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Quote from: CrazyScientist on 17/10/2021 15:02:47Yet, it's purpose wasn't to see if photons have potential energy, but to see if their kinetic energy will be altered due to influence of an external graviatational field.That's the same thing as measuring the gravitational potential energy of the photons. Kinetic energy doesn't come out of nowhere. If the kinetic energy of the photon is increased, that is because some of the potential energy it had has been transformed into kinetic energy. It's the exact same thing that happens when you drop a heavy object. Some of the heavy object's gravitational potential energy is transformed into kinetic energy as it accelerates.
Yet, it's purpose wasn't to see if photons have potential energy, but to see if their kinetic energy will be altered due to influence of an external graviatational field.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 17/10/2021 17:59:55To have potential energy, they would have to induce a force on a massive objects from distanceDue to conservation of momentum, we know that they do exactly that via gravity.
To have potential energy, they would have to induce a force on a massive objects from distance
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 17/10/2021 17:49:37Which also is kinetic (induces force)No.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
Which also is kinetic (induces force)
But to be clear: by "kinetic" i mean "capable of inducing a definitive change in energy state"
it comes from the kinetic energy of interacting massive body.
Is there any change in the energy state of a massive source, before the absorbtion/reflection of the photon it interacts with.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 17/10/2021 18:10:38it comes from the kinetic energy of interacting massive body.Citation needed.Quote from: CrazyScientist on 17/10/2021 18:38:07Is there any change in the energy state of a massive source, before the absorbtion/reflection of the photon it interacts with.Yes. The gravity of the photon pulls on the massive source, thus causing it to accelerate as well (very slightly).
Funny, how different answers are in contradiction to dach other.
On the second hand I can give you one simple explanation, why photons can't induce a gravitational pull on massive object - it's not possible since both photons and gravity propagate at Constantin speed of light - If you would be correct, gravity of photons would have to exceed the speed of light and recent experiments show that it's not the case...
It depends, how you define "pseudoscience". For me, pseudoscience is everything, what tries to look like science, while being experimentally disproven or being beyond any kind of practical verification.
why photons can't induce a gravitational pull on massive object
If you would be correct, gravity of photons would have to exceed the speed of light and recent experiments show that it's not the case...
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 09:05:57On the second hand I can give you one simple explanation, why photons can't induce a gravitational pull on massive object - it's not possible since both photons and gravity propagate at Constantin speed of light - If you would be correct, gravity of photons would have to exceed the speed of light and recent experiments show that it's not the case...That is the wrong conclusion. If we used your conclusion for sound that would mean that if a jet flew by you at 343 m/s, since that is also the speed of sound, then you would never hear the jet. That doesn't seem right, does it?
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 09:05:57why photons can't induce a gravitational pull on massive objectWe know for a fact that they do. Gravitational lensing occurs when a massive object's gravity pulls on light. That changes the momentum of the light. In order for conservation of momentum to be satisfied, the light must also pull on the massive object.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 09:05:57If you would be correct, gravity of photons would have to exceed the speed of light and recent experiments show that it's not the case...Gravity doesn't travel. It's only changes in a gravitational field that travel at the speed of light.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 17/10/2021 18:45:27But to be clear: by "kinetic" i mean "capable of inducing a definitive change in energy state"So when you say kinetic energy, you don't mean kinetic energy??!
Kinetic force applies work on a body, increasing it's kinetic evergy.
Ok, here's an interesting question - what will happen, if we take a body of rest mass m and and use energy equivalent to that mass (or greater) to accelerate it?
Will you be able to see light emitted by a source incoming at 100% c?
So, it should be ok to tell, that gravity just like the light light propagates at c.
Explain me the mechanism that allows the interaction between distant sources of light/gravity movig towards each other at c.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 21:58:18Kinetic force applies work on a body, increasing it's kinetic evergy.Nice try. Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 21:58:18Ok, here's an interesting question - what will happen, if we take a body of rest mass m and and use energy equivalent to that mass (or greater) to accelerate it?In physics we use a force to accelerate a mass.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 21:46:09So, it should be ok to tell, that gravity just like the light light propagates at c.The change in gravity is what propagates at c.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 21:46:09Explain me the mechanism that allows the interaction between distant sources of light/gravity movig towards each other at c.Gravitational lensing doesn't happen that way. It only occurs when the light is moving at an angle to the massive object, not directly towards or away from it.
thus obejcts moving at relative speed of c can't interact with each other at distance
Then what about gravitational redshift of massive light sources?
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 23/10/2021 17:24:00thus obejcts moving at relative speed of c can't interact with each other at distanceThe photon will still interact with the gravitational field as it moves through it (resulting in red shift or blue shift). The reaction of the massive source will just be delayed until the change in the photon's gravitational field reaches it.Quote from: CrazyScientist on 23/10/2021 17:24:00Then what about gravitational redshift of massive light sources?That wouldn't be gravitational lensing. The photon is still interacting with the gravitational field as it passes through it. That's what causes the red shift.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 18/10/2021 21:46:09Will you be able to see light emitted by a source incoming at 100% c?No such source can exist.