximum).  So the wave length has absolutely nothing to do with the size or length of the photon, it only addresses the rate of the oscillating fields.
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Offline McQueen (OP)

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #26 on: 21/03/2024 02:09:52 »
Quote from: Origin on 19/03/2024 17:51:23
Quote from: McQueen on 19/03/2024 15:56:09
Yes, 500 nm photon is nowhere near 5.6 billion times bigger, more like 168 million times bigger.
There is no such thing as a photon having a size of 500 nm.  A photon with a wave length of 500 nm is not 500 nm long.  I'm not sure where you got that idea but you should discard it as soon as possible

Wavelength does seem to matter in certain situations, take the Faraday cage, but of course in Faraday's cage the currents just circulate on the skin of the metal, (i.e., they are offered an alternative pathway.). But in microwaves making the grid approximate the microwave size seems to work well. So I was just assuming that maybe  there was some correlation. Again, if  wave-length of a photon means the peak to peak measurement of the wave-form, couldn't it also be taken to mean the wave-length of the photon. Just asking?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #27 on: 21/03/2024 04:20:41 »
Quote from: Origin on 20/03/2024 13:54:29
That frequency is the rate at which the magnetic and electric field of the photon oscillate from a maximum to a minimum and back to a maximum.
FYI, circularly polarized light has a constant amplitude of electric field when propagating as a plane wave. Only the orientation rotates.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #28 on: 21/03/2024 11:08:08 »
Quote from: McQueen on 21/03/2024 02:09:52
Wavelength does seem to matter in certain situations
Sure wave length / frequency matters, it just has nothing to do with the size of a photon.  The wave length is about the oscillating magnetic and electric fields of the photon it has nothing to do with the size or length of a photon.
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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #29 on: 21/03/2024 11:10:11 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/03/2024 04:20:41
FYI, circularly polarized light has a constant amplitude of electric field when propagating as a plane wave. Only the orientation rotates.
Which has nothing to do with this discussion, please don't bring in unrelated topics just to confuse yourself.
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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #30 on: 21/03/2024 12:01:33 »
Quote from: McQueen on 18/03/2024 04:40:12
This, in spite of many illogicalities and oversights.
I get it, you don't like Quantum physics it's too weird.
Actually, you are in good company, most of the physicist who developed quantum mechanics didn't like it!  They kept scratcher their heads and saying this can't be right after each new discovery.  But if the theory matches the observations and makes accurate predictions then it must be explaining the phenomena correctly.
I think it is safe to say most physicist were 'kicking and screaming' as they were forced to accept the reality of quantum physics. 
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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #31 on: 21/03/2024 13:57:32 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/03/2024 01:57:02
How does it supposed to be interpreted?
You asked this question and I answered it.  As typical you then jumped to a new subject without acknowledging the answer provided.  So I'm just curious did you accept the answer or reject it?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #32 on: 24/03/2024 13:04:29 »
Quote from: Origin on 20/03/2024 13:54:29
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/03/2024 01:57:02
How does it supposed to be interpreted?
Photons have a frequency.  That frequency is the rate at which the magnetic and electric field of the photon oscillate from a maximum to a minimum and back to a maximum.  The higher the frequency the higher the energy carried by the photon.  A photon with a wave length of 500nm means the photon has a frequency of about 6 x 10^14 cycles per second.
Therefore this means when when a photon has traveled the distance of 500nm the magnetic and electric fields will have completed one cycle (such as a maximum to maximum).  So the wave length has absolutely nothing to do with the size or length of the photon, it only addresses the rate of the oscillating fields.
Light only travels at c through vacuum. In other media, it travels slower, and the wavelength reduced accordingly, with the same frequency. It does have something to do with length, as the name correctly suggests.
« Last Edit: 24/03/2024 13:07:49 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #33 on: 24/03/2024 16:05:57 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/03/2024 13:04:29
Light only travels at c through vacuum. In other media, it travels slower, and the wavelength reduced accordingly, with the same frequency. It does have something to do with length, as the name correctly suggests.
I contend that you are 100% wrong.   
Please supply any reputable source (not a youtube) that says the size of a photon has anything to do with the wave length of the photon.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #34 on: 25/03/2024 09:21:59 »
Quote from: Origin on 24/03/2024 16:05:57
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 24/03/2024 13:04:29
Light only travels at c through vacuum. In other media, it travels slower, and the wavelength reduced accordingly, with the same frequency. It does have something to do with length, as the name correctly suggests.
I contend that you are 100% wrong.   
Please supply any reputable source (not a youtube) that says the size of a photon has anything to do with the wave length of the photon.
You can do the experiment yourself. Don't depend too much on the authority.
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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #35 on: 25/03/2024 12:59:30 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/03/2024 09:21:59
You can do the experiment yourself.
So you couldn't find any citations that support your idea that the frequency of a photon's magnetic and electric fields somehow dictate it's size.  Imagine my surprise.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/03/2024 09:21:59
Don't depend too much on the authority.
Don't worry yourself, I don't.  I suppose you don't go to the doctor when your sick because that would be appealing to authority? ;D ::)
Why do you enjoy being complete confused about everything scientific?
What I wrote about the nonexistent relationship between a photon size and it's wavelength is correct.  I realize that if you accepted that it would decrease your confusion and I guess that would make you unhappy or something.  Odd.
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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #36 on: 25/03/2024 15:50:24 »
A photon doesn't have a size. It is a mathematical concept: an infinitesimal massless blob travelling at speed c with no other properties than energy and momentum.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #37 on: 27/03/2024 13:05:24 »
Quote from: Origin on 25/03/2024 12:59:30
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/03/2024 09:21:59
You can do the experiment yourself.
So you couldn't find any citations that support your idea that the frequency of a photon's magnetic and electric fields somehow dictate it's size.  Imagine my surprise.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/03/2024 09:21:59
Don't depend too much on the authority.
Don't worry yourself, I don't.  I suppose you don't go to the doctor when your sick because that would be appealing to authority? ;D ::)
Why do you enjoy being complete confused about everything scientific?
What I wrote about the nonexistent relationship between a photon size and it's wavelength is correct.  I realize that if you accepted that it would decrease your confusion and I guess that would make you unhappy or something.  Odd.
You can learn about metamaterials, and you'll find that their unit sizes depend on the wavelength of the light or electromagnetic wave.

If you imagine a photon of radio wave as a giant sized ball, then you will be confused by its implications. But experiments clearly show that wavelength of EM waves determines their size of influence in space. The difference is that you don't accept that size of influence to be called photon size.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #38 on: 27/03/2024 13:06:44 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 25/03/2024 15:50:24
A photon doesn't have a size. It is a mathematical concept: an infinitesimal massless blob travelling at speed c with no other properties than energy and momentum.
How does it interact with Faraday cages and metamaterials?
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Offline Origin

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Re: Could quantum mechanics be wrong?
« Reply #39 on: 27/03/2024 17:22:26 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/03/2024 13:05:24
But experiments clearly show that wavelength of EM waves determines their size of influence in space.
Great.  Could you please provide a link to one of these experiments?
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